(Archived) THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

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bort

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Yeah right. That's pretty negligent... I guess NRL still isn't 'pro' enough to have proper practices all the way down through those levels yet.
I'd be pissed as a parent if my kid was getting busted at that age because they were over-working him. Crazy.

The big kid thing is such a problem and I don't know that there's a solution. You don't really want all the lightweights playing against each other and only ever tackling kids around the same size as them, nor do you want Talakai Jnr from that video posted the other day just stampeeding over the little guys on the way to the try line every carry.
Unless Talakai junior is hurting kids every week who cares. How often would kids on the other team actually play him? Few times a year at most. He was just plodding along not trampling kids.

Kids that much bigger are fairly rare, if he’s so dominant once you get a good lead up pull him off and he can play the game after too. Every team will have some bigger and smaller kids - found a very junior picture of of me the other day and there are two kids who would be close to three times my weight, one of them we had playing halves as his dad was coach and had been a halfback, didn’t really question it as a kid but think there were probably a few sideways glances between parents
 

Sparkles

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Unless Talakai junior is hurting kids every week who cares. How often would kids on the other team actually play him? Few times a year at most. He was just plodding along not trampling kids.

Kids that much bigger are fairly rare, if he’s so dominant once you get a good lead up pull him off and he can play the game after too. Every team will have some bigger and smaller kids - found a very junior picture of of me the other day and there are two kids who would be close to three times my weight, one of them we had playing halves as his dad was coach and had been a halfback, didn’t really question it as a kid but think there were probably a few sideways glances between parents
They don't need to be that much bigger at those ages to make the game a mess. If it were soccer, the kid that dominated to the exclusion of all other players would be graded into a more suitable group, for his and their benefit. And that's from U8's. There's no such system in junior rugba league that I know of.

I think we all had that experience mate. You didn't think about it too much as a kid (though you definitely noticed!). Certainly taught you the value of of a good leg tackle though, and made you look up at the defensive line pretty carefully when you had the ball!
 

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Sam Williams released by raiders.
Back to super league I expect.
 

MrDravid

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Suggested via media that although Lucy Leilua has been released by Tigers Cowboys don't actually have cap space for him.

Presumably they need to move someone who is on above min wage but would be willing to go somewhere for a better opportunity (ie not a regular name in their top 17-20). Doesn't leave much though (especially as don't know actually their wages & cap situation)... Hampton, Elliot?

They might struggle to find an option!
And the Tigers want to convince Ciraldo they aren't a basket case?
 

BurgoShark

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Unless Talakai junior is hurting kids every week who cares. How often would kids on the other team actually play him? Few times a year at most. He was just plodding along not trampling kids.

Kids that much bigger are fairly rare, if he’s so dominant once you get a good lead up pull him off and he can play the game after too. Every team will have some bigger and smaller kids - found a very junior picture of of me the other day and there are two kids who would be close to three times my weight, one of them we had playing halves as his dad was coach and had been a halfback, didn’t really question it as a kid but think there were probably a few sideways glances between parents
It's not the "Talakai juniors" of the world that I'm talking about. What I mean is that when you identify kids early, you are focusing on the kids who get big first. They are physically ready younger, but you may actually be overlooking better talent who have simply grown slower. It's a well-known phenomenon.

The Player Development Framework addresses it, and QRL clubs are on board - but NSW don't follow the PDF, nor do any schools (including Qld).

Having a bigger kid sometimes play halfback is good when they are younger imo. It teaches them that there is more to the game than "run over people". Except for kids who are really big and really slow (who are destined to play in the middle) I generally ignore body shape altogether when putting kids in position. It's more about their aptitude for the role.

Conversely, having a smaller kid play as running forwards part of the time is also important. Lots of smaller kids who only every play hooker or halfback don't know how to run on to the ball.
 

Sparkles

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It's not the "Talakai juniors" of the world that I'm talking about. What I mean is that when you identify kids early, you are focusing on the kids who get big first. They are physically ready younger, but you may actually be overlooking better talent who have simply grown slower. It's a well-known phenomenon.

The Player Development Framework addresses it, and QRL clubs are on board - but NSW don't follow the PDF, nor do any schools (including Qld).

Having a bigger kid sometimes play halfback is good when they are younger imo. It teaches them that there is more to the game than "run over people". Except for kids who are really big and really slow (who are destined to play in the middle) I generally ignore body shape altogether when putting kids in position. It's more about their aptitude for the role.

Conversely, having a smaller kid play as running forwards part of the time is also important. Lots of smaller kids who only every play hooker or halfback don't know how to run on to the ball.
Wouldn't you just train them all to play lock? Or isn't playing for the Sharks important?
 

bort

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They don't need to be that much bigger at those ages to make the game a mess. If it were soccer, the kid that dominated to the exclusion of all other players would be graded into a more suitable group, for his and their benefit. And that's from U8's. There's no such system in junior rugba league that I know of.

