Official 2024 NRL General Discussion

[BurgoShark]

Hey Burgo ,
Do coaches do their homework and target the last 5 minutes prior to a starter being subbed to run plays at those players ?
If so , could we have stats on the indivual player errors 5 mins from subbing for the team we're about to play each week ?
A lot of work BUT would be interesting to then watch games with focus on those players and seeing if it panned out as per stats .
eg
Say Thomas Burgess averages being replaced at the 25 minute mark , what is his error rates from the 20 to 25 minute mark ?

NO DRAMA , if this is deemed a useless request

Not a silly idea mate, but way too much work to add to what I’m doing already.

Coaches definitely do this kind of thing. Not sure about error rate etc. but they would definitely be across usage for the opposition middles and would have strategies to attack them late in their stints.

Tom Burgess a good example, because while everyone was banging on about his great runs he stood still and made zero effort to tackle
Brailey as he ran past him. He was cooked.

There was a great video of a former coach looking a Sharks/Storm game in 2016 (might have been Matt Elliott) and highlighting how the Sharks deliberately kept running multiple plays in a row at one of the Storm middles (was K Brom or Glasby I think) to force him to make consecutive tackles. Late in his stint they ran a play on him at the ruck and Val tore straight through.

I also talked with a junior rep coach in Qld once who works pretty closely with Neil Henry. This bloke reckons his main strategy would be to pick one back rower to work over all game. Keep running consecutive boring plays straight at him so he keeps making tackle, then late in the half run your plays at him. Spectators will think he is a gun, because he will lead the tackle count and make a bunch of double up tackles. They are setting him up though.

 

[egg]

Not a silly idea mate, but way too much work to add to what I’m doing already.

Coaches definitely do this kind of thing. Not sure about error rate etc. but they would definitely be across usage for the opposition middles and would have strategies to attack them late in their stints.

Tom Burgess a good example, because while everyone was banging on about his great runs he stood still and made zero effort to tackle
Brailey as he ran past him. He was cooked.

There was a great video of a former coach looking a Sharks/Storm game in 2016 (might have been Matt Elliott) and highlighting how the Sharks deliberately kept running multiple plays in a row at one of the Storm middles (was K Brom or Glasby I think) to force him to make consecutive tackles. Late in his stint they ran a play on him at the ruck and Val tore straight through.

I also talked with a junior rep coach in Qld once who works pretty closely with Neil Henry. This bloke reckons his main strategy would be to pick one back rower to work over all game. Keep running consecutive boring plays straight at him so he keeps making tackle, then late in the half run your plays at him. Spectators will think he is a gun, because he will lead the tackle count and make a bunch of double up tackles. They are setting him up though.

Thanks mate , appreciate hearing this.

 

[bort]

Round 6: Hawkins drags down Talakai

Dean Hawkins claims the Youi Tackle of the Week for Round 6

www.nrl.com

Hip drop?
And player laying in the way of PTB was penalised later in weekend…

 

[apezza]

Round 6: Hawkins drags down Talakai

Dean Hawkins claims the Youi Tackle of the Week for Round 6

www.nrl.com

Hip drop?
And player laying in the way of PTB was penalised later in weekend…

I don't think it was a hip drop. He slid down in one motion.

That's not to say others haven't been pinged for similar tackles (ie Chad Townsend, Victoria Radley) which were later thrown out.

 

[bort]

I don't think it was a hip drop. He slid down in one motion.

That's not to say others haven't been pinged for similar tackles (ie Chad Townsend, Victoria Radley) which were later thrown out.

Yeah there’s probably no ‘drop’ onto the legs, more of a slide.
I guess being an almost hip drop but avoiding it is what makes it tackle of the week..

 

[stormshark]

Do Refs carry ''ëye Drops"

 

[apezza]

Do Refs carry ''ëye Drops"

You don't need eye drops when your eyes are painted on.

 

[Western Sharkie]

You don't need eye drops when your eyes are painted on.

They would run…..

Just ask the ladies with mascara

 

[Six Again]

Do Refs carry ''ëye Drops"

Drops a waste when eyes painted on .

