Official Wade Graham

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Mark^Bastard

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The failure of Benji Marshall moving from 6 to 7 shows there is obviously still a difference.

I would put him at 6 because that is where he said he wants to play and where the current gap is. Keep Smith at 7 for now, unless Kelly or Porter train and trial excellently.

Benji still plays first receiver a lot though.

The difference is when he is paired with a good half he can choose when to inject himself more.

I think Kelly is the player most similar to Benji and Graham is the one that is more level headed and can just distribute the ball to the forwards appropriately etc.
 

Mr Wright

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Ramzy is all depends on the game plan really. There is a reason why a lot of halfbacks can play five-eight and visa verca. It's because they have become so damn similar in the modern day game.
 

Mark^Bastard

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Ramzy is all depends on the game plan really. There is a reason why a lot of halfbacks can play five-eight and visa verca. It's because they have become so damn similar in the modern day game.

Yeah the number on your back means nothing.

What matters is whether you're a first or second receiver and how much of the time you're either one.

It matters where you stand in attack and where you stand in defence.

It matters how good your short and long kicking game is.

It matters which foot you kick with best, and which way you're best at passing.

It matters how busy you like to be, whether you want to touch the ball at least a few times per set or only get it in good opportunity.
 

A.Snowden

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If you want to read a good article on halfbacks read this:

Shortage of quality No.7s suggests system failing to deliver straight answer at halfback
BY WARREN RYAN
28 Jul, 2010 04:00 AM

I DON'T know if the honchos at headquarters have too much on their plate to notice there is a serious shortage of quality halfbacks being produced, but the evidence is too obvious to ignore.

So many clubs have employed Andrew Johns to give their halfback tuition, we can only conclude they are not satisfied their No.7 is the finished product.

What they're saying is he lacks experience and needs help, but through necessity we've pushed him ahead of his time. It's also an indictment on the coaching staff. What on earth do they coach or teach if they can't teach the most important position on the field? More about that later.

How many potential inside backs don't survive junior league because they are physically incapable of competing with Pacific Island giants during the maturation ages? What 12 or 13-year-old will say "I'll be back in three or four years when I develop and have the size and muscle to compete?"

The halfback position is difficult to learn. It requires more mental application than any other position on the field. Dummy halves might take some offence, but their role is more instinctive and reactive. They work in a narrower corridor of opportunity.

The No.7s have to be creative. They call the shots, aim the team and read the defence with eyes that can barely afford to blink in the speed of the modern game lest they miss the half-chance.

Along with that, all the great ones like Sterling, Mortimer, Langer, Stuart and Johns carried their own array of skills that weighed heavily on the minds of opposition defences who knew these guys weren't out there to just pass and kick.

Peter Sterling spoke about experience and repetition in a conversation I had with him some time back, saying the more times you see a particular formation which presents attacking opportunity, the quicker you recognise it and react to it.

The age-old conundrum arises though: how does a promising young half get the experience required to play in the NRL unless he is given the opportunity to play in the NRL? The answer of course is, he can't get it unless he's pushed ahead of time.

So the buzzword of the day is "mentoring". The Eels want Trent Barrett to have a mentoring year alongside Daniel Mortimer, which sounds awfully like bad news to their current half Jeff Robson as he tries to help his team chase a spot in the top eight. It probably didn't do much for his confidence reading that over breakfast.

Why are the Raiders trying to entice Brett Kimmorley to play one last year for Canberra to "mentor" young half Josh McCrone? That makes even less sense because if Kimmorley is in, McCrone will be out and playing somewhere else in the Raiders feeder club. Surely five-eighth Terry Campese can help McCrone.

This begs the question that if mentoring is needed at all these clubs, who is not teaching them? If the development of quality halves isn't a serious problem, why did NSW have to keep recycling Kimmorley and Barrett? Were they heroic figures of the past who led the Blues to victory? Or were they there by default because there were no other younger contenders?

But back to Andrew Johns and his role as a roving coach of halfbacks. He popped in to the ABC box for a chat recently and confirmed something that I've been concerned about for a long time now. I'll endeavour not to bore you with the technical details here, but he told me when he has tried to explain to young halves where to stand width-wise at the play-the-ball, how flat and which defender across no-man's land to align themselves with in order to play "straight" - have you got it? "straight", not "a bit more direct" - they drop their mouths open, look at him in complete surprise and say something intellectual like "huh?"

So they don't know and evidently aren't being taught because if the coaching staff knew, they'd be teaching them. But for a long time now, the concentration has been on other things like winning the ground, the wrestle in the tackle, play-the-ball speed, dummy-half running, etc etc, all of which is important in the long list of requirements for victory.

But the science of straight play has somehow been blurred and is in danger of being lost in a sea of cross-field running where inside backs afford themselves the luxury of floating across field, bruise free, to turn a victim inside so he can take the hit.

All of this is done from the safety of five metres short of the defence, so the ball-carrier is easily identified and consequently hammered. How often after a loss, when something is radically wrong with the attack because nobody could make a break, do we hear the vague offering - we're going to play "a bit more direct"?

Straight play is scientific and has to be initiated with accuracy and precision. It doesn't live in the vague world of "a bit more direct". That's a world for those who don't know how specific the task is.

