PMQ_Tony
Tiger Shark
Sorry Rob but I don't think that I understand your question.
My point is that u need to look at where u have been to see where u r going and hope to see ur moving forward. Our team is not.
The Blame Game
- Thread starter PMQ_Tony
- Start date
Sorry Rob but I don't think that I understand your question.
My point is that u need to look at where u have been to see where u r going and hope to see ur moving forward. Our team is not.
oozy
Grey Nurse
jersey.Great White Shark
Hammerhead
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
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- 302
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- 4
Problems: Player confidence at rock bottom, coaching staff that just does not cut it (Ricky's win/loss is second worst in club history, and that was 40 years ago) - sorry, that's a fact, diabolical recruitment (no need to run through the list!!!), questionable administration (certainly given last year), etc, etc.
Solutions: can't stand supporters saying "all we can do is turn up to games, support the club and hope things turn around". Professional sport is not a game of hope, it is built on skill and thought. We need to stop settling for mediocrity. I have been a member for many years and we are in a period of mediocrity. I would prefer it that Ricky comes out and says 'we just dont have the resources other clubs have in order to compete". But no one says it becasue the truth is we are just an underperforming team. When club meetings occur we need to start voicing opinions and demanding better. Look at the cluture at the Storm, Broncs, Manly (look at Hasler when the team loses!!). We have lost 30 of our last 35 games (and by the end of this season that stat will probably be 44 of 52)....what the f#$.....and we'll keep singing the same tune.
It is pathetic.
Solutions: can't stand supporters saying "all we can do is turn up to games, support the club and hope things turn around". Professional sport is not a game of hope, it is built on skill and thought. We need to stop settling for mediocrity. I have been a member for many years and we are in a period of mediocrity. I would prefer it that Ricky comes out and says 'we just dont have the resources other clubs have in order to compete". But no one says it becasue the truth is we are just an underperforming team. When club meetings occur we need to start voicing opinions and demanding better. Look at the cluture at the Storm, Broncs, Manly (look at Hasler when the team loses!!). We have lost 30 of our last 35 games (and by the end of this season that stat will probably be 44 of 52)....what the f#$.....and we'll keep singing the same tune.
It is pathetic.
I get ya, i misunderstood what you said in the first place. :good:
Great White Shark
Hammerhead
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Another note on mediocrity. Look at our board and administration. It took a major sex scandal, a CEO that was caught with his hand in many cookie jars, sponsor dissatisfaction, major player issues (to the point that Paul Gallen wanted out) and near receivership/administration for our Board and administration to stand down. Issues of solvancy develop over many years, through many poor decisions. In a normal business/club someone would have already been up in arms...but not at Shark Headquarters. Because there is no accountability at the sharks. It is not abour fault but rather responsiblity and accountability to members/sponsors/fans etc. When you are on a board certain things occur which may be he fault of others, but ultimately it is YOUR responsiblity (irrespective of fault).
Same with Ricky. I know it is a sensitive issue but a first grade, professional coach can not stand behind a record of 5 and 30 and not have massive pressure on him to resign. Irrespective of fault he needs to put his hand up and accept responsiblity. I dont think it is his fault but he certainly is responsible. And as a club we need to make it clear to all our main poeple that responsiblity and accountability is demanded....Ricky himslef needs to resign so that a message is sent to all that 5 and 30 is just not good enough at shark park.....just like a receivership is not either.
Same with Ricky. I know it is a sensitive issue but a first grade, professional coach can not stand behind a record of 5 and 30 and not have massive pressure on him to resign. Irrespective of fault he needs to put his hand up and accept responsiblity. I dont think it is his fault but he certainly is responsible. And as a club we need to make it clear to all our main poeple that responsiblity and accountability is demanded....Ricky himslef needs to resign so that a message is sent to all that 5 and 30 is just not good enough at shark park.....just like a receivership is not either.
peachey
One of a kind
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the day Chris Anderson walked into the club and said he wanted to change the clubs culture..well he succeeded, we went from winning to losing
The Answers
How many wins have we had since 67? How many losses?
