Official Cameron McInnes

[Western Sharkie]

Yeah Luke Lewis said similar on ABC radio

Really??
I’ll take that then!
Would imagine he is a better judge than most of us in here.

 

[bort]

Really??
I’ll take that then!
Would imagine he is a better judge than most of us in here.

Been very well established people in here know more than players, coaches and recruitment managers

But I do rate Luke so I’ll concede that it is… a bad look for our team… that one of our players played really well… I wish he… played worse like the others?

Not ideal to create the opportunity or a better outcome than a win but an incredible effort none the less

 

[Western Sharkie]

Been very well established people in here know more than players, coaches and recruitment managers

But I do rate Luke so I’ll concede that it is… a bad look for our team… that one of our players played really well… I wish he… played worse like the others?

Not ideal to create the opportunity or a better outcome than a win but an incredible effort none the less

Really? You had to go there!

At no stage did I say anything against Cam and I have repeatedly said it was an amazing effort by him but you had to still go there and make a sly comment.

You tend to do that a lot when quoting me so I’m pretty used to it by now!

 

[bort]

Really? You had to go there!

At no stage did I say anything against Cam and I have repeatedly said it was an amazing effort by him but you had to still go there and make a sly comment.

You tend to do that a lot when quoting me so I’m pretty used to it by now!

Other than away I’m not sure where I’m supposed to go
What does being impressed but disappointed about it achieve?

It was an amazing effort we should be disappointed in because we still lost?
It’s not to be celebrated because it’s an individual accomplishment in a team game? But we celebrate individual outcomes all the time.

We have too many players not playing well we can’t focus positively on the one bloke who did something incredible?

You said do we really want a player with that record?
Yeah, I want Cam McInnes in the team

Really??
I’ll take that then!
Would imagine he is a better judge than most of us in here.

All a matter of interpretation about what is a sly comment I guess

 

[Western Sharkie]

Other than away I’m not sure where I’m supposed to go
What does being impressed but disappointed about it achieve?

It was an amazing effort we should be disappointed in because we still lost?
It’s not to be celebrated because it’s an individual accomplishment in a team game? But we celebrate individual outcomes all the time.

We have too many players not playing well we can’t focus positively on the one bloke who did something incredible?

You said do we really want a player with that record?
Yeah, I want Cam McInnes in the team


All a matter of interpretation about what is a sly comment I guess

You’ve miss interpreted the bold.

I never said I don’t want him in our team, playing for us, I’m saying do we want a record like that as it is not necessarily a positive one for the team.

I’m sure you knew that but you do like to play with words.

 

[Yes]

Well played CAM you worked unbelievable last night easy our best

 

[Gumby]

Needs to be named captain next year.

 

[Capital_Shark]

We can also emphatically put to bed the question marks from some people about this guys ability to still play 80 minutes.

I still think there’s merit in starting him at hooker for the first 20 minutes with Williams at lock, then move Cam to lock and bring on Brailey from the bench to see if it’ll help Blayke at all. If not, then the 13 jersey is Cams as far as im concerned.

If the reason BB isn't digging very deep into his trick bag (that we know is deeper) is because he's playing 80 & that would change with lower mins I'd absolutely be in favour of this. Not saying I still don't like it however. I'd just be totally sold if 60min BB offered a spark 80min BB can't.

 

[Capital_Shark]

I’m not saying it’s not.
If you read my post, I said it was ”Superhuman” but as a team, do we really want a player with that record?

I‘m suggesting not, because it’s a bad look for “the team” (It is a team support right?)
How many teams win games when they have 1 player as a stand out like that in D?
My uneducated guess (but a few have come to mind) that it’s more often than not a loss for their side.

Id much rather an even defensive effort shared across the team and a “W”, than an incredible/ superhuman/ outstanding accomplishment stat and a loss.

I get you. If you got a guy making 80 tkls it tells me you had to defend ya balls off all night & lost. Winning sides don't present enough opportunity for a single player to tackle that much.

We beat Storm in the GF partly by making Smith make a million tackles.

Its an amazing individual effort but not really one ya want. Doubt Cam ever reflects fondly on the night.

