Official Nicho Hynes

[MrDravid]

I don’t think it is something which can be reflected by stats mate. Could start mapping it, but I wouldn’t have anything to compare to.

In my opinion though, there are some specific things which Tricky does well and some things he struggles at. Their positioning on the shifts tends to reflect that.

E.g. If you look at the Katoa try, or on the Sifa try rd1 or the Ronnie try last week. Trindall can’t throw the pass the Nicho throws in those situations.

Yeah seems like we've gone from Moylan - Hynes - Kennedy - Winger (sometimes no Kennedy), to now Hynes - Tricky - Kennedy - Winger (sometimes no Kennedy).

Either Hynes is not doing the same job Moylan did, or Tricky isn't doing the same job Hynes did (or a bit of both).

 

[Proud Shark]

I don’t think it is something which can be reflected by stats mate. Could start mapping it, but I wouldn’t have anything to compare to.

In my opinion though, there are some specific things which Tricky does well and some things he struggles at. Their positioning on the shifts tends to reflect that.

E.g. If you look at the Katoa try, or on the Sifa try rd1 or the Ronnie try last week. Trindall can’t throw the pass the Nicho throws in those situations.

Yeah that's what I think. Tricky is less able to play the Moylan role, so the structure this year is more Nicho = 2023 Moylan and Tricky = 2023 Nicho.

 

[BurgoShark]

Yeah seems like we've gone from Moylan - Hynes - Kennedy - Winger (sometimes no Kennedy), to now Hynes - Tricky - Kennedy - Winger (sometimes no Kennedy).

Either Hynes is not doing the same job Moylan did, or Tricky isn't doing the same job Hynes did (or a bit of both).

Yeah that's what I think. Tricky is less able to play the Moylan role, so the structure this year is more Nicho = 2023 Moylan and Tricky = 2023 Nicho.

That’s not what I meant.

Nicho is playing the same. Nobody is playing the Moylan role. Tricky is playing a new role.

 

[MrDravid]

That’s not what I meant.

Nicho is playing the same. Nobody is playing the Moylan role. Tricky is playing a new role.

Isn't Nicho playing more first receiver this year compared to last year though?

 

[Proud Shark]

That’s not what I meant.

Nicho is playing the same. Nobody is playing the Moylan role. Tricky is playing a new role.

Ahh, my bad. So you feel like they are playing different altogether. That's beyond me, I was more just looking at 1st/2nd reciever. I thought Moylan played a lot of first last year, and Nicho is filling that void a bit.

 

[BurgoShark]

Isn't Nicho playing more first receiver this year compared to last year though?

Ahh, my bad. So you feel like they are playing different altogether. That's beyond me, I was more just looking at 1st/2nd reciever. I thought Moylan played a lot of first last year, and Nicho is filling that void a bit.

Do you guys mean on shift plays or in general?

 

[MrDravid]

Do you guys mean on shift plays or in general?

I was referring more to the shift plays (not that I have any hard evidence for it)

 

[Gards]

Was mentioned that Nicho has just the 1 try assist for the season (not a reflection of his ability or a criticism really) but perhaps the team are slowly moving towards what some fans have wanted (and some not) with Nicho being more a manager and attacking duties given to some other players like Tricky and Blayke who have started to create more opportunities for us.

Nicho running into the line and getting held up and tackled at least keeps the middle defense honest and even with a slow PTB does have somewhat of a compression effect on the defense. Moylan used to do this all the time.

And the moment the defense don't jam Nicho bam dummy and run through the gap or put another player through it

The way he is slotting goals right now he is worth 8-10 points a game for us just off his boot and those sort of margins win games

This must be our best start to a season since what 2016? So while it might be a work in progress and not always convincing at least in part it's doing something positive and of value for us and it's early days when it comes to this halves combo and whatever this new structure Fitz has put in place.

If we are winning games and the team is working as a whole I'm not really fussed what Nicho is being paid cause the money has to go somewhere anyway and there is no guarantee we are going any better with a different/cheaper No.7 and an additional squady or 2

 

[Western Sharkie]

Could also be that he is more at 1st rather than 2nd receiver so is shuffling out to Trindall who ends up with the assist.

Try assists are to be taken with a dose of salt as the true “creator” isn’t necessarily always the final pass.

 

[Tiger Shark]

That’s not what I meant.

Nicho is playing the same. Nobody is playing the Moylan role. Tricky is playing a new role.

Nicho's not playing the same at all imo.

And it's not a bad thing but our whole attack is very different to last, playing more direct, less of the sling shot moves, if any, though we might be saving those till later.

 

[bort]

Could also be that he is more at 1st rather than 2nd receiver so is shuffling out to Trindall who ends up with the assist.

Try assists are to be taken with a dose of salt as the true “creator” isn’t necessarily always the final pass.

The also murky stat of Total Try Involvements by Fox has
Hunt 14
Drinkwater 13
DCE / Fogarty / Sj 12
MULITALO / DEdwards / IKatoa 10
7 spine players plus Manu on 9
And then HYNES along with TRINDALL at 8 along with 5 others, of whom 4 are spine.

For Try Contributions (a Matt Moylan special) Hynes sits equal second with 5 (Fogarty has 8).
Dearden, IKatoa, Keary also on 5.

So we have both halves contributing equally, and 'reasonably well' to scoring, in slightly different ways, and a winger much further up the list than any other true outside backs (helped by being equal top try scorer).

From a purely observational point of view Trindall rarely plays the 'straighten up the attack' before the spread role which Moylan was good at and now Hynes does seem to be doing more of. Maybe an area for Trindall to work on.

