Official Jack Williams

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andrew's_sharks

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bort said:
Okay I'm following now, talking about rotating a few people in and out. Hard to say from my perspective that I know Kaufusi or anyone could use a week off to freshen up. Once Rudolf is back though we probably are in a position where anyone who could benefit from a week off can get it. Not sure on where I stand on a rest just for the sake of it though - I'm sure coach would have some kind of position on it.


Is Hazleton going good in NRL because he got an opportunity or did he get an opportunity because it arose and he was playing well enough in Cup to take it?

Colquhoun sounds like he is playing well in Cup though so if an opportunity arose, even through someone getting a week off to conserve body, I'd expect him to make a go of it.
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I would expect Jesse C to make a go of it as well and potentially unseat Graham in the order. He needs to have a chance to do it.
 
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snowman said:
hazleton was a stand out in cup then got his opportunity and clearly offers more to the team than kaufusi and hunt
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I see Jesse C similar to this, just his injury set him back. Now he is back with game time, he can unseat Graham or Kaufusi. We need our forward pack to do better.
 
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andrew's_sharks said:
I would expect Jesse C to make a go of it as well and potentially unseat Graham in the order. He needs to have a chance to do it.
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He needs Graham to be droppable to do it. Even if he got a chance next game and killed it I think he'd still sit behind Graham in pecking order
 
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snowman said:
hazleton was a stand out in cup then got his opportunity and clearly offers more to the team than kaufusi and hunt
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Would we say that The Nut and his classmates (Iro, Stonestreet) are the first post-Morris group?
As in he wasn't involved in the development pathways with them.

These guys might not even be a cohort, but you get what I mean.
 
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BurgoShark said:
Re-watching the game to gather fancy stats. One thing noticeable is that Williams had some really nice carries returning kick-offs. Those are hard runs and he made really good metres.
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Interested in how he would compare if you treated Talakai as a forward here.
If I ignored his work as an attacking centre, he looked like one of our best forwards. His punch through the middle is incredible. (not advocating for the change necessarily, just pointing out he's a beast)
 
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Sparkles said:
Interested in how he would compare if you treated Talakai as a forward here.
If I ignored his work as an attacking centre, he looked like one of our best forwards. His punch through the middle is incredible. (not advocating for the change necessarily, just pointing out he's a beast)
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He is a machine in the middle. Would make a good lock I reckon.
 
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Sparkles said:
Interested in how he would compare if you treated Talakai as a forward here.
If I ignored his work as an attacking centre, he looked like one of our best forwards. His punch through the middle is incredible. (not advocating for the change necessarily, just pointing out he's a beast)
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Less defensive workload he faces at centre conserves energy for those runs though

Was asked to make 7 tackles the whole game and mostly against smaller bodies. In forwards might make 7 tackles in 3 sets.

In just 27 minutes Williams was asked to make 13, Cam 39 in 53 mins, Wade 23 in 25 mins

Sifa made 15 runs for 178m
Williams 9 runs for 139 (meters padded a lot by 2 line breaks)
McInnes 14 runs for 107m
Wade 2 runs for 19m

Those good runs by Sifa come off the back of conserved energy - make him a 40 minute forward he couldn't have McInnes' workrate in that time - he doesn't even have it in 80, so he'd lose some power from his runs. Even assuming he only played 20ish mins if his defensive load went from 7 tackles in 37 sets to something like 14 in 10 sets the runs in between would likely not be as effective.

Sure maybe you could have another Williams (he doesn't get two linebreaks every week, but playing well) but exchanging a low minute forward (we don't really need between Williams, Hazelton, Graham) in for one of the best meter eating centres in the game.

Graham gave us next to no runs but he does tip on more than most forwards which is not without value, also defensive rate was right up there so period of the game he was on may not have been conducive to him getting more runs when asked to make so many tackles.
If Fitz dropped Graham, moved Talakai to bench forward and brought in Tracey I'd probably be okay with that but I don't think Talakai could make 23 tackles in 25 mins so in some games others would need to take up the slack there, while he runs less effectively. If I recall from BurgoStats Talakai graphs out a poor workrate in the middle, if I am rememebering that correctly is correlates with what I would expect to see.

(tackle numbers are all made+missed+ineffective as that was how many they were challenged with in the game, successful or not)

andrew's_sharks said:
He is a machine in the middle. Would make a good lock I reckon.
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On the ball I agree. Off the ball our smaller forwards faced
Dale 52mins 25 tackles
Cam 53 mins 39 tackles
Wade 25mins 23 tackles
Jack 27 mins 13 tackles

Other than probably Jack's one I'm not sure he has those defensive workloads in him. I'd guess we had a lot of the ball while Jack was on too.
 
