Sharks Pathways 2023 (Newtown, De La Salle, Flegg, SG Ball, etc.)

[Tiger Shark]

Some interesting comments/insights from Gus on his latest podcast about player development. A Bulldogs fan asked why there has been so much chopping and changing in the lower grades. Gus said that a lot of it is deliberate, and they are constantly re-assessing where the best place is for every single player who is in their system. He said the system is not there to win footy games, but is there to develop NRL talent, and sometimes it can be beneficial for certain players to go up, down, change positions etc.

He said that this is how it worked for him at both the Roosters and Panthers, and now at the Bulldogs. Different club, but this should provide a bit of relief to the "Sharks obviously don't have control over Newtown because they keep moving blokes around" crew.

That’s personally how I’ve always seen it. If we can get a first grader or so out of each year and identify talent that’s the goal, but be nice to be successful too, makes it easier to enjoy.

I’ve never believed we didn’t have control for a second , they wouldn’t do it otherwise.

 

[Born&bred]

Some interesting comments/insights from Gus on his latest podcast about player development. A Bulldogs fan asked why there has been so much chopping and changing in the lower grades. Gus said that a lot of it is deliberate, and they are constantly re-assessing where the best place is for every single player who is in their system. He said the system is not there to win footy games, but is there to develop NRL talent, and sometimes it can be beneficial for certain players to go up, down, change positions etc.

He said that this is how it worked for him at both the Roosters and Panthers, and now at the Bulldogs. Different club, but this should provide a bit of relief to the "Sharks obviously don't have control over Newtown because they keep moving blokes around" crew.

How so? Those clubs have full control of their NSW cup squads don't they?

 

[BurgoShark]

How so? Those clubs have full control of their NSW cup squads don't they?

This is first hand evidence that chopping/changing in lower grades and not having guys playing where fans want them to is not an indicator of the NRL team not having full control. It's considered normal even for teams who fully fund their own feeders.

This doesn't mean that the Sharks do have full control, but it means that the reason people think they don't is not valid.

 

[Born&bred]

This is first hand evidence that chopping/changing in lower grades and not having guys playing where fans want them to is not an indicator of the NRL team not having full control. It's considered normal even for teams who fully fund their own feeders.

This doesn't mean that the Sharks do have full control, but it means that the reason people think they don't is not valid.

That's a contradiction - What you say above means Sharks may not have full control, so how can the reason people believe they don't be invalid?

 

[BurgoShark]

That's a contradiction - What you say above means Sharks may not have full control, so how can the reason people believe they don't be invalid?

Not a contradiction, but maybe my grammar was a bit poor there. It means this reason is invalid. Not all reasons.

Sharks may or may not have full control. This particular argument is not evidence of either.

People can also believe a true thing but have an invalid argument as to why. E.g. my wife loves me because I have a huge penis.

 

[Born&bred]

Not a contradiction, but maybe my grammar was a bit poor there. It means this reason is invalid. Not all reasons.

Sharks may or may not have full control. This particular argument is not evidence of either.

People can also believe a true thing but have an invalid argument as to why. E.g. my wife loves me because I have a huge penis.

Ok - explain what "this reason" is exactly, and how it is invalid? There is nothing you've said that could counter the belief that the Sharks don't have control of the Jets?

 

[BurgoShark]

Ok - explain what "this reason" is exactly, and how it is invalid?

Chopping and changing, players being moved around between positions, playing less minutes, new positions, being shuffled up and down between Flegg, 3rd grade, NRL etc.

A current and former NRL club boss has said that this is standard practice in the NRL for teams with full control of their players while they are with their feeder team.

It's not a valid argument to say that because this shuffling happens at the Jets, it means that the Sharks have less control of their players than other teams like Penrith/Bulldogs etc. who have full control of their feeder team operations.

There is nothing you've said that could counter the belief that the Sharks don't have control of the Jets?

Correct. All we have done here is eradicate one myth. All it does is brings us back to "we don't actually know" whether they have control** or not.

** control of their own players when they are with the Jets that is. I don't think anyone believes the Sharks have control of the Jets.

 

[Wilson]

I wouldn’t exactly call it myth busted, it’s not necessarily the bottom line because Gus Gould said so.

It’s a great insight for sure, but not a definitive insight to what’s happening between the Jets and the Sharks.

 

[Born&bred]

Chopping and changing, players being moved around between positions, playing less minutes, new positions, being shuffled up and down between Flegg, 3rd grade, NRL etc.

A current and former NRL club boss has said that this is standard practice in the NRL for teams with full control of their players while they are with their feeder team.

It's not a valid argument to say that because this shuffling happens at the Jets, it means that the Sharks have less control of their players than other teams like Penrith/Bulldogs etc. who have full control of their feeder team operations.


Correct. All we have done here is eradicate one myth. All it does is brings us back to "we don't actually know" whether they have control** or not.

** control of their own players when they are with the Jets that is. I don't think anyone believes the Sharks have control of the Jets.

So after all that diatribe, if you "don't think anyone believes the Sharks have control of the Jets" my point still stands - How Roosters & Panthers manage their nsw cup teams is not a like for like comparison to how the Sharks do.

 

[MrDravid]

I wouldn’t exactly call it myth busted, it’s not necessarily the bottom line because Gus Gould said so.

It’s a great insight for sure, but not a definitive insight to what’s happening between the Jets and the Sharks.

Perfect example is Tracey... Dykes goes down in preseason, Tracey puts hand up to understudy Kennedy, Tracey spends plenty of time at fullback for the Jets.

