Official Ronaldo Mulitalo

[Wilson]

Someone might have said this already.... it was a Pomeroey-esque performance from him last night. Had some positives but gave up a couple of bonehead penalties.

The defensive effort for the Raiders last try was horrific as well.

 

[Jasonstevenswedgie]

Someone might have said this already.... it was a Pomeroey-esque performance from him last night. Had some positives but gave up a couple of bonehead penalties.

and two bad reads in defense, rushed up and took nobody. kennedys attempt of shiller was bad but should never have been in that position

 

[bort]

The defensive effort for the Raiders last try was horrific as well.

I haven’t watched it back but on live impression…
Not really

It was a well run shape targeting the three man which drew in the rookie centre.
The winger ending up 2 on 1 from that is more well executed play by attacking team than particularly poor defence.

Every team runs shapes like that to create an overlap because they work.

 

[BurgoShark]

and two bad reads in defense, rushed up and took nobody. kennedys attempt of shiller was bad but should never have been in that position

That one was on several other players. Brailey was called not square at marker on the play before and both A defenders were having a bludge (Tom and Cam) so the Raiders make a half break. Then next tackle the Sharks have enough numbers but Trindall doesn't trust Hazelton and comes in, leaves his winger and centre isolated.

I haven’t watched it back but on live impression…
Not really

It was a well run shape targeting the three man which drew in the rookie centre.
The winger ending up 2 on 1 from that is more well executed play by attacking team than particularly poor defence.

Every team runs shapes like that to create an overlap because they work.

I re-watched it. Thought it could have been shut down by better positioning from Ronnie.

 

[bort]

I re-watched it. Thought it could have been shut down by better positioning from Ronnie.

Could have yeah, but trindall comes in on the lead runner and then gets beaten for speed on his outside which holds up Iro for a moment, which draws Ronnie off his man.

It was recoverable if Ronnie had held on his man more. It was also recoverable if Trindall doesn’t get beat.



Both Iro and Ronnie are turned in because of the man getting to Trindalls outside shoulder.
If Trindall wasn’t being beaten Iro would be looking at Timoko and Ronnie at Schiller.

IMO, as I said before, more a play doing what it was supposed to than one guy on our team making a horrific read

 

[Wilson]

Could have yeah, but trindall comes in on the lead runner and then gets beaten for speed on his outside which holds up Iro for a moment, which draws Ronnie off his man.

It was recoverable if Ronnie had held on his man more. It was also recoverable if Trindall doesn’t get beat.

View attachment 30741

Both Iro and Ronnie are turned in because of the man getting to Trindalls outside shoulder.
If Trindall wasn’t being beaten Iro would be looking at Timoko and Ronnie at Schiller.

IMO, as I said before, more a play doing what it was supposed to than one guy on our team making a horrific read

Didn’t read but the picture shows me that a Ronnie is too far in field, cheers.

 

[Wizard]

Didn’t read but the picture shows me that a Ronnie is too far in field, cheers.

I think Bort and Burg are actually upset Trindall had a good game so take what they are saying with a grain of salt

 

[BurgoShark]

Could have yeah, but trindall comes in on the lead runner and then gets beaten for speed on his outside which holds up Iro for a moment, which draws Ronnie off his man.

It was recoverable if Ronnie had held on his man more. It was also recoverable if Trindall doesn’t get beat.

View attachment 30741

Both Iro and Ronnie are turned in because of the man getting to Trindalls outside shoulder.
If Trindall wasn’t being beaten Iro would be looking at Timoko and Ronnie at Schiller.

IMO, as I said before, more a play doing what it was supposed to than one guy on our team making a horrific read

Yeah agree with all of this. Ronnie makes a read based on all of the above. There is a chance that Rapana attacks the space between Trindalll and Iro there and he has to play that accordingly.

Not a horrific read, but the entire edge could have played it better, including Ronnie. Tough spot for him though. If he jams too early Rapana just floats one over the top.

 

[Jasonstevenswedgie]

Yeah agree with all of this. Ronnie makes a read based on all of the above. There is a chance that Rapana attacks the space between Trindalll and Iro there and he has to play that accordingly.

Not a horrific read, but the entire edge could have played it better, including Ronnie. Tough spot for him though. If he jams too early Rapana just floats one over the top.

ronnies only option isnt to jam though, he could let his inside guys do their job and stay on his winger, also if ronnie isnt up level with the ball giving his winger 10 metres on his outside maybe rapana is forced to go the short ball or go himself.