Anyone know? Does it matter?
I honestly believe we're on the way up.
Raper was a horrible coach, and Zappia a horrible administrator. Kimmorley wasn't a great captain for that matter. Our juniors were getting flogged. I used to get embarrassed cos I knew when we got a try behind we wouldn't just lose, we'd likely lose by thirty plus.
Now we have a Shire man in Fisk, and the jury's probably still out, but he seems to be going okay. Whatever people's complaints about Stuart, at the very least he has instilled a culture of resilience and hard work (not so evident today admittedly) that wasn't there when Parra thrashed us 70 a few years ago. Our captain next year will be Gal or Doug and I don't think anyone would begrudge that. We've got some really talented juniors in Ferg, Wright, Stapo, Kelly, Vave, Mannah, Mills, Gardner, O'Donnell, Peachey and Townsend. It even appears we've got a NRL quality halfback.
We're rebuilding. At the start of the year I thought we'd end up in 12th with a few late wins, cos we didn't have a halfback, we were a quality prop short and we lacked a gun fullback. We've solved one of those issues, but the others are still there.
Where to from here? Concentrate, for rest of the season, on ingraining the basics in this new team, like Bennett has done with the Dragons recently and like Hasler did at the Eagles a few years ago. Work on the basics- making safe metres up the middle third of the field, kick well, chase well, defend systematically and as a unit, be clinical with our wrestling in the ruck, spread the ball and run with depth when we're in their half and use our offloads tactically to break down the defence. i think we worry too much about the result atm- not surprising given we haven't been winning. Obviously the result is what counts, but we need to just focus on execution for a full 80 minutes.
In attack, I think we're more similar to Manly than anyone else, and we could really learn from them. They back up the ball brilliantly- look at Perry's try today. They hit the ball at pace and on angles when they attack the line and their wingers are finishers first and foremost. Most of all, they focus on getting into position with tough, hard, but clever work by four big props running off their hooker, before they start flipping the ball around. Apparently Des Hasler's instructions at half time today- "Just keep streaming up the middle." We can do that- Aiton and Ballin aren't disimilar players IMO, but we need to focus on it and get some more metre-makers in that side so Doug and Snow don't shoulder so much of the work. Hopefully Mannah will make it back sooner rather than later.
I loathe them more than any other club, but I like Manly's attitude to the game too- I spose its Hasler's really. They aim to play tough and aggressive football for 80 minutes. That's fast moving, hard hitting defence that shuts down the opposition's time and tries to win ground each tackle. Like we do at our best, but I think they focus more on the .
They're the same with the ball. They've got those big blokes that bend you back up the middle, and then they spread the ball with reasonably simple plays that hit their outside men at pace and with more fierce runs. When they break the line, there's always blokes backing up.
In short they're at you for the whole 80 minutes. Relentless, but built on great disclipine.
How many wins have we had since 67? How many losses?
Anyone know? Does it matter?
I honestly believe we're on the way up.
Raper was a horrible coach, and Zappia a horrible administrator. Kimmorley wasn't a great captain for that matter. Our juniors were getting flogged. I used to get embarrassed cos I knew when we got a try behind we wouldn't just lose, we'd likely lose by thirty plus.
Now we have a Shire man in Fisk, and the jury's probably still out, but he seems to be going okay. Whatever people's complaints about Stuart, at the very least he has instilled a culture of resilience and hard work (not so evident today admittedly) that wasn't there when Parra thrashed us 70 a few years ago. Our captain next year will be Gal or Doug and I don't think anyone would begrudge that. We've got some really talented juniors in Ferg, Wright, Stapo, Kelly, Vave, Mannah, Mills, Gardner, O'Donnell, Peachey and Townsend. It even appears we've got a NRL quality halfback.
