Official Jesse Ramien

ben said:
Why? They absolutely pumped us in the middle last time. Cam made something like 178 tackles. If ever there was a game for a 4 forward bench it’s this one.
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HaroldBishop said:
In the first half.

I agree though, we can't be dominated in the middle again, 4 forwards for mine.
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The last forward who gets maybe 10 minutes deep in the second half isn't doing much to turn any of this around though
 
HaroldBishop said:
Yeah it's a risk but I'd take it.
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Fair. I get both sides. Royce was immense last week and could probably have played the extra 10 minutes effectively. I'd prefer the power game, but if we need a reshuffle penrith will obliterate the weakness.
 
Same. BHU provides more relief to the forwards than Atko.

Why is Nikora moving?

It seems as though Fitz uses Sifa at lock and prop, a role Jack has done on multiple occasions as well.
 
Proud Shark said:
Fair. I get both sides. Royce was immense last week and could probably have played the extra 10 minutes effectively. I'd prefer the power game, but if we need a reshuffle penrith will obliterate the weakness.
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They will but there's a chance of them doing that anyway. I think we need to go all in with our number one strategy rather than worry about an injury that probably won't happen.
 
bort said:
The last forward who gets maybe 10 minutes deep in the second half isn't doing much to turn any of this around though
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Yeah but thats not what happened last week. These forwads that are doing small minutes are generally on either side of half time. Toby and Oregon came back on last week with around 20 minutes to go. A forward coming on with a few minutes left is as much use as Atko coming on at the same time. My point was strengthening our middle should be part of our gameplan, Atko doesnt do this.
 
ben said:
Yeah but thats not what happened last week. These forwads that are doing small minutes are generally on either side of half time. Toby and Oregon came back on last week with around 20 minutes to go. A forward coming on with a few minutes left is as much use as Atko coming on at the same time. My point was strengthening our middle should be part of our gameplan, Atko doesnt do this.
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It's exactly what happened last week. Sifa subbed on at 52 minutes and played the next 16.
And cowboys scored a try two minutes after he came on.

Could have easily spread that 16 between Royce (12), Jack (35) and Oregon (34) and had a safety valve player on the bench.

I'm not saying it is necessarily the right move but I'm unconvinced there is an especially strong case 12 minutes of BHU (why would he get more minutes than Sifa and Royce did last week if he's behind them?) who didn't even make the 17 is what locks down our middle (52 minutes in) and turns the game for us.

I think I actually slightly prefer the 4 forwards but I don't think it is a huge value play over the other option, or prevents us being dominated in the middle for the game.
 
Agree. Don't understand Atko on the bench. Have had a 4 forward bench for 95% of games this year - why change it.
 
bort said:
It's exactly what happened last week. Sifa subbed on at 52 minutes and played the next 16.
And cowboys scored a try two minutes after he came on.

Could have easily spread that 16 between Royce (12), Jack (35) and Oregon (34) and had a safety valve player on the bench.

I'm not saying it is necessarily the right move but I'm unconvinced there is an especially strong case 12 minutes of BHU (why would he get more minutes than Sifa and Royce did last week if he's behind them?) who didn't even make the 17 is what locks down our middle (52 minutes in) and turns the game for us.

I think I actually slightly prefer the 4 forwards but I don't think it is a huge value play over the other option, or prevents us being dominated in the middle for the game.
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No its not. I wouldnt say 12 minutes into the 2nd half is "deep". That was the point. And those tries were through Ramien. Our middle stood up all night with a 4 forward rotation.

Also, there is no chance that BHU is a "same for same" swap with Sifa. BHU is a prop and thats it. Sifa is used in every position in the forwards. Last week he started at lock and shifted to prop.

To the point of game plan - it changes if we had a back on the bench. And yes, having 28 minutes left in a half is more than enough for a player to impact the result.

No ones saying its a huge value play either, but its most definately a decision that can influence performance.

An example of what it could look like is

25min
Toby off - Hazelton on,
Oregon off - Williams on

35min
Cam off - Williams to lock - Hunt on.

50min
Hunt off - BHU on

60min
Haze off - Toby on
Cam on - Williams off

65min
BHU off - Oregon on

Pretty standard shark rotation. So if we have Atko then the only middle forward he replaces is Cam, our middle forward and our pack leader. So it would definately influence our middle defences.
 
You're too focused on what Atko can do if everything goes well. He is for if things don't go well. He might get 0 minutes and if he did I am sure the other 6 middles can cover the 80 minutes.
The coach won't sub him into the middle just to get him minutes or if it won't benefit us.

Sifa the hybrid middle/utility playing 16 minutes didn't make or break our middle if it stood up for 52 minutes before he came on. Contributed to, sure.

Your play breakdown has Hunt playing 15minutes with halftime in the middle, surely he can play another 5-10, and Toby, Cam or Oregon can come on a touch earlier, who haven't been on for 35+, 25+ or 40+ (with the + being halftime) based on what you've put.
Oregon doesn't need a 40 minute rest including halftime.

I'm for 4 forwards, I just don't think it is dramatically advantageous.
I think we are probably underdogs enough we need to play to even a small advantage of a fresh middle vs covering for if things go wrong.
We need everything to go right.
 
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