 

[BurgoShark]

ronnies only option isnt to jam though, he could let his inside guys do their job and stay on his winger, also if ronnie isnt up level with the ball giving his winger 10 metres on his outside maybe rapana is forced to go the short ball or go himself.

Yeah sure… but the defence HAD to make a choice. They couldn’t just cover their men 3-on-3 because Trindall got sucked in (or maybe because the inside defenders didn’t get on their bike enough).

It’s actually Iro who makes the choice here. Wingers job is to follow the centre’s lead.

Comes down to whether you think Trindall would have made that tackle. I can’t say for sure he would have and I’ve watched the replay 4 times. Iro had to decide in a split second.

 

[Jasonstevenswedgie]

what ever happens thet go close to scoring
ronnie stays out a little more rapana either goes himself as he is on the outside of trindall
rapana runs at iro and hits timoko
the ball from rapana was nice.
personally i think the chances of stopping it are higher if he stays back and wider. another 2 - 3 metres and shiller isnt going around which means rapana goes himself, iro contact tricky to help or short ball to timoko which is iro contact with ronnie and trindall to help.
i think kennedy was to far away to help anyone

just watching it again. rapana made his decision so far before the line because of ronnies position. its like 2-3 metres before the line

 

[Sir Chadley]

I am no league defence expert but for me Ronnie needed to stay on his man. If somehow the ball goes to Iro’s man and he beats Iro so be it. That’s on Iro. But the ball went to Schiller and Ronnie should have been there.

 

[BurgoShark]

I am no league defence expert but for me Ronnie needed to stay on his man. If somehow the ball goes to Iro’s man and he beats Iro so be it. That’s on Iro. But the ball went to Schiller and Ronnie should have been there.

That’s not how edge defence works Chad.

Idea here is to work together to shut down the immediate thread first. Immediate thread is space between Trindall and Iro.

Once Iro deals with that, the immediate thread becomes the space between Iro and Ronnie.

Winger staying on his man is what happens when there are no other threats. Winger hanging his centre out to dry is a big no-no. As soon as Iro turns in Ronnie must follow him.

If you think Trindall would have 100% made that tackle, then Iro and Ronnie read it wrong. If you think it is possible Rapana beats Trindall, then Iro and Ronnie played it well and Rapana just played it better.

Going back a dozen posts or so… this is definitely not an example of a winger running in off his wing when everything was ok. Edge had to make decisions here. That’s never only the winger’s fault.

 

[Wizard]

That’s not how edge defence works Chad.

Idea here is to work together to shut down the immediate thread first. Immediate thread is space between Trindall and Iro.

Once Iro deals with that, the immediate thread becomes the space between Iro and Ronnie.

Winger staying on his man is what happens when there are no other threats. Winger hanging his centre out to dry is a big no-no. As soon as Iro turns in Ronnie must follow him.

If you think Trindall would have 100% made that tackle, then Iro and Ronnie read it wrong. If you think it is possible Rapana beats Trindall, then Iro and Ronnie played it well and Rapana just played it better.

Going back a dozen posts or so… this is definitely not an example of a winger running in off his wing when everything was ok. Edge had to make decisions here. That’s never only the winger’s fault.

Not all edge defence systems work like this.

Some players have specific roles or set instructions, you are assuming you know how the sharks edge defence works

 

[bort]

I am no league defence expert but for me Ronnie needed to stay on his man. If somehow the ball goes to Iro’s man and he beats Iro so be it. That’s on Iro. But the ball went to Schiller and Ronnie should have been there.

I also object to this sentence

It’s a team game and Iro was reacting to what his teammate did. And so was Ronnie, as he should.

How often do you see a last pass to the unmarked winger go astray or be off enough they slow down. Forcing the more difficult pass is wayyyy better than letting the centre stroll in. Iro is holding up there which would create a very Timoko sized gap of Ronnie was out wider.

While Ronnie looks a bit far forwards my suspicion would be he’s trying to put himself in a spot to both assist inside and cut off a pass. Obviously didn’t work.

Also JSWs implication Iro was in a position for both helping Trindall with Rapana and stopping Timoko one on one of Ronnie stays out seems generous as to what Ronnies inside man was capable of.

It was a well run play, you can find very similar examples in the NRL every week… most games even, because it creates tries.
Was it defended as well as it possibly could have been? No. Was it’s simply horrific by Ronnie? Also no.

