Official Cameron McInnes

[Sevshark]

It hasn’t but he would be pretty proactive at hooker though

Have never understood this arguement.

"Blayke offers nothing offensively, quick let's hook him for someone who offers nothing offensively."

 

[Deleted member 2543]

Have never understood this arguement.

"Blayke offers nothing offensively, quick let's hook him for someone who offers nothing offensively."

 

[Blix]

Have never understood this arguement.

"Blayke offers nothing offensively, quick let's hook him for someone who offers nothing offensively."

By nothing offensively are you talking about someone that makes nearly twice the run metres, a super quick play of the ball, nearly 50 tackles a game instead of 42 and about twice the offloads? (This is based on the last 3 years at hooker when at St George)

Yes Blayke has a few more try assists, but apart from that he doesn’t seem to win out at all.

I am not saying it is the right move and that cam would be as good now……but Blayke has really done sfa this season and Cameron McInnes was pretty darn good at hooker.

A number of mates are stains fans and were proper pieved with the club when they lost him.

 

[Deleted member 2543]

I think you are making this up...

By nothing offensively are you talking about someone that makes nearly twice the run metres

Yearly averages were 30, 61, 62. Blayke is 43, 41,43. Averaging that out it is not "nearly twice" as much. You might want to check that your Epson calculator hasn't been hacked by the Russians.

Notwithstanding them having completely different coaches, playing styles, and rules, the difference here is maybe 1-2 times per game where he takes the tackle instead of finding a runner. Running metres is completely irrelevant.

a super quick play of the ball

Has that been measured? Does he get quick ptb when he scoots on his own, or only when he runs as a forward with support?

nearly 50 tackles a game instead of 42

This is just completely incorrect. Across the period you are referencing Blayke makes more tackles per game. 51 vs 47. It's still irrelevant though, because making a few extra tackles per game could just be the result of being on a team who has the ball less.

and about twice the offloads?

Offloads! Now that's a stat which tells us who the best hookers are!

Yes Blayke has a few more try assists, but apart from that he doesn’t seem to win out at all.

Irrelevant. Try assist is a fantasy stat. It doesn't tell us who is good.

Blayke has really done sfa this season

Coach seems happy with him. I think he has been great. Needs to clean up the errors, but otherwise he is playing exactly how the team needs him to. Solid in defence, great service, play a link-man role when needed, talk to his halves, etc.

Cameron McInnes was pretty darn good at hooker.

That must be why they moved him to lock.

A number of mates are stains fans and were proper pieved with the club when they lost him.

... which was after he moved to lock and became their best player.

 

[Sevshark]

I think you are making this up...



Yearly averages were 30, 61, 62. Blayke is 43, 41,43.

Notwithstanding them having completely different coaches, playing styles, and rules the difference here is maybe 1-2 times per game where he takes the tackle instead of finding a runner. Running metres is completely irrelevant.


Has that been measured? Does he get quick ptb when he scoots on his own, or only when he runs as a forward with support?


This is just completely incorrect. Across the period you are referencing Blayke makes more tackles per game. 51 vs 47. It's still irrelevant though, because a few extra tackles per game could just be the difference between being on a team who has the ball more often.


Offloads! Now that's a stat which tells us who the best hookers are!



Irrelevant.


Coach seems happy with him. I think he has been great. Needs to clean up the errors, but otherwise he is playing exactly how the team needs him to. Solid in defence, great service, play a link-man role when needed, talk to his halves, etc.


That must be why they moved him to lock.


... which was after he moved to lock and became their best player.

Couldn't have said it better if I tried

Only thing I'd add is my captain signing elsewhere would piss me off too.

 

[Blix]

Yeah true forgot last year at lock.

However, Cam does run more metres from hooker and would look to run from hooker. Which Brailey has really not done all season.

Cam does have a quick play of the ball.

Yes you guys might think that Brailey has been great but that is an opinion. Which a lot of other supporters don’t agree with.