We're rebuilding. At the start of the year I thought we'd end up in 12th with a few late wins, cos we didn't have a halfback, we were a quality prop short and we lacked a gun fullback. We've solved one of those issues, but the others are still there.
Where to from here? Concentrate, for rest of the season, on ingraining the basics in this new team, like Bennett has done with the Dragons recently and like Hasler did at the Eagles a few years ago. Work on the basics- making safe metres up the middle third of the field, kick well, chase well, defend systematically and as a unit, be clinical with our wrestling in the ruck, spread the ball and run with depth when we're in their half and use our offloads tactically to break down the defence. i think we worry too much about the result atm- not surprising given we haven't been winning. Obviously the result is what counts, but we need to just focus on execution for a full 80 minutes.
In attack, I think we're more similar to Manly than anyone else, and we could really learn from them. They back up the ball brilliantly- look at Perry's try today. They hit the ball at pace and on angles when they attack the line and their wingers are finishers first and foremost. Most of all, they focus on getting into position with tough, hard, but clever work by four big props running off their hooker, before they start flipping the ball around. Apparently Des Hasler's instructions at half time today- "Just keep streaming up the middle." We can do that- Aiton and Ballin aren't disimilar players IMO, but we need to focus on it and get some more metre-makers in that side so Doug and Snow don't shoulder so much of the work. Hopefully Mannah will make it back sooner rather than later.
I loathe them more than any other club, but I like Manly's attitude to the game too- I spose its Hasler's really. They aim to play tough and aggressive football for 80 minutes. That's fast moving, hard hitting defence that shuts down the opposition's time and tries to win ground each tackle. Like we do at our best, but I think they focus more on the .
They're the same with the ball. They've got those big blokes that bend you back up the middle, and then they spread the ball with reasonably simple plays that hit their outside men at pace and with more fierce runs. When they break the line, there's always blokes backing up.
In short they're at you for the whole 80 minutes. Relentless, but built on great disclipine.
SharkBoy
Great White
I don't know what started the down fall but I'm pretty sure Bird's exit had a bit to do with it... I mean the stats say it all. But one guy shouldn't make a difference, and it's been a while now since we left, surely they've gotten over it.
How we fix it? Well that's anybody's guess. I'm at a loss. I'm a passionate supporter, I'm frustrated, and I think I've wanted everything from Stuart to be sacked, to Stuart keeping his job within the same week. Things have to happen but I don't know what. I'm sure Sticky is doing his best; he's not trying to sabbotage the club, maybe he needs help from the outside, which he's too proud to accept. If we need changes, what changes are they? The club's turnover in players is one of the highest in the NRL, so do we keep blooding new players week in and week out and hope for the best? I think they're sticking with what they think is best. Obviously they are otherwise they'd change it. All I can do as a supporter is support the club, as I've done for the past 22 years. It's bloody hard, but what else am I going to do? Support the Eagles or the Dragqueens? I think not.
Time for another scotch.
How we fix it? Well that's anybody's guess. I'm at a loss. I'm a passionate supporter, I'm frustrated, and I think I've wanted everything from Stuart to be sacked, to Stuart keeping his job within the same week. Things have to happen but I don't know what. I'm sure Sticky is doing his best; he's not trying to sabbotage the club, maybe he needs help from the outside, which he's too proud to accept. If we need changes, what changes are they? The club's turnover in players is one of the highest in the NRL, so do we keep blooding new players week in and week out and hope for the best? I think they're sticking with what they think is best. Obviously they are otherwise they'd change it. All I can do as a supporter is support the club, as I've done for the past 22 years. It's bloody hard, but what else am I going to do? Support the Eagles or the Dragqueens? I think not.
Time for another scotch.
Ibanez
Great White
Our boys CAN play. Our coach CAN coach. Our juniors CAN step up...