 

[Jasonstevenswedgie]

Also JSWs implication Iro was in a position for both helping Trindall with Rapana and stopping Timoko one on one of Ronnie stays out seems generous as to what Ronnies inside man was capable of.

im not suggesting iro will stop timoko one on one, im saying he is in position to get help from either trindall or ronnie and to assist trindall if rapana goes himself, ronnie created the situation for the cut out ball by being up and in so far. if he was acyually moving in tandam with iro, he actually stops the cut out ball being thrown. ronnies actions make rapana make his decision metres before the line.
ronnie has come out of system as he is past the ball and moniving in as iro is moving out. he over reads a lot of plays and ends up taking nobody when all he needs to do is hold for an extra split second

 

[BurgoShark]

im not suggesting iro will stop timoko one on one, im saying he is in position to get help from either trindall or ronnie and to assist trindall if rapana goes himself, ronnie created the situation for the cut out ball by being up and in so far.

This is his job.

If he believes Trindall is beaten, his job is to force the more difficult pass rather than letting Rapana stroll in or leaving Timoko unmarked.

if he was acyually moving in tandam with iro, he actually stops the cut out ball being thrown.

…and then what happens? Does Trindall make the tackle?

ronnies actions make rapana make his decision metres before the line.

Yep. Did his job.

ronnie has come out of system as he is past the ball and moniving in as iro is moving out.
he over reads a lot of plays and ends up taking nobody when all he needs to do is hold for an extra split second

He is not out of the system at all. He makes a decision within the system based on what he has read. He thinks that Trindall is beaten, that Iro is going to have to take Rapana, he is going to have to take Timoko, and if the Raiders get around them hopefully Kennedy beats the winger to the corner.

Do you think Trindall makes the tackle on Rapana without help?

 

[BurgoShark]

Here is an example of what happens when a winger “stays on his man” even though his inside man is beaten. He takes nobody and looks like he has NFI.

Better option is to push in and force the attacker to make a play.

Slick Sharks send Kennedy in

Will Kennedy goes in off a Nicho Hynes pass

www.nrl.com

 

[Jasonstevenswedgie]

Here is an example of what happens when a winger “stays on his man” even though his inside man is beaten. He takes nobody and looks like he has NFI.

Better option is to push in and force the attacker to make a play.

Slick Sharks send Kennedy in

Will Kennedy goes in off a Nicho Hynes pass

www.nrl.com

that is a totally differnt play to what unfolded on sunday
ronnie soesnt need to mark his man but his position needs to be better if he is 1-2 m back inline with iro and 1-2 wider the option isnt there to get on his outside. he can either jam in to help iro or take shiller when he gets the ball.

as for trindall making the tackle who knows, ronnie made his decision for him by being to far up and in. rapana passed 3 metres before the d line

 

[bort]

that is a totally differnt play to what unfolded on sunday
ronnie soesnt need to mark his man but his position needs to be better if he is 1-2 m back inline with iro and 1-2 wider the option isnt there to get on his outside. he can either jam in to help iro or take shiller when he gets the ball.

as for trindall making the tackle who knows, ronnie made his decision for him by being to far up and in. rapana passed 3 metres before the d line

Ronnie reacted to Trindall being beaten
Trindall is full side on running behind his man - if Iro stays locked on Timoko, Rapana probably goes in through that gap.
Iro's positioning and eyes on Rapana takes away run and gives pass. The question then is just has Ronnie closed the near part of the 2 on 1 or the far part.

It's not my position that it was perfectly defended but unstoppable, this guy or that guy probably could have been a step or two different and stopped it.
I know you weren’t responded specifically to what I had said but just to say again, my reason for starting this convo was I feel it is much more a well executed play than one specific person making a ‘horrific’ defensive play. I’m sure if our guys reviewed the footage and got a do over they’d stop it.

There are numerous people who could have done a little better, Atkinson probably could have pushed a bit harder so Trindall see's him coming to help Teig and doesn't get caught up there



At this point Rapana doesn’t have the ball get and Ronnie has Schiller well covered. Trindall already at all sorts coming off the lead runner.



Trindall now having to go into full side on run to get across which turns Iro and Ronnie in
Both have closed their stance as they change from being ready to go out, to in. Yes Rapana still well away from line but Trindall looks beat, without benefits of hindsight the best move is to force the toughest option, which is the cutout