Official Luke Metcalf

mr.sharkiee

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I thought he would've pushed for a spot this year during pre-season and trials.
 

mr.sharkiee

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I don’t think a starting spot was on the cards but potentially bench, but that might be Moylans regardless

Well atleast give himself a chance to push for a spot. Who knows he could've out performed Trindall, Tracey or Moylan throughout pre-season and the trials.

Oh well, win some you and you lose some, to be honest I would've like to see him in the centre's but whatever.
 
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Well atleast give himself a chance to push for a spot. Who knows he could've out performed Trindall, Tracey or Moylan throughout pre-season and the trials.

Oh well, win some you and you lose some, to be honest I would've like to see him in the centre's but whatever.
How much would you have been willing to pay him though?
 

Wizard

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How much would you have been willing to pay him though?
You happily give him 250 this year and 250-3 next.

Same amount if not less then what we paid Connor Tracey even though Metcalf already looks the better player (in fullback/halves)

It's crazy. Now if Kennedy or Hynes go down we rely on Moylan or Tracey to have to play fullback or halves. Silly because neither of them can play fullback and only one of them can play halves when he isn't on one leg
 

burgess1978

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You happily give him 250 this year and 250-3 next.

Same amount if not less then what we paid Connor Tracey even though Metcalf already looks the better player (in fullback/halves)

It's crazy. Now if Kennedy or Hynes go down we rely on Moylan or Tracey to have to play fullback or halves. Silly because neither of them can play fullback and only one of them can play halves when he isn't on one leg
He’s on the team this year. You can kick that conversation down the road.

Note also that Berrell has played plenty of 6, a bit of 7, and a lot of that floating “extra ball player” role in the Q Cup, so he would come in to the conversation - as would Miller (who could be a stud or a dud). If you get desperate this year with injuries sign Rhys Davies as your 30th guy and play him for a week or two. He is a better half than both Tracey and Metcalf.

For 2023 you have Dykes, Taukamo, Rivett as your depth options - all hopefully with an extra year of decent footy under them - plus whoever they choose to sign/re-sign from this year (Berrell, Davies, Ernst, Fuz, Lualua, Iro).

If you don’t like any of those options for 2023 you have a whole year to find/someone else.
 
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burgess1978

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It's funny how people throw out random numbers like that.

Salary Cap after paying everyone minimum wage is $6.3m, of which $4-4.5m is going to be committed to your top 6 or 7 earners.

Players 8 through 26 are sharing ~$1.5-2.0m in top-ups on their $120k - or about $80-100k per player. For every guy in that range you want to pay $250-300k you need two on the list making minimum wage only.

The numbers that get thrown around in forums are ridiculous. Basic maths says that if you are not a top 10 player on your team in the NRL you are almost certainly earning $200k or less, and if you are outside the top 20 you are probably closer to minimum wage.

*

My guess is $9.7m breaks down something like this for most clubs.

Players 1-7 ($5.6m) = $800k average
Players 8-12 ($1.5m) = $300k
Players 13-20 ($1.6m) = $200k
Players 21-26 ($720k) = $120k
Players 27-30 ($320k) = $80k

...keeping in mind in real life though that nobody would actually commit 100% of their cap on day 1. They would need to keep some aside for tier 2 (dev) players called up as emergencies, for mid-season signings, and any bonuses.
 
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bort

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It's funny how people throw out random numbers like that.

Salary Cap after paying everyone minimum wage is $6.3m, of which $4-4.5m is going to be committed to your top 6 or 7 earners.

Players 8 through 26 are sharing ~$1.5-2.0m in top-ups on their $120k - or about $80-100k per player. For every guy in that range you want to pay $250-300k you need two on the list making minimum wage only.

The numbers that get thrown around in forums are ridiculous. Basic maths says that if you are not a top 10 player on your team in the NRL you are almost certainly earning $200k or less, and if you are outside the top 20 you are probably closer to minimum wage.

*

My guess is $9.7m breaks down something like this for most clubs.

Players 1-7 ($5.6m) = $800k average
Players 8-12 ($1.5m) = $300k
Players 13-20 ($1.6m) = $200k
Players 21-26 ($720k) = $120k
Players 27-30 ($320k) = $80k

...keeping in mind in real life though that nobody would actually commit 100% of their cap on day 1. They would need to keep some aside for tier 2 (dev) players called up as emergencies, for mid-season signings, and any bonuses.
Are you suggesting Luke Metcalf and Tracey are not in our top 8-12 players? Outrageous!