BUT ...we have had an unusually bad run with injuries which seems like a long mock, but is cyclical in clubs and WILL be overcome because the boys are being placed in the best care and rehab. We have had a terrible run with admin because we placed our trust in people that didnt deserve it. I BELIEVE that the team is now in the best possible hands and has the best squad of boys to GO FORWARD. WE just have to maintain the rage and BELIEVE in them when all else fails. If we don't believe in these guys, we can't ask them to believe in themselves!
BUT ...we have had an unusually bad run with injuries which seems like a long mock, but is cyclical in clubs and WILL be overcome because the boys are being placed in the best care and rehab. We have had a terrible run with admin because we placed our trust in people that didnt deserve it. I BELIEVE that the team is now in the best possible hands and has the best squad of boys to GO FORWARD. WE just have to maintain the rage and BELIEVE in them when all else fails. If we don't believe in these guys, we can't ask them to believe in themselves!
With two of our four kids sick as dogs at the moment, Mrs fitz and I decided that it was a better decision to stay at home and let them recuperate rather than make the trek over to Brookie.
So watching the game that I wanted to be at from my lounge room was a complete pain. Especially when we looked so good and so dominant in the first twenty minutes. Mrs fitz had that look on her face as to if to say “I’m so sorry baby… you should be there”
But then something happened and we imploded – the bubble burst big time and we went from being dominant to being completely pathetic. At that time I got the sense that Mrs fitz was looking at me and saying “I’m so sorry baby… I’m so glad you’re not there”
When I sit back and think about that, in the slightly calmer haze of dinner with my family and a few glasses of wine, I’m lead to question what was the crucial moment where we went from winners to losers.
There is an old saying… “When the going gets tough… the tough get going”
Today, the going got tough… and we fell to pieces.
Now, if I am looking for blame on that, I can’t help but think that the issue is leadership.
Leadership… not in the Coach’s box, or in the Board Room… but leadership out there on the paddock.
When things were starting to fall apart for the players, we needed someone to come to the fore and rally the troups and to get the boys back on track. Anyone who wishes to look at the replay of this game can see the body language of our boys change when a few things go against them.
So much today is made of “Winning Culture” and yet not much credit is taken in to account of the concept of “Winning Leadership”
Trent Barrett is our Captain... and the buck stops with him when it comes to the performance of the team out on the field for the 80 minutes.
It is his job to lift, manage, organize and motivate our player out there on the paddock. That is not the role of the Coach, the CEO, the Board or anyone else. The players are out there to do a job… and today, as was the case when we played Souths, there wasn’t the level of Leadership that we need.
We are a ramshackle team of newbies, anchors and journeymen. We are not flashy, showy and brash. We play honest hard work footy that grinds out a win.
Even when we had some of the best backs the world has ever seen, we managed to bring them to the fore by a forward pack that had a strong, uncompromising work ethic who set the platform… who won the battle of the ad-line and got the team some roll on.
What we need at the moment is a Captain who is going to get the boys to lift and go the extra centimetre… or whatever it takes to get us over the line and get us the two points.
We need that level of inspiration on the park. We need our Captain to stand up and play a “Captain’s Knock” and not someone who is going to even contemplate the concept of losing.
I get the sense that Trent doesn't even want the gig... it would seem to me that the mantle of leadership was foist upon him after Paul Gallen's indiscipline last year. Leaders are people who people follow... not people who people are told to follow.
We need a Captain who’ll live by the motto of: “I will not give up trying until you pry my passion out of my stiff dead fingers”
We need to rise.
So watching the game that I wanted to be at from my lounge room was a complete pain. Especially when we looked so good and so dominant in the first twenty minutes. Mrs fitz had that look on her face as to if to say “I’m so sorry baby… you should be there”
But then something happened and we imploded – the bubble burst big time and we went from being dominant to being completely pathetic. At that time I got the sense that Mrs fitz was looking at me and saying “I’m so sorry baby… I’m so glad you’re not there”
When I sit back and think about that, in the slightly calmer haze of dinner with my family and a few glasses of wine, I’m lead to question what was the crucial moment where we went from winners to losers.