Me throwing out Cam as an option was just that an easy option that could be tried without shaking up the team line up.

Either way, he was good at the stains at hooker and definitely didn’t deserve a berating for suggesting him as a valid hooker option!

 

[Deleted member 2543]

Yeah true forgot last year at lock.

However, Cam does run more metres from hooker and would look to run from hooker. Which Brailey has really not done all season.

Cam does have a quick play of the ball.

Yes you guys might think that Brailey has been great but that is an opinion. Which a lot of other supporters don’t agree with.

Me throwing out Cam as an option was just that an easy option that could be tried without shaking up the team line up.

Either way, he was good at the stains at hooker and definitely didn’t deserve a berating for suggesting him as a valid hooker option!

Not berating you mate. I pointed out the flaws in your argument. That’s not the same thing. I never said you were dumb for saying it, or anything like that. Attacking poor arguments is fair game. Attacking people is poor form.

McInnes to hooker might be a great idea, but I haven't seen anyone actually make a good argument for it. What it boils down to for everyone is "I don't like the way Brailey is playing". That's not a reason why McInnes would be better.

 

[Sharkfox]

Mcinnes 9 off the bench, Graham bench lock when he returns, see if he can play make in the middle, definitely has a better passing game than Dale

 

[Gumby]

Not berating you mate. I pointed out the flaws in your argument. That’s not the same thing. I never said you were dumb for saying it, or anything like that. Attacking poor arguments is fair game. Attacking people is poor form.

McInnes to hooker might be a great idea, but I haven't seen anyone actually make a good argument for it. What it boils down to for everyone is "I don't like the way Brailey is playing". That's not a reason why McInnes would be better.

Said it numerous times, mcinness should start at 9 for the first 15 minutes then bring brailey on for the rest of the game. Allows probably to avoid the heavy collisions at the start and that might assist with opening up his running game because he won’t be as tired.

 

[Deleted member 2543]

Said it numerous times, mcinness should start at 9 for the first 15 minutes then bring brailey on for the rest of the game. Allows probably to avoid the heavy collisions at the start and that might assist with opening up his running game because he won’t be as tired.

Ok. So now please show me evidence that Brailey being less-tired change anything.

Does he miss more tackles the more minutes he plays?

Does he run less the more minutes he plays?

Back when he was coming off the bench, did he run more?

 

[bort]

Also you know who makes more tackles between McInnes at 9 and Blayke at 9?

It’s Blayke at 9 with McInnes on at 13

Overall defensive workload isn’t a concern

Ok. So now please show me evidence that Brailey being less-tired change anything.

Does he miss more tackles the more minutes he plays?

Does he run less the more minutes he plays?

Back when he was coming off the bench, did he run more?

I don’t think we have good info on how Blayke would play if he knew he just had 65 minutes ahead of him instead of 80. I don’t think it’d be that outrageous to try McInnes at the start. Some teams def try and target him early which might impact his effectiveness later. I’d be open to looking at this option to see if it did open Blayke up at all.

 

[Deleted member 2543]

Also you know who makes more tackles between McInnes at 9 and Blayke at 9?

It’s Blayke at 9 with McInnes on at 13

Overall defensive workload isn’t a concern


I don’t think we have good info on how Blayke would play if he knew he just had 65 minutes ahead of him instead of 80. I don’t think it’d be that outrageous to try McInnes at the start. Some teams def try and target him early which might impact his effectiveness later. I’d be open to looking at this option to see if it did open Blayke up at all.

Jets tried it in 2018. Outside of one game didn’t run any more than he is does now. He’s just not that guy. Never has been.

… but this still says nothing about whether or not it would make the team better. Say you play Brailey for 60 and Cam for 20… that is 20 minutes of all of those good “McInnes as a forward” things that you give up, and 20 minutes extra McInnes has in his legs when he goes in to the forwards to try to get those quick ptb’s.