 

[The Punisher]

JFH to Warriors for 2025 on 4 yr deal.
Can see Panthers taking Williams now as a direct replacement for him

 

[Blue_Eyes84]

I'm currently sitting in the doctor’s waiting room, bored. I'm going to give an updated NSW team.

1 Edwards.

2 To’o

3 Turbo

4 Critta

5 Lomax.

6 Moses

7 Cleary

8 Paulo

9 Api

10 Jurbo

11 Martin

12 Olakau’atu

13 Murray

14 Campbell- Gillard

15 Brailey

16 Haas

17 McInnes

18 Hynes

 

[bort]

JFH to Warriors for 2025 on 4 yr deal.
Can see Panthers taking Williams now as a direct replacement for him

They do love a Sharks smaller forward (Cape, Sorro)

 

[bort]

I'm currently sitting in the doctor’s waiting room, bored. I'm going to give an updated NSW team.

1 Edwards.

2 To’o

3 Turbo

4 Critta

5 Lomax.

6 Moses

7 Cleary

8 Paulo

9 Api

10 Jurbo

11 Martin

12 Olakau’atu

13 Murray

14 Campbell- Gillard

15 Brailey

16 Haas

17 McInnes

18 Hynes

Is that factoring in that Moses is only expected to get 1 game in before Origin?
I think due to that I have to overlook him. Pending form an opportunity for Hynes or Luai - Burton if he was able to hold current form could maybe find himself in the convo.

There are a few other guys you could say are maybe also in contention but I think most of them are close to who you have picked so splitting hairs, the one I will throw out though is Terrell May - if he makes himself available for NSW he's an easy pick at bench prop for me.
I'd also start Haas and drop Jurbo to 19th man.
I think Jurbo is good in origin but contributes more to not losing than to winning, if that makes sense. Great camp body though and Seagles have round 13 bye so you could bring him into origin camp without him missing a game.

I personally would go Robson (bigger body, can play middle) for the 15 over Blayke if running a second hooker, otherwise someone like Barnett comes into consideration for me. I'd maybe start him and bench Paulo just for role purposes. In this case McInnes can spell Api if absolutely necessary.

 

[BurgoShark]

Is that factoring in that Moses is only expected to get 1 game in before Origin?
I think due to that I have to overlook him. Pending form an opportunity for Hynes or Luai - Burton if he was able to hold current form could maybe find himself in the convo.

There are a few other guys you could say are maybe also in contention but I think most of them are close to who you have picked so splitting hairs, the one I will throw out though is Terrell May - if he makes himself available for NSW he's an easy pick at bench prop for me.
I'd also start Haas and drop Jurbo to 19th man.
I think Jurbo is good in origin but contributes more to not losing than to winning, if that makes sense. Great camp body though and Seagles have round 13 bye so you could bring him into origin camp without him missing a game.

I personally would go Robson (bigger body, can play middle) for the 15 over Blayke if running a second hooker, otherwise someone like Barnett comes into consideration for me. I'd maybe start him and bench Paulo just for role purposes. In this case McInnes can spell Api if absolutely necessary.

Shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic …

 

[bort]

Shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic …

I wish this was a joke....

No, no, new coach - I can have faith for a couple games...

 

[stormshark]

McGuire, bit like Stuart, can work magic with a playing group early on, till the approach wears off. Reckon NSW win in a clean sweep

 

[MrDravid]

I wish this was a joke....

No, no, new coach - I can have faith for a couple games...

We all have faith... right up until 79 mins into game 1

 

[BurgoShark]

I wish this was a joke....

No, no, new coach - I can have faith for a couple games...

Well we are missing Gilbert and Tino… but also can’t pick Hess so that’s a wash.

 

[BurgoShark]

Comments from Gus on the stats the fans think matters versus the stats than the coaches use.

I should make this my signature.

Why Manu will be back.

Listen to this episode from Six Tackles With Gus on Spotify. The news of James Fisher-Harris leaving the Panthers at the end of the year breaks during the podcast and Gus’ phone goes off. Gus says Joey Manu will be back after signing with Japanese Rugby and he explains why there will be a lot of...

open.spotify.com

These days one of the big things is data analytics. All the stats that you see on fantasy football, our coaches take no notice of those. They’re not the stats that they use.