There is an old saying… “When the going gets tough… the tough get going”
Today, the going got tough… and we fell to pieces.
Now, if I am looking for blame on that, I can’t help but think that the issue is leadership.
Leadership… not in the Coach’s box, or in the Board Room… but leadership out there on the paddock.
When things were starting to fall apart for the players, we needed someone to come to the fore and rally the troups and to get the boys back on track. Anyone who wishes to look at the replay of this game can see the body language of our boys change when a few things go against them.
So much today is made of “Winning Culture” and yet not much credit is taken in to account of the concept of “Winning Leadership”
Trent Barrett is our Captain... and the buck stops with him when it comes to the performance of the team out on the field for the 80 minutes.
It is his job to lift, manage, organize and motivate our player out there on the paddock. That is not the role of the Coach, the CEO, the Board or anyone else. The players are out there to do a job… and today, as was the case when we played Souths, there wasn’t the level of Leadership that we need.
We are a ramshackle team of newbies, anchors and journeymen. We are not flashy, showy and brash. We play honest hard work footy that grinds out a win.
Even when we had some of the best backs the world has ever seen, we managed to bring them to the fore by a forward pack that had a strong, uncompromising work ethic who set the platform… who won the battle of the ad-line and got the team some roll on.
What we need at the moment is a Captain who is going to get the boys to lift and go the extra centimetre… or whatever it takes to get us over the line and get us the two points.
We need that level of inspiration on the park. We need our Captain to stand up and play a “Captain’s Knock” and not someone who is going to even contemplate the concept of losing.
I get the sense that Trent doesn't even want the gig... it would seem to me that the mantle of leadership was foist upon him after Paul Gallen's indiscipline last year. Leaders are people who people follow... not people who people are told to follow.
We need a Captain who’ll live by the motto of: “I will not give up trying until you pry my passion out of my stiff dead fingers”
We need to rise.
SharkBoy
Great White
Well who should be our captain? Forget the politics of it all. Baz, Gal or someone else? Bring back ET? he's probably still as fit as any haha.
Good point fitz. I agree on Barrett, he didn't come back to the NRL to lead a team of battlers.
Gal is the only man to be captain, unless we did one of those wanky co-captain things and made someone more presentable skipper as well. Might be a bit hard to make happen given its not even a year since we sacked him... it would probably require Baz announcing his retirement (at least at the end of the season) and saying he thinks its best if the next man takes over immediately.
But yeah, it should be Gal.
Gal is the only man to be captain, unless we did one of those wanky co-captain things and made someone more presentable skipper as well. Might be a bit hard to make happen given its not even a year since we sacked him... it would probably require Baz announcing his retirement (at least at the end of the season) and saying he thinks its best if the next man takes over immediately.
But yeah, it should be Gal.
SharkBoy
Great White
Gal is the obvious choice. He's a loyal mofo. It seems he's grown up a bit too after last season.
Shark4Eva
Bronze Whaler
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2008
- Messages
- 152
- Reaction score
- 2
The NRL needs to step in and put in place regulations to outline happens when players are allegedly charged with something. I dont think the club should decide because it creates inconsistency. I think the sharks management panicked when bird was accused and sacked him without much thought.
danh231
Mullet
1. The whole thing started with the big trades in the 2008 offseason (kimmorley, degois gone. barett, tupou, etc. join). But im not blaming any of these players, only the sharks management. Kimmorley had just led the sharks to 1 win away from the grand final, and degois was one of the rising stars in the game. Why trade them up? These guys had finally got the combination right after 3 or 4 years with the same squad, then as soon as they get success (finish equal first with storm and manly), they break it all up, and do a complete squad rehaul....
I think all the offfeild incidents started with ricky stuart though. The australian coach setting a great example for the whole league by mouthing off in pubic to refferees, then starting a several week newspaper comment fight between sticky and gould. What a great way to start the 2009 season.
