2023 NRL General Discussion

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
30,503
Reaction score
6,315
Location
IN A BAR
Yep, ridiculous.

Minor premiers should get $1m.
My first instinct is to agree

But I think there is a fair argument to not make minor prem and prem cash rewards too significant, as it can only lead to further unbalancing comp.
Penrith don't need another $2m they can put into their system.

If the goal is an even comp then that extra 900k (not taking minor prem award 100k up to a million) could probably be spent in other ways to advance programs that need some help - ideally it would focus on supporting junior and grass roots programs. Although maybe Penrith do need it for more security at their junior games...

You don't want to create a situation either where tanking is worthwhile either.

A tricky one, the winners deserve their rewards but a balanced comp is the best product.
Kind of same as the extra pay outside cap for player making finals.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
18,562
Reaction score
2,194
Location
The Ridge!
My first instinct is to agree

But I think there is a fair argument to not make minor prem and prem cash rewards too significant, as it can only lead to further unbalancing comp.
Penrith don't need another $2m they can put into their system.

If the goal is an even comp then that extra 900k (not taking minor prem award 100k up to a million) could probably be spent in other ways to advance programs that need some help - ideally it would focus on supporting junior and grass roots programs. Although maybe Penrith do need it for more security at their junior games...

You don't want to create a situation either where tanking is worthwhile either.

A tricky one, the winners deserve their rewards but a balanced comp is the best product.
Kind of same as the extra pay outside cap for player making finals.
So what is the incentive for a club to win the comp besides the prizemoney?
 

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
30,503
Reaction score
6,315
Location
IN A BAR
Tigers need to win this so they can start paying the Canteen lady at Campbeltown stadium and buy some new sausage rolls
Other clubs have already poached all their good sausage rolls
 

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
30,503
Reaction score
6,315
Location
IN A BAR
So what is the incentive for a club to win the comp besides the prizemoney?
You'll be shocked to learn there are 1000s even 10s of 1000s of sports clubs all around Australia who field teams that won't win them 1 million dollars. Sports clubs, even professional ones, don't exist to chase prizemoney.

Clubs that do better will typically be better placed to make sponsorship money though, so it's not like they get nothing.
I just think even more prize money risks unbalancing comp.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
18,562
Reaction score
2,194
Location
The Ridge!
You'll be shocked to learn there are 1000s even 10s of 1000s of sports clubs all around Australia who field teams that won't win them 1 million dollars. Sports clubs, even professional ones, don't exist to chase prizemoney.

Clubs that do better will typically be better placed to make sponsorship money though, so it's not like they get nothing.
I just think even more prize money risks unbalancing comp.
Um, I'm not shocked about that - I actually find that comment a bit condescending mate, something I wouldn't expect from you. :) Apologies if you didn't mean it that way.

My question was a genuine one and I thought someone more knowledgeable than me would know what clubs get out of winning the comp besides the prizemoney. Sponsorship definitely but is there anything else?
 
Last edited:

HaroldBishop

Megalodon
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
55,477
Reaction score
8,343
Location
Sydney
My first instinct is to agree

But I think there is a fair argument to not make minor prem and prem cash rewards too significant, as it can only lead to further unbalancing comp.
Penrith don't need another $2m they can put into their system.

If the goal is an even comp then that extra 900k (not taking minor prem award 100k up to a million) could probably be spent in other ways to advance programs that need some help - ideally it would focus on supporting junior and grass roots programs. Although maybe Penrith do need it for more security at their junior games...

You don't want to create a situation either where tanking is worthwhile either.

A tricky one, the winners deserve their rewards but a balanced comp is the best product.
Kind of same as the extra pay outside cap for player making finals.
Yeah fair enough but it needs to be more significant than 100k.
 

Sparkles

Jaws
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
12,192
Reaction score
2,934
So what is the incentive for a club to win the comp besides the prizemoney?
Still financial I would say mate. More sponsorship and better tv times. And bragging rights... Priceless.

For players it's increased value and bonuses for finals footy (I'd say a good few have that in their contracts) and possibly rep bonuses.
 

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
30,503
Reaction score
6,315
Location
IN A BAR
Um, I'm not shocked about that - I actually find that comment a bit condescending mate, something I wouldn't expect from you. :)

My question was a genuine one and I thought someone more knowledgeable than me would know what clubs get out of winning the comp besides the prizemoney. Sponsorship definitely but is there anything else?
Yes it was written a bit condescendingly, I really wasn't sure how to address the suggestion sports club may only want to win for the prospect of prize money. To me sports clubs exist first and foremost simply to facilitate people to play sport, and peoples sole motivation to play sport is rarely financial. Professional clubs with paid players need to focus more on money as they are facilitating players who cost money to play.

Some may play sport for fitness or socially but mostly those who play professionally do so because of a love of the competition and challenging themselves (and do enjoy that they are good enough to get paid to do it).
They are motivated to win because they love to win, not to hope for some extra prize money for the club at the end. The club exists to support the players to play, without the players it doesn't just not get prize money, it doesn't even exist.

At an NRL level it doesn't hurt that the better each player performs and more successful the club is this translates into better dollars for them but there are many people playing who don't get paid.

The club is a sports club, it is not a regular business focused on moving a product or service. It wants to make money and be financially successful yes, but not to pad the pockets of staff, investors or stock holders, but to continue to build itself and continue that on field success. The prestige of winning - what the club was built to do - is more 'important' than money. Or at least, it should be.
I'd hope if you asked every NRL club what their goal is for the year they'd have win the comp at number one. Do you think every club would take a minor premiership and a premiership with a break even accounts for the year over their most profitable ever season? I'd hope the Sharks would.