 

[bort]

Person 1: It would be better if the sharks had their own reserve team because they don’t have any control as it is - I can tell because they pick players in a different spot than I would

Burgess: Gould confirmed other teams who do run their own reserve still move people around quite a bit but it’s to suit future NRL needs

Person 1: Yeah but just because other teams do it I still think Jets move people against the Sharks wishes

Meanwhile Fitz has Tracey, his backup fullback playing Cup exclusively at 1, Trindall his 6 in waiting playing at 6 and his emergency edge player Colquhoun playing Cup there

Has Burgess overwhelmingly proven Sharks have full control? No
Does other evidence strongly support Sharks have at least enough say? I’d say yes

 

[BurgoShark]

I wouldn’t exactly call it myth busted, it’s not necessarily the bottom line because Gus Gould said so.

It’s a great insight for sure, but not a definitive insight to what’s happening between the Jets and the Sharks.

He’s enough of an authority for me.

Not sure how many other ways I can say that this means we don’t know.

So after all that diatribe, if you "don't think anyone believes the Sharks have control of the Jets" my point still stands - How Roosters & Panthers manage their nsw cup teams is not a like for like comparison to how the Sharks do.

Not the point I was even discussing. I was only addressing control of players.

Person 1: It would be better if the sharks had their own reserve team because they don’t have any control as it is - I can tell because they pick players in a different spot than I would

Burgess: Gould confirmed other teams who do run their own reserve still move people around quite a bit but it’s to suit future NRL needs

Person 1: Yeah but just because other teams do it I still think Jets move people against the Sharks wishes

Meanwhile Fitz has Tracey, his backup fullback playing Cup exclusively at 1, Trindall his 6 in waiting playing at 6 and his emergency edge player Colquhoun playing Cup there

Has Burgess overwhelmingly proven Sharks have full control? No
Does other evidence strongly support Sharks have at least enough say? I’d say yes

I wasn’t even trying to prove anything. All I was saying is that fans shouldn’t worry if players move around a bit on the Jets, because it might actually be the Sharks’ decision.

 

[Wilson]

Person 1: It would be better if the sharks had their own reserve team because they don’t have any control as it is - I can tell because they pick players in a different spot than I would

Burgess: Gould confirmed other teams who do run their own reserve still move people around quite a bit but it’s to suit future NRL needs

Person 1: Yeah but just because other teams do it I still think Jets move people against the Sharks wishes

Meanwhile Fitz has Tracey, his backup fullback playing Cup exclusively at 1, Trindall his 6 in waiting playing at 6 and his emergency edge player Colquhoun playing Cup there

Has Burgess overwhelmingly proven Sharks have full control? No
Does other evidence strongly support Sharks have at least enough say? I’d say yes

Colquhoun played an abundance of middle.

 

[bort]

I wasn’t even trying to prove anything. All I was saying is that fans shouldn’t worry if players move around a bit on the Jets, because that’s how it happens on teams who have full

Yeah I got it, just pointing out (in a convoluted way) we have players playing exactly where Fitz would want them

 

[BurgoShark]

Colquhoun played an abundance of middle.

Was about 50/50 last year.

Just twos games this year in the second row though.

I reckon it is more about minutes than position with him.

 

[Sevshark]

Person 1: It would be better if the sharks had their own reserve team because they don’t have any control as it is - I can tell because they pick players in a different spot than I would

Burgess: Gould confirmed other teams who do run their own reserve still move people around quite a bit but it’s to suit future NRL needs

Person 1: Yeah but just because other teams do it I still think Jets move people against the Sharks wishes

Meanwhile Fitz has Tracey, his backup fullback playing Cup exclusively at 1, Trindall his 6 in waiting playing at 6 and his emergency edge player Colquhoun playing Cup there

Has Burgess overwhelmingly proven Sharks have full control? No
Does other evidence strongly support Sharks have at least enough say? I’d say yes

Jesse C started in the middle in close to every game for Newtown. Their backrow was Newtown contracts all year.

I've really grown to love the jets over the course of the agreement but would prefer our own NSW cup team. Has nothing to do with who controls the team, I don't even care if they're winning comps there much like Gus.

I'd rather we be focusing on developing our own players, any cup contracts are players we give a shot, not these dregs at Newtown.

 

[Sevshark]

Anyone feel welcome to try convincing me Johnny Lee Garbage would get picked by cronulla over anyone else coming through our system.

 

[BurgoShark]

Jesse C started in the middle in close to every game for Newtown. Their backrow was Newtown contracts all year.

I've really grown to love the jets over the course of the agreement but would prefer our own NSW cup team. Has nothing to do with who controls the team, I don't even care if they're winning comps there much like Gus.

I'd rather we be focusing on developing our own players, any cup contracts are players we give a shot, not these dregs at Newtown.

The dregs like Will Kennedy?

The Jets provide a pathway for Sharks players who age out of Flegg but don’t get an NRL contract.

There were just 5 players in the Jets team on the weekend who are not on a Sharks contract of some kind, and 4 came from the Sharks system. Wouldn’t the Dogs/Roosters/Panthers etc. still have a similar bunch of blokes on NSW Cup contracts anyway? Not much difference really.

 

[BurgoShark]

Anyone feel welcome to try convincing me Johnny Lee Garbage would get picked by cronulla over anyone else coming through our system.

He was 18th man on the weekend. They brought up Waitere.

Is JLG the new Isaac Longmuir?

 

[Sevshark]

He was 18th man on the weekend. They brought up Waitere.

Was on the bench the week before and started in the halves in at least one game this year. Again rather see someone from flegg come up

As for Will? If we had our own cup team that problem doesn't exist.