 

[Spanner shark]

Maybe Nicho doesn't have the right hand side second rower centre and winger running lines.Defence is all over them. If they did that might just open a few holes up

 

[bort]

Maybe Nicho doesn't have the right hand side second rower centre and winger running lines.Defence is all over them. If they did that might just open a few holes up

We were minus Nikora for two weeks before last week, which definitely wouldn't help. Last week and Nikora back and otherwise has had Jesse and Sione so no particular reason that edge should fall off.

 

[BurgoShark]

The also murky stat of Total Try Involvements by Fox has
Hunt 14
Drinkwater 13
DCE / Fogarty / Sj 12
MULITALO / DEdwards / IKatoa 10
7 spine players plus Manu on 9
And then HYNES along with TRINDALL at 8 along with 5 others, of whom 4 are spine.

For Try Contributions (a Matt Moylan special) Hynes sits equal second with 5 (Fogarty has 8).
Dearden, IKatoa, Keary also on 5.

So we have both halves contributing equally, and 'reasonably well' to scoring, in slightly different ways, and a winger much further up the list than any other true outside backs (helped by being equal top try scorer).

From a purely observational point of view Trindall rarely plays the 'straighten up the attack' before the spread role which Moylan was good at and now Hynes does seem to be doing more of. Maybe an area for Trindall to work on.

Are we still talking about Sharks attacking shapes, or just "who is doing good stuff"?

Lets look at this a different way.

If you only include tries where the Sharks scored on edged by taking advantage of numbers and determine “who did what” you get something like…

Warriors
* Brailey to (5 on 4) Hynes to Trindall to Talakai to Mulitalo
* Trindall to Brailey to (4 on 3) Hynes to Talakai to Mulitalo to Talakai

Bulldogs
* Brailey to (5 on 4) Hynes to Wilton to Trindall
* Brailey to (4 on 2) Hynes to WIlton to Talakai, kick for Mulitalo
* Brailey to Hynes to Trindall to (3 on 2) Kennedy to Talakai to Mulitalo to Wilton

Raiders
* Brailey to (5 on 3) Trindall
* Trindall to Hynes, to (2 on 1) Iro to Multialo
* Brailey to (6 on 4) Trindall to Iro
* Brailey to Hynes to (2 on 1) Kennedy, kick for Mulitalo
* Brailey to (5 on 4) Trindall to Hynes to Katoa

Rabbitohs
Brailey to (4 on 3) Hynes to Kennedy to Mulitalo
Brailey to Hynes to (4 on 3) Trindall to Katoa

Sharks have scored just one try where all four spine players featured, and it was a bit of a clunky one (Teig v Bulldogs).

Obviously we are not counting the misses here (how many times they have numbers and don't score - or bomb it) but just looking at the data from tries I'd say that for the Sharks spine players...

- Brailey's contribution has been creating the numerical advantage (either on his own or from the half's call, probably a bit of each)
- Nicho's contribution has been both in creating the advantage and executing once he has numbers
- Trindall's contribution has primarily been in executing when he has numbers, but he occasionally creates the advantage for someone else
- Kennedy's contribution has solely been in executing when he has numbers
- The Moylan role in shifts of “dig in to the line with the back rower and create space” doesn’t exist atm.

A few other notes:
- Wilton has featured fairly heavily in the tries, either with the ball or as a decoy - but mostly from Nicho ballplaying on his side (his try v Bulldogs the exception)
- Nikora's only involvement in a try this season was running a decoy/line for the Katoa try against the Rabbitohs
- Sharks haven't scored from a 1 man advantage on the left without Nicho being involved
- Sharks haven't scored on the right without Trindall being involved

*

Interesting stuff which could mean something or absolutely nothing, and much of this could turn out to be wrong when looking at non-scoring plays. If we want to understand what is going on with Sharks attacking shapes and roles I reckon this is as good a place as any to start though.

 

[Sparkles]

Was mentioned that Nicho has just the 1 try assist for the season (not a reflection of his ability or a criticism really) but perhaps the team are slowly moving towards what some fans have wanted (and some not) with Nicho being more a manager and attacking duties given to some other players like Tricky and Blayke who have started to create more opportunities for us.

I'd say without doubt. One of the issues we had against top teams was how predictable we were with our use of Nicho. We really need Trindall, Kennedy and Brailey to become more unpredictable attacking conduits. Like how the Storm play. Any one of those spine players can kick off an attack without it necessarily being funneled through Hughes.

I'd say at the moment only Brailey is really starting to tick that box.

 

[BurgoShark]

I'd say without doubt. One of the issues we had against top teams was how predictable we were with our use of Nicho. We really need Trindall, Kennedy and Brailey to become more unpredictable attacking conduits. Like how the Storm play. Any one of those spine players can kick off an attack without it necessarily being funneled through Hughes.

I'd say at the moment only Brailey is really starting to tick that box.

Score all our tries from kicks?

Did pretty well at that last week. Accidentally snagged two through the hands though. Will have to try harder this week.

 

[Sparkles]

Score all our tries from kicks?

Did pretty well at that last week. Accidentally snagged two through the hands though. Will have to try harder this week.

Bomb multiple opportunities was where I was headed

Will does have to try harder this week. As do they all, people... don't get mad, Willenials, it's (mostly) a joke!

 

[Gards]

I remember back in 2008 or whatever some Journo said to Ricky in a pressor that most of our try's come from kicks and Ricky cracked the shits .Can't blame him, does it really matter how you score them?

 

[BurgoShark]

I remember back in 2008 or whatever some Journo said to Ricky in a pressor that most of our try's come from kicks and Ricky cracked the shits .Can't blame him, does it really matter how you score them?

For one game? No.

Historically teams who score a lot of kick tries aren’t able to maintain success for long. Gets figured out on video by mid season.

 

[Blue_Eyes84]

Nicho is tough. His defence this year has been so good.