Our defence

[dylan the villian]

BORKED? What's that mean? Is it taboo to post videos here?

Anyway, the defence.

The major fault in the defence last week wasn't the line speed. It was the ruck. The Dragons poured through at will 1-2 meters wide of the play the ball. For those at the game you surely must of seen how many times we had only one or even no markers. Blokes were lolling around on the ground unable to get up and into position. I put this down to the new ruck interpretations.

As was noted in the 2012 explanation of our defence by Sharp the Sharks have been known for their wrestle. As bad or nearly as good as Melbourne. There seems to be some legacy left from that and our tacklers lack recovery speed IMO. They are used to lying about and wrestling and not getting on with it and into position.

When that gets better perhaps some line speed will come into play but if they move up fast now, with the ruck defence a shambles other teams will be able to pick their own score.

borked means you cant watch the vid, usually happens on my phone, was the clip of the superset against the dragons in 2011

 

[Frenzy]

borked means you cant watch the vid, usually happens on my phone, was the clip of the superset against the dragons in 2011

OK. I knew what it was. I posted it LOL

 

[dylan the villian]

ha rodger, i didnt check that haha

 

[sharks2010]

What a muppet

 

[A.Snowden]

2011

That set was awesome. But come from enthusiasm.Those plays can change a game.

 

[dylan the villian]

What a muppet

pipe down gringo

 

[ABshark]

That post by Newman is probably the most interesting I've read on a forum. Great info.

Personally, I wasn't surprised that we got rolled through the middle by the Dragons. They've got some big, mobile blokes in Merrin, Creagh, Hunt etc, and we're really missing Gibbs and Smith. Gibbs is probably our best marker defender outside of Gal as well as leading the line speed in the middle and wrestling well.

I'm a big fan of his and I think he has something to offer, but I think Ben Ross is struggling a but with the pace of the game this year. He doesn't work out of marker so well and he's looking a bit slow as he gets up. Hopefully a move to the bench will suit him once Gibbs is back.

Conversely, Fifita made a heap of tackles (49?) last week, mostly out of marker I reckon.

And for the baggers of our hookers, especially of de Gois: one of the main things he brings to the table is great linespeed and aggression. When he's going well, the Sharks are going well.

Also, it bears remembering that the team has only had two/three tries run through them so far. And they've turned over a heap of ball at that, so there haven't been a shortage of opportunities.

Aside from the ASADA stuff, there's plenty to be optimistic about this year.

 

[BlackWhiteBlue]

i think, like most years, our defence is our strongest point.

weeks 1 and 2, we let in 2 tries a piece, week 3, 1 soft one. week 4, 4 tries, and Sowards was off an error at our end.

Our defence has been pretty friggen good to be honest. Look at other games, Tigers put 30 points on the Eels, but still allow 3 or 4 tries in.

Teams that can score heaps of points cant always hold a team out aswell. Even if we are only putting 3 tries a game on, if we only let in 2 we still win. We need to average 18-20 points, and allow no more than 12 points average a game.

 

[Gards]

That set was awesome. But come from enthusiasm.Those plays can change a game.

Funny how we wouldn't have seen that set if Toops hadn't messed up the offload.

i think, like most years, our defence is our strongest point.

weeks 1 and 2, we let in 2 tries a piece, week 3, 1 soft one. week 4, 4 tries, and Sowards was off an error at our end.

Our defence has been pretty friggen good to be honest. Look at other games, Tigers put 30 points on the Eels, but still allow 3 or 4 tries in.

Teams that can score heaps of points cant always hold a team out aswell. Even if we are only putting 3 tries a game on, if we only let in 2 we still win. We need to average 18-20 points, and allow no more than 12 points average a game.

Hear what your saying but the problem is how is this team going to start averaging 20 points per game? We only seem to have 2 tries in us alot of games and if we don't get that third or let in one more try than we would like there is little margin for error in winning the game. Hence the high blood pressure for fans. My other problem is that some games we don't turn up to, like the Dragons game and our ability to limit a team to say 2 tries in a game is blown out of the water. I truly hope this is the exception this year and not the rule. The Sharks need to get used to playing in big games with big crowds and delivering the goods.

The Sharks need to pile on the points when there opportunities are there. And every game we have a stack of them. That way if our defense does falter we have some buffer.

 

[Timmyb22]

Just read the last three pages again and alot of posts are about up and in defence, up and in defence is only beneficial for the truly smart positional players so everyone whos saying it is a bad idea is correct,

i mean in the forwards i dont think its much of an issue but when a dumb player like pom rushes up by himself it creates all sorts of havoc,

a backline is no place for a dumb player to rush up and in, we just dont have the personnel out there to cover it, at least this year if pom or anyone does that gordon is a freak at one on ones but still!

the team needs to move up as a unit, if they move up as a unit this cuts down opposition momentum and also provides very few gaps for opposition players,

when allowing players alot of metres run up it increases the chances of less sound defensive players to miss tackles

that article about why we dont move up was a great insight, but to be honest we now have way more explosive personnel, lewis, fifita, graham, and to say gal is not explosive is rediculous the man is very powerful,
then if u look at heighington this year his stats are near gals in term of metres made per hit up, he makes alot of extra meteres after contact, like gibbs does

now in terms of our being slow around the ruck, i reckon faster line speed would allow us to lessen the degree of metres other teams make even if we were to be a bit slow off the mark, less metres made is less metres made,

it also means once their player is tackled the dummy half has less time to take advantage of our sloppy ruck

ultimately i think if our team moves up as a unit weve got big enough and strong enough personnel to nulify alot more attack than we do, i mean ive seen when we do move up quickly as a unit and its an incredible defensive display

last little point if we allow teams like melbourne up our end that easily they have crazy set plays that will rape us

i know we have done well against them in the past but think how well we could do if they dont get up the other end

by posting this i am just trying to think as logically as i can, it is just my opinion

 

[Thresher]

i think, like most years, our defence is our strongest point.

weeks 1 and 2, we let in 2 tries a piece, week 3, 1 soft one. week 4, 4 tries, and Sowards was off an error at our end.