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bort said:
Less defensive workload he faces at centre conserves energy for those runs though

Was asked to make 7 tackles the whole game and mostly against smaller bodies. In forwards might make 7 tackles in 3 sets.

In just 27 minutes Williams was asked to make 13, Cam 39 in 53 mins, Wade 23 in 25 mins

Sifa made 15 runs for 178m
Williams 9 runs for 139 (meters padded a lot by 2 line breaks)
McInnes 14 runs for 107m
Wade 2 runs for 19m

Those good runs by Sifa come off the back of conserved energy - make him a 40 minute forward he couldn't have McInnes' workrate in that time - he doesn't even have it in 80, so he'd lose some power from his runs. Even assuming he only played 20ish mins if his defensive load went from 7 tackles in 37 sets to something like 14 in 10 sets the runs in between would likely not be as effective.

Sure maybe you could have another Williams (he doesn't get two linebreaks every week, but playing well) but exchanging a low minute forward (we don't really need between Williams, Hazelton, Graham) in for one of the best meter eating centres in the game.

Graham gave us next to no runs but he does tip on more than most forwards which is not without value, also defensive rate was right up there so period of the game he was on may not have been conducive to him getting more runs when asked to make so many tackles.
If Fitz dropped Graham, moved Talakai to bench forward and brought in Tracey I'd probably be okay with that but I don't think Talakai could make 23 tackles in 25 mins so in some games others would need to take up the slack there, while he runs less effectively. If I recall from BurgoStats Talakai graphs out a poor workrate in the middle, if I am rememebering that correctly is correlates with what I would expect to see.

(tackle numbers are all made+missed+ineffective as that was how many they were challenged with in the game, successful or not)
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Fair points on comparing him to the other forwards, though I'm not convinced his workrate or effectiveness drops very far, or at all, as a two stint, 55 minute forward. How he was played would make a big difference, for sure. We have defensive-focused players and attacking players already and it'd depend on his role. You'd have to say it'd be more the attacking type.
 
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Sparkles said:
Fair points on comparing him to the other forwards, though I'm not convinced his workrate or effectiveness drops very far, or at all, as a two stint, 55 minute forward. How he was played would make a big difference, for sure. We have defensive-focused players and attacking players already and it'd depend on his role. You'd have to say it'd be more the attacking type.
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Whether you agree with my thoughts on his workrate capacity or not, no worries, I understand it isn't your view but I'm going to keep referring to it as it is what I think would happen.

Regarding being an attacking type player, while I agree in principle, the coach doesn't always get to pick and choose how the game is flowing when he makes forward rotations. If things aren't going well you could try and rotate Talakai in to help turn momentum (like Fittler did?) but if it doesn't work quickly(ish) and you stay under the pump he will (I think) probably need to come back off quite quickly.

Probably a great middle forward for games we can bully opposition.
Has potential to help generate middle momentum against stronger opposition but I think only in a shorter spell... but at the expense of having his great runs from centre all game to try and do the same.

From my personal experience I would say 55 minutes in the middle is wayyy more fatiguing than 80 mins in the outside backs.
 
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bort said:
Whether you agree with my thoughts on his workrate capacity or not, no worries, I understand it isn't your view but I'm going to keep referring to it as it is what I think would happen.
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You won't mind then if I continue my conversation with myself also :)

bort said:
Regarding being an attacking type player, while I agree in principle, the coach doesn't always get to pick and choose how the game is flowing when he makes forward rotations. If things aren't going well you could try and rotate Talakai in to help turn momentum (like Fittler did?) but if it doesn't work quickly(ish) and you stay under the pump he will (I think) probably need to come back off quite quickly.

Probably a great middle forward for games we can bully opposition.
Has potential to help generate middle momentum against stronger opposition but I think only in a shorter spell... but at the expense of having his great runs from centre all game to try and do the same.

From my personal experience I would say 55 minutes in the middle is wayyy more fatiguing than 80 mins in the outside backs.
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You could say it's the same situation for any player really, though I get you're saying you don't think Talakai might have as big a motor as some forwards. I don't think that'd be too dramatically the case (maybe history can help us, though he's looking trimmer and more centre'y these days).

It's all just shooting **** really, as I don't think he's moving out of centre anytime soon. And I'm okay with that.
 
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Sparkles said:
You won't mind then if I continue my conversation with myself also :)



You could say it's the same situation for any player really, though I get you're saying you don't think Talakai might have as big a motor as some forwards. I don't think that'd be too dramatically the case (maybe history can help us, though he's looking trimmer and more centre'y these days).

It's all just shooting **** really, as I don't think he's moving out of centre anytime soon. And I'm okay with that.
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Sometimes it's the only way to get the responses you're looking for!

And yep, I want to keep him at centre too
 
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