Even if you can make a good case for Brailey playing less (which nobody has yet), you still need to make a case that taking McInnes out of the forward rotation for 20 minutes is a good idea.

The only reasonable argument I have seen is “say you’ve got Jack Williams on the bench as the extra forward, you know you will get a high energy 20 from him. It might be preferable to give a high minute player a bit of a rest rather than having Jack play 0 minutes”. That isn’t specific to Brailey though. It could be applied to anyone playing more than half a game.

 

[Blix]

I think you are making this up...


Yearly averages were 30, 61, 62. Blayke is 43, 41,43. Averaging that out it is not "nearly twice" as much. You might want to check that your Epson calculator hasn't been hacked by the Russians.

Notwithstanding them having completely different coaches, playing styles, and rules, the difference here is maybe 1-2 times per game where he takes the tackle instead of finding a runner. Running metres is completely irrelevant.


Has that been measured? Does he get quick ptb when he scoots on his own, or only when he runs as a forward with support?


This is just completely incorrect. Across the period you are referencing Blayke makes more tackles per game. 51 vs 47. It's still irrelevant though, because making a few extra tackles per game could just be the result of being on a team who has the ball less.


Offloads! Now that's a stat which tells us who the best hookers are!


Irrelevant. Try assist is a fantasy stat. It doesn't tell us who is good.


Coach seems happy with him. I think he has been great. Needs to clean up the errors, but otherwise he is playing exactly how the team needs him to. Solid in defence, great service, play a link-man role when needed, talk to his halves, etc.


That must be why they moved him to lock.


... which was after he moved to lock and became their best player.

Just wanted to comment on a few points you made and stated were made up!…..as you said happy to point out flaws or attack a poor argument!

- the answer to your question “Has that been measured?” In relation to the speed of the play of the ball.

Yes they do, McInnes is consistently quick (no they don’t state whether it’s from dummy half or not)

- in relation to “This is just completely incorrect. Across the period you are referencing Blayke makes more tackles per game. 51 vs 47”

No idea how you came to that total…using nrl.com, Cam is 48 tackles a year at hooker last 4 years at stains (he did play 7 of the 18 games I can see at hooker in 2020 as well)….Blayke is 40 over the last 3 years (43 last year)

- In relation to “That must be why they moved him to lock” and “which was after he moved to lock and became their best player”

Neither point is correct, he was their player of the year in 2019 at hooker and captain as well.



Anyway, I have no idea how to use the multi quote clearly and have no intention of spending any more time on this…..just wanted to see where the discrepancy were on stats, which apart from the run metres which as I said was based on a portion of time where he played lock all seem factual……and not made up!!!!!

In relation to wanting to see a good argument for McInnes at hooker.

As you indicated there is different structures in place in each team, so there really is no way to know for sure if he will be good there unless trying it. But based off the fact Cam was stains player of the year at hooker (and by moving to lock meant hunt was in the starting 13) is an indication he has at the very minimum a chance of being good

 

[Deleted member 2543]

Sorry. Saying you made them up was not fair on you.

- the answer to your question “Has that been measured?” In relation to the speed of the play of the ball.

Yes they do, McInnes is consistently quick (no they don’t state whether it’s from dummy half or not)

No. It hasn’t ptb speed is measured, but it is not mapped against what position he was playing, or whether it was a sunny half run or not. You’d have to look at individual game by game stats for this.

I picked two random games from 2019 (rd 4 and rd 19). His ptb speeds were bottom 3 for all players on the team (slowest). Those could be outliers, or not. I don’t know.

I’m happy to say that it is faster than Brailey’s, but comparing these two players we are only talking about an extra 1-2 runs per game across 80. If he is only playing 15-20 there, how much of an advantage would this be?