 

[bort]

I get you. If you got a guy making 80 tkls it tells me you had to defend ya balls off all night & lost. Winning sides don't present enough opportunity for a single player to tackle that much.

We beat Storm in the GF partly by making Smith make a million tackles.

Its an amazing individual effort but not really one ya want. Doubt Cam ever reflects fondly on the night.

Trying to work over Smith and McInnes being a relentless tackling machine are two very different circumstances in my eyes.
Penrith didn’t win because they made McInnes make a lot of tackles.

I can remember defensive efforts I made fondly, I’d hope when he hangs up the boots he looks back fondly on a night everything was against us and he did something remarkable. He should be proud of his effort.

Nobody wanted him to get the record but he did. The club didn’t, he did.

Getting a lot of player of the week votes. Also not sure many would have been watching with him on like 72 thinking ‘damn I hope they take him off’

Nobody is happy about the circumstances but he could have called it a night at 69 and asked for a break and nobody would have questioned him. But he kept putting his body into contact after contact to bleed for his teammates who were in a **** spot.

I wasn’t thinking pre season or pre game I hope he breaks the all time tackle mark and is the first person to average over a tackle per minute in a full NRL game but I’m proud to have him and don’t think the **** circumstances (not of his making) detract from the accomplishment.

If his contact was up would it make him more or less attractive to other clubs?
Did he increase the amount of respect other teams fans have for him?

Let’s never make him do it again

 

[Capital_Shark]

Trying to work over Smith and McInnes being a relentless tackling machine are two very different circumstances in my eyes.
Penrith didn’t win because they made McInnes make a lot of tackles.

I agree.

I can remember defensive efforts I made fondly, I’d hope when he hangs up the boots he looks back fondly on a night everything was against us and he did something remarkable. He should be proud of his effort.

Nobody wanted him to get the record but he did. The club didn’t, he did.

Getting a lot of player of the week votes. Also not sure many would have been watching with him on like 72 thinking ‘damn I hope they take him off’

Nobody is happy about the circumstances but he could have called it a night at 69 and asked for a break and nobody would have questioned him. But he kept putting his body into contact after contact to bleed for his teammates who were in a **** spot.

I wasn’t thinking pre season or pre game I hope he breaks the all time tackle mark and is the first person to average over a tackle per minute in a full NRL game but I’m proud to have him and don’t think the **** circumstances (not of his making) detract from the accomplishment.

If his contact was up would it make him more or less attractive to other clubs?
Did he increase the amount of respect other teams fans have for him?

Close your eyes, take 10 slow deep breaths & think of 5 solid things around you. Relax now. Its gonna be ok, nobody is detracting from his achievement.

While its awesome to have a bloke who will do that those aren't the sorta records you wanna be in a position to break.

Let’s never make him do it again

There ya go!

 

[Yes]

For me this clearly shows that he needs to play 80 each week

 

[ben]

This is our captain.

 

[BurgoShark]

Trying to work over Smith and McInnes being a relentless tackling machine are two very different circumstances in my eyes.
Penrith didn’t win because they made McInnes make a lot of tackles.

I can remember defensive efforts I made fondly, I’d hope when he hangs up the boots he looks back fondly on a night everything was against us and he did something remarkable. He should be proud of his effort.

Nobody wanted him to get the record but he did. The club didn’t, he did.

Getting a lot of player of the week votes. Also not sure many would have been watching with him on like 72 thinking ‘damn I hope they take him off’

Nobody is happy about the circumstances but he could have called it a night at 69 and asked for a break and nobody would have questioned him. But he kept putting his body into contact after contact to bleed for his teammates who were in a **** spot.

I wasn’t thinking pre season or pre game I hope he breaks the all time tackle mark and is the first person to average over a tackle per minute in a full NRL game but I’m proud to have him and don’t think the **** circumstances (not of his making) detract from the accomplishment.

If his contact was up would it make him more or less attractive to other clubs?
Did he increase the amount of respect other teams fans have for him?

Let’s never make him do it again

Most times I’m happy to call it a night after 69.

 

[BurgoShark]

Weighing in on @bort's comments here...

While it is definitely an outstanding individual effort, having Cam play 80 minutes and work his dick off is not the best use of the player. Obviously it's beyond the coach's control in some games though.