Yeah I bet most clubs would love a cheeky million alongside finishing minor premiers but they don't need it, teams have been finishing minor premiers for years without that motivation. As arrogant as they are the Panthers club is revelling in their on field success, they are making some extra money off it too for sure, but I bet they are very happy with their results and their club without it being purely financial.
Other clubs who look at them and think 'I wish we were as successful as them' probably aren't looking at their accounts.
"We want to do what they are doing" is something a lot of clubs may think and again they are looking at on field success more than commercial.

You could bounce around and find examples in various sports like this club does have stock holders, this club does have investors who see it as a way to profit, but that still is probably not why the club exists or what the team plays for.

Even from a financial perspective not being motivated to win just because you can't get the prize money anymore is counterproductive long term. In sports that have issues with tanking they don't tank because they can't win the prize money anymore they tank for better draft picks to help them do better in the future. If an NRL club lets themselves give up because they can't win a minor premiership anymore they risk being less attractive to sponsor and players in the future. Which hurts their pocket and makes future minor premiership prize money even further away.

I would assume very few people have ever started a sports club at any level and thought 'this will be a great way to make money'.

I could be wrong though, maybe I am too idealistic about what sport means to people and these are just commercially focused businesses.
Too much text, I should have just stuck with the condescending answer.

tldr; it's the vibe of the thing
 

Addy

Jaws
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
8,848
Reaction score
1,024
Location
NSW/ACT
Personally I think Magic Round has too many games at the one venue. It destroys the surface. Particularly if it is wet.

I like the concept of double and triple headers.

Double header in Brisbane with Dolphins and Broncos Home games back to back.

Super Sydney Saturday. could have 6 Sydney teams face off on the one day back to back and do it twice a year.

Melbourne would do a great magic round.

Friday night at AAMI
Saturday at Marvel
Sunday at the MCG
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
18,562
Reaction score
2,194
Location
The Ridge!
Yes it was written a bit condescendingly, I really wasn't sure how to address the suggestion sports club may only want to win for the prospect of prize money. To me sports clubs exist first and foremost simply to facilitate people to play sport, and peoples sole motivation to play sport is rarely financial. Professional clubs with paid players need to focus more on money as they are facilitating players who cost money to play.

Some may play sport for fitness or socially but mostly those who play professionally do so because of a love of the competition and challenging themselves (and do enjoy that they are good enough to get paid to do it).
They are motivated to win because they love to win, not to hope for some extra prize money for the club at the end. The club exists to support the players to play, without the players it doesn't just not get prize money, it doesn't even exist.

At an NRL level it doesn't hurt that the better each player performs and more successful the club is this translates into better dollars for them but there are many people playing who don't get paid.

The club is a sports club, it is not a regular business focused on moving a product or service. It wants to make money and be financially successful yes, but not to pad the pockets of staff, investors or stock holders, but to continue to build itself and continue that on field success. The prestige of winning - what the club was built to do - is more 'important' than money. Or at least, it should be.
I'd hope if you asked every NRL club what their goal is for the year they'd have win the comp at number one. Do you think every club would take a minor premiership and a premiership with a break even accounts for the year over their most profitable ever season? I'd hope the Sharks would.

Yeah I bet most clubs would love a cheeky million alongside finishing minor premiers but they don't need it, teams have been finishing minor premiers for years without that motivation. As arrogant as they are the Panthers club is revelling in their on field success, they are making some extra money off it too for sure, but I bet they are very happy with their results and their club without it being purely financial.
Other clubs who look at them and think 'I wish we were as successful as them' probably aren't looking at their accounts.
"We want to do what they are doing" is something a lot of clubs may think and again they are looking at on field success more than commercial.

You could bounce around and find examples in various sports like this club does have stock holders, this club does have investors who see it as a way to profit, but that still is probably not why the club exists or what the team plays for.

Even from a financial perspective not being motivated to win just because you can't get the prize money anymore is counterproductive long term. In sports that have issues with tanking they don't tank because they can't win the prize money anymore they tank for better draft picks to help them do better in the future. If an NRL club lets themselves give up because they can't win a minor premiership anymore they risk being less attractive to sponsor and players in the future. Which hurts their pocket and makes future minor premiership prize money even further away.

I would assume very few people have ever started a sports club at any level and thought 'this will be a great way to make money'.

I could be wrong though, maybe I am too idealistic about what sport means to people and these are just commercially focused businesses.
Too much text, I should have just stuck with the condescending answer.

tldr; it's the vibe of the thing
Maybe look at @Sparkles reply to my post mate (the one above your essay) - that was very straightforward and pleasant. :)
 

Mr Ryan

Bull Shark
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
2,176
Reaction score
304
What did any of us get out of the 2016 premiership?

I want a million dollars to replace this feeling of emptiness.
 

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
30,503
Reaction score
6,315
Location
IN A BAR
Maybe look at @Sparkles reply to my post mate (the one above your essay) - that was very straightforward and pleasant. :)
Thanks for your condescending response to my extensive attempt to explain people get more out of sport than money that you asked for
What did any of us get out of the 2016 premiership?

I want a million dollars to replace this feeling of emptiness.
Somehow I managed to enjoy it as a fan despite it costing me money.

Must have been the sense of joy from watching the players celebrate that their wallets will be full
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
18,562
Reaction score
2,194
Location
The Ridge!
Thanks for your condescending response to my extensive attempt to explain people get more out of sport than money that you asked for

Somehow I managed to enjoy it as a fan despite it costing me money.

Must have been the sense of joy from watching the players celebrate that their wallets will be full
No problems mate, happy to oblige! 😆

In all seriousness though, the prizemoney does seem quite small considering all the effort and time players and clubs put into winning it. But they keep doing it so it must be worthwhile somehow!
 
Top