I think we all had that experience mate. You didn't think about it too much as a kid (though you definitely noticed!). Certainly taught you the value of of a good leg tackle though, and made you look up at the defensive line pretty carefully when you had the ball!
I wonder if there are stats or a consideration at least for what you mention in soccer regarding pros and cons of moving a 'more dominant' kid into a more suitable group?

I wonder if there is any drop off based on that kid not playing with their friends anymore, or drop off instead of their friends who aren't as good and now don't get to play with their friend anymore.

Especially at younger ages, is Talakai junior there to play with his friends or to be in the most fitting playing environment for him physically? Likely the first one. Sure he can make new friends, but I'd think there'd be some percentage drop off. Weight that I guess against the drop off of kids who parents are afraid they'll get sat on...

It's not the "Talakai juniors" of the world that I'm talking about. What I mean is that when you identify kids early, you are focusing on the kids who get big first. They are physically ready younger, but you may actually be overlooking better talent who have simply grown slower. It's a well-known phenomenon.

The Player Development Framework addresses it, and QRL clubs are on board - but NSW don't follow the PDF, nor do any schools (including Qld).

Having a bigger kid sometimes play halfback is good when they are younger imo. It teaches them that there is more to the game than "run over people". Except for kids who are really big and really slow (who are destined to play in the middle) I generally ignore body shape altogether when putting kids in position. It's more about their aptitude for the role.

Conversely, having a smaller kid play as running forwards part of the time is also important. Lots of smaller kids who only every play hooker or halfback don't know how to run on to the ball.
Oh I know and agree

Through sheer weigh of practice this kid definitely was one of our best half options... how could he not be, he got all the practice there!

He came back and played one season in seniors while I was still playing and tried to play halves and was quickly moved into forwards, and he is nowhere near as fat now as he was as a kid, not fat at all really. He didn't think much of being a forward though, don't think he even saw out the season actually...

Meanwhile though I was one of our smallest players and played hooker for much of juniors until another small kid came along who really probably should have been in halves got put at hooker and I played mostly 11/12/13 for next few years (enjoyed it more than hooker anyway so no real complaint from me).
 

Gumby

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Suggested via media that although Lucy Leilua has been released by Tigers Cowboys don't actually have cap space for him.

Presumably they need to move someone who is on above min wage but would be willing to go somewhere for a better opportunity (ie not a regular name in their top 17-20). Doesn't leave much though (especially as don't know actually their wages & cap situation)... Hampton, Elliot?

They might struggle to find an option!
See if Val wants to come home
 

Sparkles

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I wonder if there are stats or a consideration at least for what you mention in soccer regarding pros and cons of moving a 'more dominant' kid into a more suitable group?

I wonder if there is any drop off based on that kid not playing with their friends anymore, or drop off instead of their friends who aren't as good and now don't get to play with their friend anymore.

Especially at younger ages, is Talakai junior there to play with his friends or to be in the most fitting playing environment for him physically? Likely the first one. Sure he can make new friends, but I'd think there'd be some percentage drop off. Weight that I guess against the drop off of kids who parents are afraid they'll get sat on...
Our side has been really keen to keep together, which had been nice. Personally I think it's too young to grade them
 

XGinga

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Phil Gould has said on twitter that Paul Vaughan has signed in the UK for 2023
 

Capital_Shark

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Phil Gould has said on twitter that Paul Vaughan has signed in the UK for 2023
if no Australian club showed enough interest then there must be a bit we don't know. I think he is definitely good enough to be in this comp on talent. Must be another reason no one is interested.
 

Sevshark

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if no Australian club showed enough interest then there must be a bit we don't know. I think he is definitely good enough to be in this comp on talent. Must be another reason no one is interested.

I thinks it really is just down to attitude and media relationship.

Channel 9 had a camera at their gym session interviewing potter about the Win and when the camera just panned over to the players working out he flipped it the bird for no reason.

Comes to a certain point where you obviously aren't learning or making an effort to better your behaviour. Which is a shame because he would of been a good pick up.
 

BurgoShark

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Through sheer weight of practice this kid definitely was one of our best half options... how could he not be, he got all the practice there!

Yep. This is the other part of it. Pygmalion effect. Only train one kid to play the spot, and then sit down at the end of the year answer think “Yep. Good call by me. He was the best at it”.

That’s another reason why I try not to load up 2-3 players with all of the passing duties. If there are players who aren’t quite willing/able to play in a prominent spot, I can play them in a role which requires “some passing duties” first, which makes for a much nicer transition than being a ball runner one week and halfback the next.

If I have a squad of 19-20 kids, at least 12-13 of them will train and play in a position at some point where they are expected to throw 10+ passes in a game.

Everyone’s a lock ;)
 
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