Here are the two games I have fully modelled, plus the Panthers game*. This is consistent with everything I learned about McInnes from his 2022 performances.

- The rate at which Cam made tackles in the Panthers game is not remarkable (for him). It's consistent with his other performances
- As his minutes go up past about 60, in general you will get a similar work rate in defence from him, but his output in attack will suffer**
- Since McInnes always tackles his dick off at the same rate, in a game where the team possession rate is really poor, you can always expect this situation.



* Note for nerds. I haven't fully modelled the Panthers game yet. I just used the 80 minute stats and assumed 55 minutes ball in play (which is the amount I saw for all three games I fully modelled this year).

** This doesn't mean Cam is the problem. It just indicates that you are likely to get a better overall performance by having someone else play 15-25 of Cam's minutes.

 

[snowman]

the other thing you need to think about, is the penrith players ran at him, knowing he was tiring and knowing he would stay out there

there was a set in the second half, down 22-0,- where JFH was running across the field then ran into mcinnes

next play, same thing, they ran at him, he made 4 tackles in the set, it was targeted

great effort from him to take that sort of punishment and keep going, bloke is a freak

 

[Wilson]

Weighing in on @bort's comments here...

While it is definitely an outstanding individual effort, having Cam play 80 minutes and work his dick off is not the best use of the player. Obviously it's beyond the coach's control in some games though.

Here are the two games I have fully modelled, plus the Panthers game*. This is consistent with everything I learned about McInnes from his 2022 performances.

- The rate at which Cam made tackles in the Panthers game is not remarkable (for him). It's consistent with his other performances
- As his minutes go up past about 60, in general you will get a similar work rate in defence from him, but his output in attack will suffer**
- Since McInnes always tackles his dick off at the same rate, in a game where the team possession rate is really poor, you can always expect this situation.

View attachment 29083

* Note for nerds. I haven't fully modelled the Panthers game yet. I just used the 80 minute stats and assumed 55 minutes ball in play (which is the amount I saw for all three games I fully modelled this year).

** This doesn't mean Cam is the problem. It just indicates that you are likely to get a better overall performance by having someone else play 15-25 of Cam's minutes.

Respectfully, isn’t it par for the course that a player will have better attacking output for 60-65 mins rather than 80 if your defensive output is consistently high?

 

[BurgoShark]

Respectfully, isn’t it par for the course that a player will have better attacking output for 60-65 mins rather than 80 if your defensive output is consistently high?

Not necessarily. Some players drop off way before that. If someone turns into a spud in attack after 23 minutes, there is probably little difference between whether he plays 65 or 80. For Cam you can wind the dial higher than most players, but you can't dial it up to 80.

I've done some work in previous seasons which suggested that Williams and BHU drop-off when playing more than 35-40, for Toby it's about 45-50, and for Finucane it is ~60.

That's your best five veteran forwards That tells me that in a game where they are all healthy, I want to plan for each of them to play 5-10 minutes less than the point where they are likely to decline... and by extension it tells me where I should try to fit the other guys in around them.

There is also a myth that players miss more tackles or don't defend as eagerly when they are tired. I've done some work which shows that at least for the Sharks of 2021 and 2022, this is not true. Tired players don't miss more tackles or do any less work in defence. When players are tired they keep working their asses off in defence, but they are less busy in attack.

 

[bort]

Not necessarily. Some players drop off way before that. If someone turns into a spud in attack after 23 minutes, there is probably little difference between whether he plays 65 or 80. For Cam you can wind the dial higher than most players, but you can't dial it up to 80.

I've done some work in previous seasons which suggested that Williams and BHU drop-off when playing more than 35-40, and for Toby it's about 4-5.

FTFY

 

[Wilson]

Not necessarily. Some players drop off way before that. If someone turns into a spud in attack after 23 minutes, there is probably little difference between whether he plays 65 or 80. For Cam you can wind the dial higher than most players, but you can't dial it up to 80.

I've done some work in previous seasons which suggested that Williams and BHU drop-off when playing more than 35-40, and for Toby it's about 45-50.

Oh I’m not disputing it happens earlier for some players, but as a general rule I’d expect it to be pretty standard that a players attacking output would diminish post 60-65mins, especially if they have a high defensive work rate.