Huge Part of our Problem

[Shiredad]

I totally agree.

I think this is a major problem for us. We are allowing the opposition far too long to get back on side to set their defence. We should be running at them while they are still back peddling. This would help us to gain metres and penalties. This is proabably part of the reason why we aren't scoring tries as well.

I'll just start by flagging that I don't know much, but ...

It seems to me that we've always been that way. One example is I remember the dragons away game last year - noticing off scrums that when they fed the scrum, they got clean ball and made a few metres before we stopped them. Compared to our scrum, the dragons defenders were getting off the line and up in our faces much quicker. I noticed it about 4 or 5 times, but thought that it was more that we weren't rushing forward in defence. But could it be that we just get slow play the balls?

 

[Brandu]

Tony Caine is young and could adapt to a faster game easier than Hughes, without us having to sacrifice our defence by selecting Seu Seu. I suggest we trial out Tony and see how that goes, with Hughes on the bench.

Seu Seu has made 43 tackles in 2 games, with 4 misses and 0 errors. Tony Caine has made 56 tackles in 3 games, with 3 misses and 5 errors. Seu Seu gets through more defensive work.

 

[bort]

more detailed hooker comparison

In 2 games Terry has attempted 47 tackles, of those 47, 4 were 1-on-1, 2 were considered ineffective and he missed 4. Thus Terry has made effective tackles 87% of the time.
In addition to this he has run 3 times, all from hooker, for a total of 34 meters, an average of 11.
Terry has given away no penalties and has made no errors.

In 3 games Tony has attempted 59 tackles, of those 59, 1 was 1-on-1, 0 were considered ineffective and he missed 3. Thus Tony has made effective tackles 95% of the time.
In addition to this he has run 19 times, 11 from hooker, for a total of 133 meters, an average of 12.
Tony has given away no penalties, broken 1 tackle, and has provided a line break assist however he has made 5 errors.

In 6 games Corey has attempted 185 tackles, of those 185, 10 were 1-on-1, 10 were considered ineffective and he missed 18. Thus Corey has made effective tackles 84% of the time.
In addition to this he has run 19 times, 14 from hooker, for a total of 144 meters, an average of 7.5.
Corey has given away no penalties and has broken 3 tackles, providing a line break, and has made just 1 error.

 

[hitman124]

enough of your stats this isnt a dating agency... start and dominate in the vic state league then ill send your profile down south to ricky....

Do you know who the closest club to ballarat is mate?

we had one here and i did a preseason with them, but we got scrapped after one game due to lack of funding, ahhh good ol ballarat highlanders.

 

[bort]

Do you know who the closest club to ballarat is mate?

we had one here and i did a preseason with them, but we got scrapped after one game due to lack of funding, ahhh good ol ballarat highlanders.

http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-2121-0-0-0

 

[sharkboy18]

In 2 games Terry has attempted 47 tackles, of those 47, 4 were 1-on-1, 2 were considered ineffective and he missed 4. Thus Terry has made effective tackles 87% of the time.
In addition to this he has run 3 times, all from hooker, for a total of 34 meters, an average of 11.
Terry has given away no penalties and has made no errors.

In 3 games Tony has attempted 59 tackles, of those 59, 1 was 1-on-1, 0 were considered ineffective and he missed 3. Thus Tony has made effective tackles 95% of the time.
In addition to this he has run 19 times, 11 from hooker, for a total of 133 meters, an average of 12.
Tony has given away no penalties, broken 1 tackle, and has provided a line break assist however he has made 5 errors.

In 6 games Corey has attempted 185 tackles, of those 185, 10 were 1-on-1, 10 were considered ineffective and he missed 18. Thus Corey has made effective tackles 84% of the time.
In addition to this he has run 19 times, 14 from hooker, for a total of 144 meters, an average of 7.5.
Corey has given away no penalties and has broken 3 tackles, providing a line break, and has made just 1 error.

So with all those stats, who do u think r the best 2 choices for starting and bench? Personally, I reckon Seu Seu and Caine r the prominent choices, but of course I may be wrong, who do u guys think?

 

[bort]

So with all those stats, who do u think r the best 2 choices for starting and bench? Personally, I reckon Seu Seu and Caine r the prominent choices, but of course I may be wrong, who do u guys think?

comparing average statistics...

Corey is very ineffective in attack (7.5 meters per run) but is the hardest working defender with 31 effective tackles a game. However he does stuff up 5 per game, which also makes him the least effective defender.

Terry attacks rarely (1.5 times per game) but makes 11 meters per run. He makes 20.5 tackles per game and is ineffective or misses only 3 per game.

Tony is the most effective attacker with 6 runs per game for 12 meters each. He is also our most effective, but least active, tackler (just) with 19 effective tackles per game for only 1 miss. However he makes 2 errors per game.

Statistically speaking id say Corey and Terry, as this gets us a strong defensive work rate and is essentially error free. However, if Tony can drop his error rate to 1 per game or less I believe we can make up for the 11 or so less tackles that dropping Corey creates and helps our desperately needed attack and speed at hooker. This also means only 4 missed or ineffective tackles per game, one less that Corey himself racks up.