On average across clubs I think it is even a little more skewed than that as approx half players earn 180k or less, so probably some of your 8-12 are on a little more and most of your 13-20 on a bit less.

I think it is one thing to consider a reported number and discuss it (not guaranteed to be correct, sure), but another completely to just make up your own number and then hold it against the player
 

burgess1978

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Are you suggesting Luke Metcalf and Tracey are not in our top 8-12 players? Outrageous!

On average across clubs I think it is even a little more skewed than that as approx half players earn 180k or less, so probably some of your 8-12 are on a little more and most of your 13-20 on a bit less.

I think it is one thing to consider a reported number and discuss it (not guaranteed to be correct, sure), but another completely to just make up your own number and then hold it against the player
Yeah probably. Those estimates would be the average across that group though. i.e. Player 8 earns more than player 12 but on average players in that group "average around that number". Ditto for player 14 earning more than player 20.

What I'm talking about is when a guy comes on the market and someone says "I'd give him X" without any actual understanding of how the cap fits together. It's probably fine to have that discussion for anyone making $600k plus, because we have at least something to go in in terms of reported market value in that space. When people start speculating about guys making $450k, $350k, 250k things go off the rails. The ten blokes at the top always take the bulk of the money. A player making $250k-350k is quite likely among your top 10-12 money earners. They are a low-end starting player or an experienced bench player. A depth player is making much less.
 
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Wizard

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Are you suggesting Luke Metcalf and Tracey are not in our top 8-12 players? Outrageous!

On average across clubs I think it is even a little more skewed than that as approx half players earn 180k or less, so probably some of your 8-12 are on a little more and most of your 13-20 on a bit less.

I think it is one thing to consider a reported number and discuss it (not guaranteed to be correct, sure), but another completely to just make up your own number and then hold it against the player
Tracey is on over 200k mate - enough said
 

Born&bred

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It's funny how people throw out random numbers like that.

Salary Cap after paying everyone minimum wage is $6.3m, of which $4-4.5m is going to be committed to your top 6 or 7 earners.

Players 8 through 26 are sharing ~$1.5-2.0m in top-ups on their $120k - or about $80-100k per player. For every guy in that range you want to pay $250-300k you need two on the list making minimum wage only.

The numbers that get thrown around in forums are ridiculous. Basic maths says that if you are not a top 10 player on your team in the NRL you are almost certainly earning $200k or less, and if you are outside the top 20 you are probably closer to minimum wage.

*

My guess is $9.7m breaks down something like this for most clubs.

Players 1-7 ($5.6m) = $800k average
Players 8-12 ($1.5m) = $300k
Players 13-20 ($1.6m) = $200k
Players 21-26 ($720k) = $120k
Players 27-30 ($320k) = $80k

...keeping in mind in real life though that nobody would actually commit 100% of their cap on day 1. They would need to keep some aside for tier 2 (dev) players called up as emergencies, for mid-season signings, and any bonuses.
That doesn't include 3rd party payments does it? I'm sure when people quote salaries they are inclusive of this.

That probably wouldn't be a large factor for our players salaries though I guess.
 

burgess1978

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That doesn't include 3rd party payments does it? I'm sure when people quote salaries they are inclusive of this.

That probably wouldn't be a large factor for our players salaries though I guess.
Probably not. I’d imagine plenty of players have some kind of TPAs, even if it’s only $5-10k a year for radio spots, ribbon cuttings, whatever.

That too though would be too heavy. I’d find it hard to believe that a guy outside the top 12-15 would have a big enough TPA to throw the numbers out significantly. i.e. Sharks pay Tracey $100k and TP pays him $150k.

If Wizard has some inside info on Tracey that he doesn’t admit to, maybe it’s $200k + $25k TPA or something like that. Still quite high for a depth guy, but not ridiculous. Somewhere between $150k-200k would make sense for Tracey from a cap PoV.
 

bort

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If Wizard has some inside info on Tracey that he doesn’t admit to, maybe it’s $200k + $25k TPA or something like that. Still quite high for a depth guy, but not ridiculous. Somewhere between $150k-200k would make sense for Tracey from a cap PoV.
All he even did last season was play every game, equal top scorer and come 4th in our MVP voting despite not having a clear position in the team (and almost never had a bad game as an outside back).