This begs the question, why wasn't it done in the first place? The answer is obvious. They don't know, and Andrew Johns's travelling tutorials have confirmed it.

The sad corollary to the story is that today's players will be tomorrow's coaches. They will in turn regurgitate the steady diet of vague, non-specific football patter they've been fed during their playing careers, thinking they're on the right track when in fact they're not.

http://www.theherald.com.au/news/lo...iver-straight-answer-at-halfback/1896900.aspx
 

ABshark

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No rudeness received - but question was answered further up. Just after thoughts on Kelly/Graham halves combo. I dont think it will happen as Graham or Kelly are not traditional half backs. Both are good 5/8's. I think it will Smith/Graham combo with Kelly on the bench.

I've watched every minute of Graham playing 7 this year and I reckon he could handle it. He's said he prefers playing 5/8th, but what he really wants is control of the team and a game plan built around him.

Penrith's gameplan hardly utilised his skills at all. In fact, he hardly got the ball, and when he did (especially when he played 5/8th) he was just there as a second kicker and to shift the ball on to Lewis or Jennings early. He's a general, a talker, and a good tactician (apparently) who wants his hands on the ball much more than what he was getting at Penrith. I think his kicking game improved a lot as the season went on, as did his running game, and he has a nice right to left pass.

As such, I think he would be more easily molded in to a decent halfback than AK (or Smith or Porter for that matter). Frankly, it will come down to Flano's coaching ability- whether he can mould a halfback out of one of two very talented 5/8ths.
 
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I agree 100% he looks like a great halfback to me and in our current state that's where he would help us out the most IMO
 

ben

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I have only seen him play 5/8 - did not know he played 1/2. The games I saw him play 5/8 he played he played ok - nothing special. Was this when penriths 1/2 was injured?
 

Mark^Bastard

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Agreed also.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I reckon it comes down to a few different things.

1 - Right side / Left side
2 - First / Second receiver
3 - Number of receives per game
4 - Kicking amount
5 - Kicking variation
6 - Close to the ruck or further from the ruck
7 - Freedom to move close to the ruck and further away

These are the things that halves (half backs and 5/8's) do. Some do all, some do some.

If Kelly and Graham are our best halves (I reckon they may well be) then we have to look at how all of the above applies to them and then work out a plan.

Personally I think Kelly is a more dynamic runner and Graham a more powerful runner, so I'd have Graham closer to the ruck as a half back and Kelly further out but with freedom to move around.

Graham also seems more vocal and a team organiser, and genuinely looks like he is always really IN the game, this again makes me prefer him in the ruck.

Finally Graham is bigger and probably a better front on defender than Kelly, so he should probably defend more in the ruck as well.

For these reasons I would prefer Graham to wear 7 on his back, though it doesn't actually matter which number either one wear.
 
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I have only seen him play 5/8 - did not know he played 1/2. The games I saw him play 5/8 he played he played ok - nothing special. Was this when penriths 1/2 was injured?

he played half back in the couple to few times that walsh was injured.
 
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yep and then got injured this year and burns took over and they started winning so graham never got his spot back but from the commentators mouth he looks a class above anyone in the under 20's.
 

ben

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People have mentioned graham as a lock as well, I thought from the games I have seen him play, that he may well be better suited to lock which could pair up smith and kelly, and if that doesnt work out then bring him back to 5/8 as a plan b.
 
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Yeh he played there in the final on the weekend when lewis got injured and he killed it but I suppose it all depends on who else is at the club at the time but he defs won't be at lock next year. Hopefully in a few years time half will be townsend 5/8 kelly and lock graham that's a pretty impressive spine with gardner and our props chucked in and hopefully gal will still be around.
 

ABshark

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I have only seen him play 5/8 - did not know he played 1/2. The games I saw him play 5/8 he played he played ok - nothing special. Was this when penriths 1/2 was injured?

Yep. Played 4 games there this season- one of which was the fifty point shellacking against us in Rd 26. I think he had a particularly good game against St George at Origin time though, he got them to a gritty 14-10 (approx) win in the wet on a Monday night. Also played 1/2 against Canberra on a Monday night when Penrith went down after leading 26-12 or so at half time, and against Melbourne mid-season. Check out the highlights on NRL.com if you like.

Are we talking looks or playing style here.

Also if Wade Graham turns out to be Jason Smith like you suggest AB we are ****ed ****ed ****ed.

There's this nice piece of YouTube here with Gus Gould waxing on about Jason Smith and highlights of him controlling a game to beat the Dragons right near the end of his career when he was just making a living out of mentoring younger halves (also features a young Todd Carney getting a double). Amongst other things, Gus emphasises how Smith takes his time with his play- something that is patently obvious when you watch the video. Gould also calls it a lost art- I disagree, I reckon Graham has it. Gus just put his finger on what it is in Graham that reminds me of Smith. Check it out:

BORKED

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NOTOhN7EoA
 
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Mark^Bastard

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I haven't seen anything from him that suggests he'll be a good lock, other than the usual fallacy of a bigger 5/8 automatically being suited to play at lock.
 
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the game on the weekend was pretty impressive but I agree I would rather see him in the halves.
 
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