Just to rub it in Isaac makes 5 runs per game at 9 meters for 7 tackle breaks, 2 line breaks, a line break assist and 2 tries.
Defensively he makes 32.5 effective tackles per game and stuffs up 4. He makes an error every 2 games, and gives away a penalty every 3. Making him a harder working defender than everyone and more effective than Corey and Terry. Isaac runs less than Corey and Tony, but makes more meters than only Corey, however, his 2 tries suggest this isnt an indication of bad attack.

 

[ROB SHARK]

So with the 3 hookers we have which two would you choose? I would go with Seu Seu and TC.

 

[sharky94]

I would go with seu seu and TC aswell but corey is a strong defender.
Lucky i'm not a coach because i don't know who to pick do you guys???

 

[Brandu]

imo, the team looked good when terry was on the field against the Raiders, he brings that spark off the bench that out team really lacks. TC to start with Terry off the bench.

 

[sharks195]

I'd still stick with Caine and Hughes.

 

[peachey]

So with all those stats, who do u think r the best 2 choices for starting and bench? Personally, I reckon Seu Seu and Caine r the prominent choices, but of course I may be wrong, who do u guys think?

lets just say it shouldnt involve corey hughes, he is to slow, his passing is slow and rubbish, doesnt run from DH, doesnt draw penalties from markers..GET RID OF HIM

 

[bort]

as i said, if caine can get his error rate right down then id go with him and seu seu. but in his 3 games he made 5 errors and with the rest of the team regularly dropping ball that just to many

 

[JimBob]

I can see it coming, Hughes signs with another club mid season and then dominates his remaining games for the sharks, you watch..it will happen.

 

[slide rule]

I can see it coming, Hughes signs with another club mid season and then dominates his remaining games for the sharks, you watch..it will happen.

That's very unlikely but I hope it does happen. At least we got half a decent season out of him.

 

[JimBob]

That's very unlikely but I hope it does happen. At least we got half a decent season out of him.

lol yer it would be good..

 

[KELPIE]

Great post GW. It's always so frustrating when Ricky only takes the field with one prop on the bench. I believe we need at least four props (2xStarters/2xBench) in each game, especially with three 80 min players in the back row. Dougy and Snowden are going great but have definitely lost something on last year. Norrie isn't bad but needs to be fired up to have an impact. O'D looks underdone, maybe he'll come good however I hope Selms gets thrown into the side. If we could pick up Taylor that would be awesome however another option or as well as could be Mannah's bro.
The only real issue with this would be the average age of our forward pack and no real stand-out leader.. But jee imagine those boys growing up in a pack together, they would be devastating!

As for the Hooker discussion, good stats Bort, however we can also look at kicking game, of which it would appear Cain has the better of the three,

Cain: 3 games | 4 kicks - 112 mtrs | offloads 2
Hughes: 6 games | 5 kicks - 165 mtrs | offloads 2
Terry: 2 games | 1 kick - 16 mtrs | offloads 0
(Offloads thrown in for the hell of it)

The other stat to look at I believe would be average minutes per game. Normally a hooker needs time to read the game allowing better judgement for kicking, running and which players to pick off - in essence attack.

Cain: 3 games/102 mins | 34 average
Hughes: 6 games/296 mins | 49 average
Terry: 2 games/74 mins | 37 average

I suspect you give either Cain or Terry over half a game of football and you will see even better results out of their attack and in Cain's position maybe less errors/brain snaps? However this would need to be looked at with fitness and effectiveness over time.
In answering the question however I would like to see Cain start, Terry sub. At least for one game.

Just for fun, Joudo:
6 games | 2 Try | 2 Try Ass | 4 line Brks | 2 LB Ass | 4 Off | 20 tklBrks
Runs 40/347 mtrs, avg 8 | 170 tackles, 5 miss, 2 inf | 15 kicks/593 mtrs
2 Errors | 3 Penalties
Of course, NYC is not NRL

 

[Megashark]

O'D looks underdone

Who?

 

[BurgoShark]

Who?

I'm guessing he means Donnelly ????

Also, re: the hooker agument, you guys can keep bringing up stats as much as you like, but we are not playing American Football here guys. Some things can't be measured by stats. Few could contest that:

- Hughes gives the quickest and most accurate service out of dummy half
- Hughes is the best defender
- Hughes brings much-needed experience

... and I don't like Corey Hughes at all. I just think he's the best choice we've got for now.

 

[dier]

Just for fun, Joudo:
6 games | 2 Try | 2 Try Ass | 4 line Brks | 2 LB Ass | 4 Off | 20 tklBrks
Runs 40/347 mtrs, avg 8 | 170 tackles, 5 miss, 2 inf | 15 kicks/593 mtrs
2 Errors | 3 Penalties
Of course, NYC is not NRL

WOW! I know its NYC but still thats some Impressive stats. He must really be pushing for a first grade spot.