Our defence has been pretty friggen good to be honest. Look at other games, Tigers put 30 points on the Eels, but still allow 3 or 4 tries in.

Teams that can score heaps of points cant always hold a team out aswell. Even if we are only putting 3 tries a game on, if we only let in 2 we still win. We need to average 18-20 points, and allow no more than 12 points average a game.

Good points BWB.

The other thing to take into consideration is our field position when we get the ball.

If we're letting in hardly any tries that's great but if our stationary defence means that when we get the ball we have to start our set on our own try line we're going to end up with less attacking plays up the other end and score less tries as a result.

Bit of a Catch 22

 

[Mark^Bastard]

The point with Melbourne is that they're at their best when they exploit up and in defence. They ball play before the line and catch defenders out. When we defend them they don't get that opportunity and it seems to leave them without any other ideas (other than some flukey plays like what saw them win last time we played down there).

Even the bee-sting head recognised this and said that Queensland could be contained in the same way, that the Sharks had laid a blueprint for NSW. That's a big call from him as he never has anything nice to say about the Sharks.

 

[Thresher]

I'll be interested to see if Wests try to exploit Melbourne's up and in defence like the Broncos did last week, the long cut out pass to the wing seemed to really have them stuffed

 

[endevour]

I'll be interested to see if Wests try to exploit Melbourne's up and in defence like the Broncos did last week, the long cut out pass to the wing seemed to really have them stuffed

I think next week against Manly we will really see how good we are in the forwards and backs defencivly. Last night Manly really used the up and in your face style .

It cuts down your think time and can kill your confidence they make sure they always have 3 hitting you hard not just grabbing at jumpers.

It is possible we concede a meter or so when we defend and that can have cumulative effect. Gibbsy does help our defence and so did Smith.

Lets hope we get it right tonight.

Go the Sharkies

 

[Thresher]

I didn't mean the up and in your face endevour, meant the wingers fly up on the outside in defence making a kind of inverted umbrella, and then they move in-field. It's like surrounding the attack and throwing a net over them. It generally works really well but some accurate long passing last week found a few holes in the theory

 

[endevour]

I didn't mean the up and in your face endevour, meant the wingers fly up on the outside in defence making a kind of inverted umbrella, and then they move in-field. It's like surrounding the attack and throwing a net over them. It generally works really well but some accurate long passing last week found a few holes in the theory

Hi Thresher I know what you mean the old umberall defence has been around awhile the Poms introduced may years ago it worked then and it still works now if done properly.

And so does particularly in the forwards up quickly off your line and in their face in groups of 3 and putting them on the deck. it also works very well if done properly.

i get the feeling we are not on song with a lot of what we do. We no doubt loose a lot of direction and structure ,without Carney and no doubt this other issue hanging around is bound to take the edge of what we do.

 

[Timmyb22]

just read a article on nrl.com saying we have second highest metres gained in attack

but we get the second most metres ran against us, proof our not moving up in the defensive line as a unit is costing us.

i just dont understand it, shouldnt top coaches wanna do something about this especially a team that used to pride itself on its defence

 

[Gards]

Top Coaches yes - Flanno who knows what he is thinking sometimes though. It seems the things that have actually worked quite well for us under his watch he is abandoning... Take a look at our home game against Storm last year, if we had that structure and game plan put permanently in place with our roster we would win more games than lose. I don't know what he's going for at the moment but it looks a mess

 

[ABshark]

just read a article on nrl.com saying we have second highest metres gained in attack

but we get the second most metres ran against us, proof our not moving up in the defensive line as a unit is costing us.

i just dont understand it, shouldnt top coaches wanna do something about this especially a team that used to pride itself on its defence

Its a fair point, but we've also only had the equal second fewest points scored against us: 66. That's equal with the Roosters and better than Melbourne, amongst others. (Probably with a game in hand over the Roosters/Dogs/Broncs/Cowboys but still). http://www.nrl.com/TelstraPremiership/NRLLadder/tabid/10251/Default.aspx

A lot of the tries that have been scored against us have been from kicks too. (Including both tries by Souths, who have been scoring pretty freely against everyone else).

My feeling is this: this season isn't over. Giving up wins against some of the weaker sides could come back to bite us, but the talent is there and the boys are playing with plenty of ticker. The faster ruck and better ruck defense is a challenge, but if this ASADA stuff can be put to bed, I really reckon we're in this.

Top Coaches yes - Flanno who knows what he is thinking sometimes though. It seems the things that have actually worked quite well for us under his watch he is abandoning... Take a look at our home game against Storm last year, if we had that structure and game plan put permanently in place with our roster we would win more games than lose. I don't know what he's going for at the moment but it looks a mess

Flano acknowledged this in his interview with the ABC last week. They're aware.

I can only put it down to one thing: preparation.

 

[Gards]

Flano acknowledged this in his interview with the ABC last week. They're aware.

I can only put it down to one thing: preparation.

Interesting, cause lack of preparation or not it doesn't look like we are even trying to implement this structure.
Even in the back end of last season the team had moved away from it so it must be more than just preparation...