Official Junior Footy + Coaching

[stormshark]

One big difference in Q Cup is that no feeder team gets 10+ players every week from their NRL team like the Jets do... so you are competing for spots most weeks with another guy on a Cup contract rather than training all week and then dropping to 3rd grade because all the fringe NRL guys come back in to the team.

Know of a couple of pathway coaches, after a few years, that got sick of being told which players to Pick from above ( over better players that trained with the squad), and walked. Tricky situation. Same same, but different

 

[BurgoShark]

Know of a couple of pathway coaches, after a few years, that got sick of being told which players to Pick from above ( over better players that trained with the squad), and walked. Tricky situation. Same same, but different

Yep. Has been the case forever and a day.

Just in my (very small) circle I know of things like regional coaches over-riding selections in district teams to keep kids from last year's squad ahead of kids who played better on the day etc.

... or the other one that is pretty common is to assign kids to "random" teams in the trials, and for one of these "random" teams to be last year's team. They pump everyone, and get re-selected.

 

[Sparkles]

Yep. Has been the case forever and a day.

Just in my (very small) circle I know of things like regional coaches over-riding selections in district teams to keep kids from last year's squad ahead of kids who played better on the day etc.

... or the other one that is pretty common is to assign kids to "random" teams in the trials, and for one of these "random" teams to be last year's team. They pump everyone, and get re-selected.

A bity of a tangent, but our soccer club had chosen the 4 'teams' the kids would be in for grading purposes. I probably could have nominated which one my son went into if I were the type to think that way (that kind of pressure is pretty commonplace), as I have a good relationship with the organising committee member. It would have given him a fair leg up in the game component as he would have been playing with the better kids. The whole process is pretty ridiculous all round, really.

Another bureaucratic example of results over kids... our local baseball comp has four teams; two from one club. That club decided they couldn't field their teams for the last round as they had a few players on rep duties, meaning the round was called off. That last game would have been a playoff for first with another club. Instead, the season ended there, with them taking out the comp (and second place). The kids from all the teams were devastated. They just wanted to play the final game of the season.

 

[BurgoShark]

A bity of a tangent, but our soccer club had chosen the 4 'teams' the kids would be in for grading purposes. I probably could have nominated which one my son went into if I were the type to think that way (that kind of pressure is pretty commonplace), as I have a good relationship with the organising committee member. It would have given him a fair leg up in the game component as he would have been playing with the better kids. The whole process is pretty ridiculous all round, really.

Another bureaucratic example of results over kids... our local baseball comp has four teams; two from one club. That club decided they couldn't field their teams for the last round as they had a few players on rep duties, meaning the round was called off. That last game would have been a playoff for first with another club. Instead, the season ended there, with them taking out the comp (and second place). The kids from all the teams were devastated. They just wanted to play the final game of the season.

Soccer is a funny one. When my son was very young he was quite good and playing one age up. The club said that instead of fielding an "A" and "B" team they were going to field two fairly even squads. They ran trials, picked the best 10 and split them up 5/5 between the teams and then just assigned everyone else randomly. I thought it was great but the parents of the "better" kids all wanted to see an A team.

My son wasn't in the 10. After the trials they ran a game of him and the other two boys playing up an age going 3 on 5 against some of the other from outside the 10. His team (with only 3 players) won by lots... and then the club told us they weren't good enough to play up an age .

Turns out they wanted to drop the better "playing up" kids back to their own age so they could field a stronger team in that age group... which we thought was a fair call - but the club for some reason felt the need to feed us bs. The 3 on 5 trial was actually to find out which of the younger kids the coach in that age wanted to steal back.

 

[Sparkles]

Soccer is a funny one. When my son was very young he was quite good and playing one age up. The club said that instead of fielding an "A" and "B" team they were going to field two fairly even squads. They ran trials, picked the best 10 and split them up 5/5 between the teams and then just assigned everyone else randomly. I thought it was great but the parents of the "better" kids all wanted to see an A team.

My son wasn't in the 10. After the trials they ran a game of him and the other two boys playing up an age going 3 on 5 against some of the other from outside the 10. His team (with only 3 players) won by lots... and then the club told us they weren't good enough to play up an age .

Turns out they wanted to drop the better "playing up" kids back to their own age so they could field a stronger team in that age group... which we thought was a fair call - but the club for some reason felt the need to feed us bs. The 3 on 5 trial was actually to find out which of the younger kids the coach in that age wanted to steal back.

Starts early with Soccer! And you're totally right, everyone seems to feel the need to go full cloak and dagger. I've seen a lot of parents fall out over kids moving clubs to be in better teams, swapping teams at the same club and generally undermining each other and their kids, who are otherwise friends. It's like Survivor... anything goes at Soccer but everyone wants to be fine outside of it!

In AFL, there's no real confusion about which is the A and B team. It doesn't happen with any fuss, it just happens. That might be different in Victoria...

 

[HaroldBishop]

Starts early with Soccer! And you're totally right, everyone seems to feel the need to go full cloak and dagger. I've seen a lot of parents fall out over kids moving clubs to be in better teams, swapping teams at the same club and generally undermining each other and their kids, who are otherwise friends. It's like Survivor... anything goes at Soccer but everyone wants to be fine outside of it!

In AFL, there's no real confusion about which is the A and B team. It doesn't happen with any fuss, it just happens. That might be different in Victoria...

I hear you about soccer mate. My son plays, under 9s this year. Fortunately he's happy just playing in a community team with mates. Some of the kids his age, and parents, are ridiculous with how serious they take it.

For mine, if he's still playing community when he's 18 with his mates that's a big win for mine.

