Tony Caine Vs Hughes

Henchmann

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Tony Caine is a bit of a mystery - whilst agree he played well in the Knights game and added some spark around the ruck, his last two goes against Saints and Dogs appeared to involve several errors. I think Ricky pulled him because he did not look confident and some of his passes from dummy half were wayward.

I can see a brighter future for Caine at Sharks than Seu Seu, maybe he just needs more games under his belt? But one thing’s for sure, we must cut down the errors and speed up our plays from dummy half. This position is an issue for me, not as big as our backline, but still concerning.
 

Capital_Shark

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I can understand people questioning why a team struggling to score points would keep a defensive player like Hughes over a more attacking player like Caine.

Obviously I can only speculate, but I'd suggest Ricky has confidence that if nothing else, our side can defend. Although its been woeful at times in 2009, we showed that in the past 2 seasons we can defend better than most and we can win games on the back of it. I for one have much more confidence in our defense to win us a game, than I do in our attack to do the same thing. Like I said, although we're not showing it like we have previously, we have what it takes to hold teams out. Rather than stacking the side with attack orientated players that might (its not proven) put on enough points to win, its probably wiser to stick to what we know we're good at, and leave key players with those defensive abilities in the side in the hope that we regain that awesome defense.

Think about the games we've played and lost this year. To say the tries we've conceded were soft is an understatement. If our 2008 defense was shown in 2009 I reckon we'd be pretty close to 4/4 to be honest and leading the comp, be it in an ugly fashion.

The one try the Bulldogs would of scored tough last Sunday was prevented solely by Corey Hughes. Had we had our 2008 defense in that game and Hughes not of stopped that try, it would of been a 6 point victory to the Bulldogs. I'm certain Caine would not have made the try saver Hughes did.
 

Megashark

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I for one have much more confidence in our defense to win us a game, than I do in our attack to do the same thing.

Neither one is working at the moment, hence we are not winning too many games.

If our 2008 defense was shown in 2009 I reckon we'd be pretty close to 4/4 to be honest and leading the comp, be it in an ugly fashion.

I disagree, as I think it is an altogether different ballgame this year under the two ref system. With the speed of the play the balls now the game has been opened up and made even quicker, and it is very difficult to restrict a side to a low score under these conditions. Whereas in the past we could rely in our defensive abilities to suffocate and frustrate other sides out of the contest by nullifying their attack, that is now a far more difficult thing to achieve, and consequently the ability to score tries has become more important than ever. Sadly, attack is an area in which we have struggled for many seasons now, and we are really beginning to pay the price on the evidence so far this season - 48 points in our opening 4 games is simply not enough to be anywhere near the top of the comp, regardless of the quality of our defence.

I'm certain Caine would not have made the try saver Hughes did.

What makes you think this? Caine's defence has been very solid in his appearances so far, whereas despite his try saver, Hughes missed 6 tackles against the Dogs. Their comparative stats for the season so far (Hughes having played 4 matches, and Caine having played in 3): Hughes has averaged 22.6 tackles per game and missed 2.4, while Caine has averaged 18.67 tackles and missed an average of 1. Certainly stats don't tell the whole story, but for whatever the reason Caine has found himself in NSW Cup this weekend, I very much doubt it is because of perceived defensive deficiencies.
 

Bungy

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Just to clarify to everyone,

1 Steve Roberts related to Julia and Ian
2 Matt Campbell related to Preston
3 Isaac Gordon related to Yileen
4 Jess Caine related to Tony
5 Filinga Filiga related to Karl
6 Jon Tavinor
7 Scott Porter related to Monty and Michael
8 Ryan Verlinden
9 Tony Caine related to Jess
10 Joe Falemaka related to Vaea
11 Tohi Leha
12 Atelea Vea
13 Anthony Killingbeck now in Gaol

INTERCHANGE
14 Inoke Tapaatoutai
15 Brad Barrett related to Trent
16 Daniel Rauicava
17 Trent Trotter related to a horse
18 Tim Weyman related to Michael
19 Aiden Howard related to a little weasel, former PM
20 Shannan Wood[/quote] related to Tiger and Graham
 

Capital_Shark

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Neither one is working at the moment, hence we are not winning too many games.

You're right. But I've witnessed us win games through defensive efforts, therefore I know it is possible. I haven't seen us win a game through attacking prowess.

Megashark said:
I disagree, as I think it is an altogether different ballgame this year under the two ref system. With the speed of the play the balls now the game has been opened up and made even quicker, and it is very difficult to restrict a side to a low score under these conditions. Whereas in the past we could rely in our defensive abilities to suffocate and frustrate other sides out of the contest by nullifying their attack, that is now a far more difficult thing to achieve, and consequently the ability to score tries has become more important than ever. Sadly, attack is an area in which we have struggled for many seasons now, and we are really beginning to pay the price on the evidence so far this season - 48 points in our opening 4 games is simply not enough to be anywhere near the top of the comp, regardless of the quality of our defence.

For and against aside, we'd be up there with more than 1 win from 4 games. I agree the game has changed dramatically under the 2 refs and has swung more in favour of attacking sides and I've posted on how I think this could be to our detriment. Last night though just quickly running the tries we've conceded through my head, none stand out as attacking brilliance. All bar the El Masri try I'd put them down to us buggering it up and it be a matter of them strolling through yawning gaps. That crap didn't happen in 2008.


Megashark said:
What makes you think this? Caine's defence has been very solid in his appearances so far, whereas despite his try saver, Hughes missed 6 tackles against the Dogs. Their comparative stats for the season so far (Hughes having played 4 matches, and Caine having played in 3): Hughes has averaged 22.6 tackles per game and missed 2.4, while Caine has averaged 18.67 tackles and missed an average of 1. Certainly stats don't tell the whole story, but for whatever the reason Caine has found himself in NSW Cup this weekend, I very much doubt it is because of perceived defensive deficiencies.

Stats tell whatever story you're trying to tell. I could probably go and find stats that debunk your stats. I don't like stats.

Corey Hughes has played plenty more minutes than Caine, which makes fatigue a factor, which could account for more missed tackles. The longer you spend on the field, the more defense you're gonna be subjected to. I don't have any solid proof that Caine wouldn't have made that tackle, but I'd back Hughes in over him to pull it off. Thats nothing against Caine.
 
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