I did say good coach...
Team Stats 2019
- Thread starter Flanno
- Start date
I did say good coach...
2017 was single-handedly sunk by a tanking Maloney. Nothing to do with Flanno.
Really? - do you have stats to say we were 1st for errors and 4th for penalties in Flanno's years?
Do you have stats to say we weren’t?
Discipline and handling were both subpar before this year so it should have been stopped before this year, nipped in the bud early as it were.
Don't try and deflect by answering a question with a question. I don't need to produce stats, I've called you out.
It's on you to back your statement.
Capital_Shark
Kitty Master
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Wasn't as big of a problem when they still put in effort plays and won.
Now we're all about relying on attack to chase points & come back rather than effort, toughness & discipline to not let them run away to begin with.
Ah yes the official forum call our rules, how could I forget
Don’t get too excited about it, I’m not saying we were exactly 1st and 4th, just that it was already a problem and if you don’t agree with that I’ll leave it to you to worry about if you wanna try and dig up some stats or not, call out be damned
You’re right it wasn’t, but we were still regularly unhappy with it and could see the team underperforming at times.
It was left to fester and it doesn’t shock me that attitude combined with less go forward and more defensively frailty has become disastrous
HaroldBishop
Megalodon
Strange post
Mark^Bastard
Great White
So what are coaches actually responsible for?
Sir Chadley
Jaws
Getting the booze organised?
snowman
Total gronk
game plans, training, preparation, interchanges, squald selections, recruitment, retention ect
what they arent responsibile for
dumb penalties and dropped balls
Sir Chadley
Jaws
With the penalties, being inside the 10 is a bit of a lottery. Sometimes you get away withi it sometimes you don't.
Always up to the referee and his interpretation.
Strip penalties the refs just guess in my opinion. But the smart thing to do is not to do it on the fourth or fifth tackle.
Flops are more prevalent these days, again in my opinion, referees take more notice of who is doing the flop - if it's a serial offender like Woods or Fifita they're more likely to penalise them compared to someone who doesn't have this reputation.
Always up to the referee and his interpretation.
Strip penalties the refs just guess in my opinion. But the smart thing to do is not to do it on the fourth or fifth tackle.
Flops are more prevalent these days, again in my opinion, referees take more notice of who is doing the flop - if it's a serial offender like Woods or Fifita they're more likely to penalise them compared to someone who doesn't have this reputation.
Mark^Bastard
Great White
Okay, so if they have players prone to dropping the ball and doggedly set an expansive gameplan that doesn't actually work, they can just blame the players for not being good enough? Even though they're actually pretty good on paper?
I fundamentally disagree with that.
snowman
Total gronk
do we have an expansive game plan though?
the canberra game moylan dropped 5 bombs - is that morris fault?
what about stupid offloads? 4 people on woods on fridays and he passed it to penrith?
against the cowboys chad passed the ball to capewell who literally had no one in front of him and would hav made 40-50m but he dropped it cold.
i dont see how the coach cops the forefront for errors, although, i do agree that he should take 50% blame for discipline
You're not wrong as a concept although as snowy touches on I don't think it's an expansive game plan affecting the errors as many occur on simple plays rather than as part of back line swings or dynamic play.
Fifita and Woods will always throw offloads regardless of game plan, it's a huge part of their game, they can't help it. Coach could spend the whole pre-game talk screaming nobody throw an offload and they'd still be odds on to do it.
We've dropped a heap of kicks, between Moyza/Dugan/Feki - not game plan related.
Plenty of other players dropping easy balls or spilling in contact (often with a little help) who likely aren't looking for an offload too.
Capes, which snowy brought up, dropping that sitter, which Xerri did a heap of when he was a dickfingers and a few other players are guilty of too, most of those are passes you throw whether you're playing expansive or conservative.
Imagine how pissed we'd all be at Chad if he hadn't thrown that ball to wide open Capes even if we knew we were playing conservatively.
If we got through first couple plays and then cooked our backline swing every time then maybe we'd have to identify we need to be more conservative but we have scored I think 3rd most tries, backline works enough to be worthwhile IMO
To me paper thin defence, lack of go forward & penalties are all bigger issues than errors anyway. If an expansive game plan is our issue it is because we are practicing it too much at the expensive of other things, like defense.
Mark^Bastard
Great White
Okay I get what you're saying. There's definitely errors that are 100% the fault of the individual, particularly when they have plenty of experience in a position and still **** it up over and over again.
But we definitely are trying to be too lateral early in tackle counts (for example). You guys don't see that? We're not playing a typical conservative game plan but dropping passes from the hooker to the prop or the hooker to the half back to the prop. We're trying cutesie bull**** early in the tackle count including spreading it early. We're doing short dropkicks over and over again. Our conservative controlling half back is starting to bring dumb **** like chip chases into his game. Where is this rot coming from? That's what I'm getting at.
But we definitely are trying to be too lateral early in tackle counts (for example). You guys don't see that? We're not playing a typical conservative game plan but dropping passes from the hooker to the prop or the hooker to the half back to the prop. We're trying cutesie bull**** early in the tackle count including spreading it early. We're doing short dropkicks over and over again. Our conservative controlling half back is starting to bring dumb **** like chip chases into his game. Where is this rot coming from? That's what I'm getting at.
We have so much strike wide (Xerri/Dugan/Nikora) I don't mind challenging the edges a bit earlier, especially as we can all see we are often struggling to make meters in the forwards. Most games at least two of Fifita, Prior, Woods & Gallen are really poor.
That's not game plan, that's old age/injury/fatigue.
Short drop outs unless we have a strong preference to defend our line I don't think we have won enough to warrant persisting with them. I don't mind if they want to practice it to pull it out the bag every now and again but as the go to play I think it has had an unreasonably low success rate. Everyone knows to expect it too.
Chad can cut out the chips, as I touched on in other thread not sure if he is trying to join the X factor to show off or because he is being asked to.
These are definitely examples of things we are doing wrong IMO. Chad could be game plan or himself, I would assume the players are wanting the short drops, I would hope the coach isn't forcing them without input of the players. Happy for him to step in and say no more though.
Wiz
Jaws
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I think everyone here can see a fair chunk of this is now falling onto the coach.
He needs to assert some authority, simplify our game plan with this superstar squad we have and cut the cute bs off, way too much power to the players...
Mark^Bastard
Great White
A few scenarios I can think of...
- Morris comes in with the "I'm your coach now boys, go out there and have some fun, I won't be the handbreak" crap.
- Morris doesn't do that, but the players just start playing that way anyway because they don't see him policing it. Try something and if you don't get pulled up for it you'll try it again. This is basic activity for humans and animals, testing boundaries etc.
- Morris actually says I want you to go out there and play expansive footy, and guys that aren't used to it are giving it a go even if they're not comfortable with it.
- Morris hates it and wants Flanno ball but the players are just doing it any way.
Sir Chadley
Jaws
No doubt that the coach needs to take responsibility for what has happened to us this year.
I mean you wouldn't expect someone like Bellamy or Robinson or Bennett putting up with this.
But what does Morris do?
Does he drop some of the senior players and risk upsetting the playing group even further.
For a rookie coach this would be a nightmare scenario.
Flanno didn't give a ****, his word was law.
But even he had to work into it when he started. He inherited Ricky's squad and had to gain respect.
I think it took him more than a year to do that.