Thats where i think it all went wrong, Ricky Stuart and the club management screwing up the 2008/2009 offseason.
2. Not much we can do as fans, but i think the club just has to stick with its onfield combinations, they've shown they can play, their just having some tough 50/50 moments and calls. And outside of the club i think the whole NRL refereeing structure to be rehauled, it's getting to an absouletly apauling state, the refs can barely make a correct call anymore.
I think all the offfeild incidents started with ricky stuart though. The australian coach setting a great example for the whole league by mouthing off in pubic to refferees, then starting a several week newspaper comment fight between sticky and gould. What a great way to start the 2009 season.
Thats where i think it all went wrong, Ricky Stuart and the club management screwing up the 2008/2009 offseason.
2. Not much we can do as fans, but i think the club just has to stick with its onfield combinations, they've shown they can play, their just having some tough 50/50 moments and calls. And outside of the club i think the whole NRL refereeing structure to be rehauled, it's getting to an absouletly apauling state, the refs can barely make a correct call anymore.
Weaponhead
Hammerhead
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
- Messages
- 380
- Reaction score
- 19
Agree with Fitz's overview e leadership.
The first 20 mins showed there was a game plan that was working. We held onto the footy and played field position and even managed to create problems.
Our starting props came off and we conceded some penalties and the momentum shifted. No one made the necessary adjustments on the field to get us back into the game mentally. It was as if the team collectively thought 'here we go again' and that became an excuse to clock off.
Barrett looks like a frustrated footballer. He is being asked about his rep future, his retirement etc and his responses do not inspire confidence. He looks a beaten man. If your leader is beaten then the rest are as a good as gone. We need to make a change and make it now. The players need a change to get them to change.
There is a definition of insanity that goes like this
'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.' At the moment we are fitting that definition perfectly.
The first 20 mins showed there was a game plan that was working. We held onto the footy and played field position and even managed to create problems.
Our starting props came off and we conceded some penalties and the momentum shifted. No one made the necessary adjustments on the field to get us back into the game mentally. It was as if the team collectively thought 'here we go again' and that became an excuse to clock off.
Barrett looks like a frustrated footballer. He is being asked about his rep future, his retirement etc and his responses do not inspire confidence. He looks a beaten man. If your leader is beaten then the rest are as a good as gone. We need to make a change and make it now. The players need a change to get them to change.
There is a definition of insanity that goes like this
'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.' At the moment we are fitting that definition perfectly.
maco_magic
Tiger Shark
i think its time to rebuild.
get rid of the golden oldies. eg tupou, barrett, morris, covell, cuthbertson (i know he isnt old but his crap anyway.) cordoba, pommeroy.
and start fresh and just sign young players. get a new coach in. might take a season or so to see results but at least then we have players for the future.
time to rebuild from scratch i think. and youth is the way to go. save some money and then when a player with like thurstons ability becomes available snap him up provided he isnt above the age of 25.
get rid of the golden oldies. eg tupou, barrett, morris, covell, cuthbertson (i know he isnt old but his crap anyway.) cordoba, pommeroy.
and start fresh and just sign young players. get a new coach in. might take a season or so to see results but at least then we have players for the future.
time to rebuild from scratch i think. and youth is the way to go. save some money and then when a player with like thurstons ability becomes available snap him up provided he isnt above the age of 25.
Murphy
Great White
we a far the worst side in this comp
it got hard yestaday watching this...
got nfi in terms of what to do, if a team scores 16points we are never going to win a game we simply have no attack
but i will watch this pathic crap for the rest of the season
maybe it will be a simply waking up one morning and things will change:drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk
it got hard yestaday watching this...
got nfi in terms of what to do, if a team scores 16points we are never going to win a game we simply have no attack
but i will watch this pathic crap for the rest of the season
maybe it will be a simply waking up one morning and things will change:drunk:drunk:drunk:drunk