- in relation to “This is just completely incorrect. Across the period you are referencing Blayke makes more tackles per game. 51 vs 47”

No idea how you came to that total…using nrl.com, Cam is 48 tackles a year at hooker last 4 years at stains (he did play 7 of the 18 games I can see at hooker in 2020 as well)….Blayke is 40 over the last 3 years (43 last year)

I ignored 2020 for McInnes. Averages are unreliable for that year. Something I learned as part of the other stats tracking I’ve done is that McInnes in 2020 sometimes he played a different position than he was listed (hooker vs lock) and other times he switched mid-game. You’d have to watch every game and figure it out.

I have actually done that. For any game McInnes played lock for more than 2/3 of his time on the field, I included his stats as a middle forward. Not perfect, but much, much better than using averages.

It’s still irrelevant though. A few tackles either way means nothing, and almost every Sharks forward has a similar work rate in defence to these two (everyone except Hunt and Kaufusi).

- In relation to “That must be why they moved him to lock” and “which was after he moved to lock and became their best player”

Neither point is correct, he was their player of the year in 2019 at hooker and captain as well.

You’re right. Dragons fans would have been sad to lose him even before he moved to lock.

As you indicated there is different structures in place in each team, so there really is no way to know for sure if he will be good there unless trying it. But based off the fact Cam was stains player of the year at hooker (and by moving to lock meant hunt was in the starting 13) is an indication he has at the very minimum a chance of being good

There is no argument here for playing Brailey less.

There is no argument here for moving McInnes out of the forwards.

 

[Western Sharkie]

I think it’s time for @Blix and @BurgoShark to talk over a “virtual beer” and repair the friendship

 

[Deleted member 2543]

I think it’s time for @Blix and @BurgoShark to talk over a “virtual beer” and repair the friendship

It's all good. He thinks I'm having a go at him, but I'm not. I'm trying to have an actual discussion. He says that Brailey should play less and that the way the team uses McInnes currently should change. I'm open to agreeing with him, but I need an explanation as to why the current method isn't working.

These things aren't linked to each other. Even if you make a case for Brailey playing less, the answer doesn't automatically become McInnes. The best solution might be to bring in a proper bench hooker and keep McInnes in his current role.

 

[HaroldBishop]

I think it’s time for @Blix and @BurgoShark to talk over a “virtual beer” and repair the friendship

Or just go and masturbate, same thing.

 

[Deleted member 2543]

Or just go and masturbate, same thing.

Do we have to do it together for it to work?

 

[bort]

It's all good. He thinks I'm having a go at him, but I'm not. I'm trying to have an actual discussion. He says that Brailey should play less and that the way the team uses McInnes currently should change. I'm open to agreeing with him, but I need an explanation as to why the current method isn't working.

These things aren't linked to each other. Even if you make a case for Brailey playing less, the answer doesn't automatically become McInnes. The best solution might be to bring in a proper bench hooker and keep McInnes in his current role.

The way of the internet

 

[Blix]

It's all good. He thinks I'm having a go at him, but I'm not. I'm trying to have an actual discussion. He says that Brailey should play less and that the way the team uses McInnes currently should change. I'm open to agreeing with him, but I need an explanation as to why the current method isn't working.

These things aren't linked to each other. Even if you make a case for Brailey playing less, the answer doesn't automatically become McInnes. The best solution might be to bring in a proper bench hooker and keep McInnes in his current role.

Don’t think you are having a go, just feel like your response was not accurate. You claimed things like the tackle counts I listed were completely incorrect but they were actually correct.

You stated that when I said McInnes was good at hooker, that he was crap at hooker and only became popular when moved to lock. Yet he was their player of the year at hooker.

Anyway as I said I am 100% easy and really am on holidays with better things to do then debate something which we both agree won’t indicate whether McInnes would be successful at hooker for the sharks.

However, I do think that he has shown he is worth consideration given being player of the year (albeit at stains) at hooker.

Also I have never mentioned cutting Braileys minutes. I did mention I wonder if there is any point where we might see McInnes at hooker.

Anyway onwards and upwards….