 

[Sparkles]

I hear you about soccer mate. My son plays, under 9s this year. Fortunately he's happy just playing in a community team with mates. Some of the kids his age, and parents, are ridiculous with how serious they take it.

For mine, if he's still playing community when he's 18 with his mates that's a big win for mine.

We're facing that issue this year. Seems all the club's around us are graded. I accidentally let out that grading is a lot more serious this year and playing with friends isn't guaranteed. He was pretty upset, he just loves playing with his mates. I feel like he might give it up one day if he's constantly switching teammates.

 

[BurgoShark]

Soccer is a money sport too. I know plenty of kids who made "rep" teams for away trips because mum and dad were happy to pay for the $5k flights.

 

[BurgoShark]

We're facing that issue this year. Seems all the club's around us are graded. I accidentally let out that grading is a lot more serious this year and playing with friends isn't guaranteed. He was pretty upset, he just loves playing with his mates. I feel like he might give it up one day if he's constantly switching teammates.

It's bizarre to me that soccer of all sports is the one still holding out on the "specialise early / grade early / rep teams early / trophies early" approach. The framework that pretty much every other sport in Australia is working from is based on what was achieved by Belgian Soccer (starting in 1998 and ongoing).

 

[Sparkles]

It's bizarre to me that soccer of all sports is the one still holding out on the "specialise early / grade early / rep teams early / trophies early" approach. The framework that pretty much every other sport in Australia is working from is based on what was achieved by Belgian Soccer (starting in 1998 and ongoing).

Totally. The negative effect of creating competition so early seems really obvious, especially after being involved in other codes.

 

[Flanno]

Soccer is a money sport too. I know plenty of kids who made "rep" teams for away trips because mum and dad were happy to pay for the $5k flights.

True that! Lots of talented players that are missed too because their family can’t afford it.

 

[MrDravid]

It's bizarre to me that soccer of all sports is the one still holding out on the "specialise early / grade early / rep teams early / trophies early" approach. The framework that pretty much every other sport in Australia is working from is based on what was achieved by Belgian Soccer (starting in 1998 and ongoing).

My eldest would have played u11 this year if he didn't want to have a break... hasn't had to go through grading yet (and wouldn't this year) and still able to play with his mates. Granted I think his club is probably an outlier.

 

[HaroldBishop]

My eldest would have played u11 this year if he didn't want to have a break... hasn't had to go through grading yet (and wouldn't this year) and still able to play with his mates. Granted I think his club is probably an outlier.

If clubs were smart there would always be an option for this. I know quite a few kids who have quit when they get a bit older because they can't.

Brain dead.

 

[BurgoShark]

If clubs were smart there would always be an option for this. I know quite a few kids who have quit when they get a bit older because they can't.

Brain dead.

The NRL did a study in 2017.

Top 3 reasons kids leave the game.

1 - Player selection was not fair and equitable
2 - Contribution not valued
3 - Low levels of fun and enjoyment

... and still the majority of coaches and parents think that grading teams, riding the best players and training kids like adults is the way to go.

Kids sign up to play the game. They don't sign up to run laps, hit tackle bags and play 5 minutes on the wing.

 

[HaroldBishop]

The NRL did a study in 2017.

Top 3 reasons kids leave the game.

1 - Player selection was not fair and equitable
2 - Contribution not valued
3 - Low levels of fun and enjoyment

... and still the majority of coaches and parents think that grading teams, riding the best players and training kids like adults is the way to go.

Kids sign up to play the game. They don't sign up to run laps, hit tackle bags and play 5 minutes on the wing.

I agree mate. It's not rocket science, is it.

 

[BurgoShark]

I agree mate. It's not rocket science, is it.

Nope.

Norway Winter Olympics

The Norwegian athlete development model avoids early specialisation and disregards the scoreboard prior to 13 years of age...

“the idea isn’t to have the highest-ranked 10-year-old athletes in the world but rather the most mature adults”...

... Nordic nation also eclipsed the field at the most recent Winter Olympics claiming 39 medals, with 14 being gold, evidence that eliminating rankings through competition doesn’t adversely affect the athlete pool at an elite level.

 

[HaroldBishop]

Nope.

They get a lot of things right in Norway.

 

[bort]

The NRL did a study in 2017.

Top 3 reasons kids leave the game.

1 - Player selection was not fair and equitable
2 - Contribution not valued
3 - Low levels of fun and enjoyment

... and still the majority of coaches and parents think that grading teams, riding the best players and training kids like adults is the way to go.

Kids sign up to play the game. They don't sign up to run laps, hit tackle bags and play 5 minutes on the wing.

What age(s) does this reflect?

Mid to late teens it is probably a different top 3

 

[BurgoShark]

What age(s) does this reflect?

Mid to late teens it is probably a different top 3

Study was on 1804 junior players aged 6-18. Approx. 1/4 of the players were aged 16+.

For seniors it was a different top 3 (e.g. other commitments / fear of injury effecting their job etc.) and the older kids would obviously be more inclined to lean towards those. Fear of injury was 4th for junior players.

The study didn't differentiate between older and younger kids other than to say that players under 15 with less than 2 years in the game were over-represented in many of the categories related to not feeling safe, supported, valued, feeling a sense of belonging etc.

 

[bort]

Study was on 1804 junior players aged 6-18. Approx. 1/4 of the players were aged 16+.

For seniors it was a different top 3 (e.g. other commitments / fear of injury effecting their job etc.) and the older kids would obviously be more inclined to lean towards those. Fear of injury was 4th for junior players.

The study didn't differentiate between older and younger kids other than to say that players under 15 with less than 2 years in the game were over-represented in many of the categories related to not feeling safe, supported, valued, feeling and a sense of belonging.

That's pretty grim
And hardly helps, leading towards the other issues that start to affect as the kids get older