He signed beginning May when he had 4 tries in 5 games as a starter so while I'd guess he probably values somewhere around 160-200* I could see it being more like 200-240 if there was a strong expectation he was going to be right in the contest to be a starting back over those three years.
From that point on he was named to start each week and did play well. And I do think he is right in the contest for a centre spot next year.
Ramien, who I think was overpaid given the circumstances surrounding his signing, wasn't really twice as good as Tracey was.

I certainly don't think Metcalf has done anything to warrant a 200-250k upgrade and extension before even setting foot on the pre-season paddock this season. And I don't think he has earned or deserves to be paid the same as Connor either, even if he may have a higher 'potential' value.

*as you said it is hard to guess these cheaper guys as you see way less reported figures for comparisons, and for a bloke on 120k an upgrade to 160k is a pretty good increase, so I expect most players early contracts move kind of slow. eg 60-80, 120, 180, 300, 600, 750 with better players making bigger/quicker jumps.
Experience and leadership qualities (and team needs) can keep increasing value even when player hits their ceiling.
Dale for example is unlikely to play better for us in 2022 than he has been for Storm but is getting a 580k up to 750k raise... and we are happy with it
 

Sparkles

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All he even did last season was play every game, equal top scorer and come 4th in our MVP voting despite not having a clear position in the team (and almost never had a bad game as an outside back).

He signed beginning May when he had 4 tries in 5 games as a starter so while I'd guess he probably values somewhere around 160-200* I could see it being more like 200-240 if there was a strong expectation he was going to be right in the contest to be a starting back over those three years.
From that point on he was named to start each week and did play well. And I do think he is right in the contest for a centre spot next year.
Ramien, who I think was overpaid given the circumstances surrounding his signing, wasn't really twice as good as Tracey was.

I certainly don't think Metcalf has done anything to warrant a 200-250k upgrade and extension before even setting foot on the pre-season paddock this season. And I don't think he has earned or deserves to be paid the same as Connor either, even if he may have a higher 'potential' value.

*as you said it is hard to guess these cheaper guys as you see way less reported figures for comparisons, and for a bloke on 120k an upgrade to 160k is a pretty good increase, so I expect most players early contracts move kind of slow. eg 60-80, 120, 180, 300, 600, 750 with better players making bigger/quicker jumps.
Experience and leadership qualities (and team needs) can keep increasing value even when player hits their ceiling.
Dale for example is unlikely to play better for us in 2022 than he has been for Storm but is getting a 580k up to 750k raise... and we are happy with it
It's so hard to measure the value of the current squad. You do feel like they're playing under their potential because we've seen glimpses of how good they can be. I can't see any reason why several of our squad can't emerge as genuine star players if the support is there.
From everything we've heard it's all heading in the right direction. The coaching staff is looking really good. We've got some great signings coming in with a mix of experience and raw talent. There's close to enough depth to challenge for positions and push the starters (ala Kennedy). It's all on Fitz really to get the most out of them.

Where we are today, anything less than a top 6 finish next year would have to be judged a fail. #infitzwetrust
 

snowman

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metcalf had to do what was best for him and that is find a club to play first grade

this year moylan, hynes and bt are all ahead of him

next year he would still have bt and hynes ahead of him

if the warriors want him now, they can cough up a prop or CHT
 

Sparkles

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metcalf had to do what was best for him and that is find a club to play first grade

this year moylan, hynes and bt are all ahead of him

next year he would still have bt and hynes ahead of him

if the warriors want him now, they can cough up a prop or CHT
I mean, we were able to sign Nicho for the same reason we're losing Metcalf. A good result all in all.
 
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now gun five-eighth Dylan Brown is the latest Eel to be linked to a rival club, with Channel 7’s Michelle Bishop tellingSEN: “Dylan Brown is another one, the Warriors are keen, he is on their radar.”

Reports are that the Warrior’s are chasing Dylan Brown.
If they land him, there is another road block in his NRL ambition at the Warriors.
Shame he jumped ship.
 
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