What people see as traditional stats and how they rate players and all that sort of thing, is so far removed from what NRL coaches use and what they look at.

Talk about tackles, a bloke might 40 tackles but he might be the fourth man in fifteen of those times, and what our stats providers say are missed tackles or ineffective tackles and what they give points for, are nothing like what the coaches look at.

We don’t look at tackle counts and missed tackles. We don’t look at runs and run metres. We look at how it fits in to the system and what it does, and what is happening off the ball, and other things that the players are doing.

On every play in attack and defence you’ve got a job, and the coaches want to hold you up to the mark on that job. Even though you don’t get the ball, even though you’re not involved in defence, being in position and how you are going. They’re getting those data analytics, and they’ll have a number of measures during the course of a game that they believe in that if we do enough of this over a period of time the game will come to us and we’ll get out opportunities.

Support play and that sort of thing, I could support twenty times and never get the ball, but what I have done… I’ve stopped them from having four man tackles and slowing the play the ball because they’ve had to accommodate for me. I have had to make their defence move and move up and have to go back again, so it’s a wear and tear. One day I will get the ball and people will notice then, but they didn’t notice the other twenty times.

When you hear coaches talk about front loading their effort levels or their effort parts of the game, they’re things that are so far removed from tackle counts and run counts and run metres. Coaches don’t look at that stuff, and it’s a poor eduction for the players to think that that’s what makes a good player because it doesn’t necessarily do that and it doesn’t necessary equate to winning.

 

[Proud Shark]

Comments from Gus on the stats the fans think matters versus the stats than the coaches use.

I should make this my signature.

Why Manu will be back.

Listen to this episode from Six Tackles With Gus on Spotify. The news of James Fisher-Harris leaving the Panthers at the end of the year breaks during the podcast and Gus’ phone goes off. Gus says Joey Manu will be back after signing with Japanese Rugby and he explains why there will be a lot of...

open.spotify.com

These days one of the big things is data analytics. All the stats that you see on fantasy football, our coaches take no notice of those. They’re not the stats that they use.

What people see as traditional stats and how they rate players and all that sort of thing, is so far removed from what NRL coaches use and what they look at.

Talk about tackles, a bloke might 40 tackles but he might be the fourth man in fifteen of those times, and what our stats providers say are missed tackles or ineffective tackles and what they give points for, are nothing like what the coaches look at.

We don’t look at tackle counts and missed tackles. We don’t look at runs and run metres. We look at how it fits in to the system and what it does, and what is happening off the ball, and other things that the players are doing.

On every play in attack and defence you’ve got a job, and the coaches want to hold you up to the mark on that job. Even though you don’t get the ball, even though you’re not involved in defence, being in position and how you are going. They’re getting those data analytics, and they’ll have a number of measures during the course of a game that they believe in that if we do enough of this over a period of time the game will come to us and we’ll get out opportunities.

Support play and that sort of thing, I could support twenty times and never get the ball, but what I have done… I’ve stopped them from having four man tackles and slowing the play the ball because they’ve had to accommodate for me. I have had to make their defence move and move up and have to go back again, so it’s a wear and tear. One day I will get the ball and people will notice then, but they didn’t notice the other twenty times.

When you hear coaches talk about front loading their effort levels or their effort parts of the game, they’re things that are so far removed from tackle counts and run counts and run metres. Coaches don’t look at that stuff, and it’s a poor eduction for the players to think that that’s what makes a good player because it doesn’t necessarily do that and it doesn’t necessary equate to winning.

I think it's a failing on the media's part that this disparity exists. Especially when the panels are full of ex-players that know this stuff, but don't use their expertise to educate the fans.

I would love to consume more content that actually went into the analytics of systems over just talking fantasy stats. That's part of the reason I liked the 5th and last podcast. Those guys had been involved in a fair bit of junior rep coaching I believe, and often made reference to and explained different defensive systems.