(Archived) THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

[Thresher]

Lol, is that even an achievement? Acute maybe

Yeah that'll do

 

[stormshark]

Pretty sure Holmes was No 1 for kick return metres in the League, i'l take that. We have had a number of fullbacks who were lax in that regard.

 

[Western Sharkie]

Pretty sure Holmes was No 1 for kick return metres in the League, i'l take that. We have had a number of fullbacks who were lax in that regard.

That's a nice stat but I'd rather our FB have the most tries and try assists TBH.
I'm happy for Val to be in the 1 next season but am hoping that He improves greatly in those 2 stats.

Maybe Val will improve in this area with Moylan and Dugan's guidance.

 

[BlackWhiteBlue]

That's a nice stat but I'd rather our FB have the most tries and try assists TBH.
I'm happy for Val to be in the 1 next season but am hoping that He improves greatly in those 2 stats.

Maybe Val will improve in this area with Moylan and Dugan's guidance.

Agree with this. Im not writing val off as fb yet, but if by end of next year he hasnt made huge improvements then wing for me. He is young and development is part of that transition from wing to fb. But he is not in a position to be demanding his place in the team. He needs to demand it with his performances

 

[Sir Chadley]

Isn't it wonderful how we all have differing opinions on Val?

Isn't it wonderful how one stat can tell us how good he is and another can tell us how bad.

I know I've been vocal on him being a six in the future, but I know that's not going to happen in the short term if at all.
Maybe his passing game isn't as good as I thought it was.

There is no doubt he's a brilliant winger. If we put him back there he'll easily score 15 tries or more for the year with the right support.

It's going to be an interesting decision awaiting Flanno.

Here are my thoughts:

1. We won't get Pearce.
2. Moylan will play six.
3. Val will start the year at FB

That'll do for starters.

 

[Thresher]

Pretty sure Holmes was No 1 for kick return metres in the League, i'l take that. We have had a number of fullbacks who were lax in that regard.

Isn't it funny how times change. When I was a kid my old man used to get exasperated with fullbacks that didn't run the ball back in a straight line to gain the most territory. Used to say "he's run all over the place and gotten nowhere".
I guess it's a bit easier to make it up the other end of the field now with the 10 metre rule and the occasional 7 tackle set.

But as you said, those metres gained are a very valuable asset in any era.

 

[Capital_Shark]

In regards to his fullback potential which people are drumming on about.

What exactly are his strong points which make it he will be such a great fullback.

The modern fullback can,
1 - Run
2 - Ball play
3 - Support play
4 - Kick

Kick? Slater has been the benchmark for a while I recall very few kicks from him and none were 'tactical' in going for field placement, just regulation ad-hoc grubbers in scoring attempts like most back 5 can produce.

But for the others I think he can do all those. He's definitely a good runner of the ball. His ball play needs work but he's 22 (Slater's ball play was a while in the making). Support play he also needs work. He is not the complete package, but he has all the skills to put it together.

Agree with Thresher on the defence side of things. Everything I've heard out of Val about training with Slater has been about organising the defence and being vocal at the back - nothing about working on 40/20s.

 

[CrankyShark]

Thats crap. He is what he is at the moment, that won't change if you pay him more. Its a lot of money comparative to his current skill levels but I think its an investment.

I'm not having a crack at Val. I am very confident that he will ultimately excel at fullback given more time. Up until we signed Moylan a few weeks ago I was supporting continuing investing in him.

However, the playing field may change. We could slot Moylan back to fullback and Val to the wing if Pearce comes on board and that is too good to pass up. He didn't do enough this year to warrant playing fullback with Pearce and Moylan in the side if that eventuates.

 

[Capital_Shark]

I'm not having a crack at Val. I am very confident that he will ultimately excel at fullback given more time. Up until we signed Moylan a few weeks ago I was supporting continuing investing in him.

However, the playing field may change. We could slot Moylan back to fullback and Val to the wing if Pearce comes on board and that is too good to pass up. He didn't do enough this year to warrant playing fullback with Pearce and Moylan in the side if that eventuates.

Sounds like we agree with each other. If it winds up that Moylan isn't one of our best halves options then he has to play FB. Even if Val and Moylan were as good as each other at FB, Moylan still gets the gig because Val is exceptional elsewhere and Moylan not so much.

I dunno why I drag myself into talking about how much we're paying who to do what. As long as we're cap compliant and a good footy side I couldn't give a **** who gets paid what at the end of the day. If you asked me 5mins after fulltime in the 2016 GF I'd have had them all deserving to the highest paid in their position and then some.

 

[CrankyShark]

Okay Blix.

1. He runs well. He's fast, hits the line hard and makes good metres on ball returns. He's currently our best broken play runner but hasn't seen as much space as previous seasons. Perhaps the defence are intent on hitting him with a straight line because they now know what he's capable of.

2. Ball play is not currently his strong point. I think it will improve a lot though and it would have been great if he had a mentor last year like Brailey had with Ennis.

3. He puts in the effort with support play but he's either misjudging the best place to be or he's being watched extra closely by the defence because when he received offloads last season not much seemed to come from them.

4. He's a natural kicker. Can pot a field goal from obtuse angles, has always done well with attacking kicks to the ingoal when on the run at wing. Probably needs more time and training before he becomes a tactical kicker but he's got the talent IMO

This is the thing that bothers me most with his play at fullback. He gets caught out of position. Assuming we don't sign Pearce and he does play the season at fullback, I will be alarmed if he doesn't sort this out by the end of next year.

 

[CrankyShark]

Sounds like we agree with each other. If it winds up that Moylan isn't one of our best halves options then he has to play FB. Even if Val and Moylan were as good as each other at FB, Moylan still gets the gig because Val is exceptional elsewhere and Moylan not so much.

I dunno why I drag myself into talking about how much we're paying who to do what. As long as we're cap compliant and a good footy side I couldn't give a **** who gets paid what at the end of the day. If you asked me 5mins after fulltime in the 2016 GF I'd have had them all deserving to the highest paid in their position and then some.

I'm fixating on what Val gets paid because if he goes back to the wing, he will be paid a fullback's wage, not a winger's wage. That effects how much we have to pay other players under the cap. That said, Val is so far above average as a winger that he doesn't necessarily demand a winger's pay packet.

 

[Capital_Shark]

Mate if he's bagging 18+ tries a season, getting our sets off to good starts on plays 1 & 2 (even taking some returns for Moylan given he's a much stronger returner of the ball) as well as getting in off his wing and around the ball in attack then he is more than just a winger. Winger's worth has increased cause the elite ones do more than just finish. Guys like Semi, Val, Rapana, Vunivalu are way more than blokes who hang out with footballers like wingers are sometimes thought of.

 

[CrankyShark]

Mate if he's bagging 18+ tries a season, getting our sets off to good starts on plays 1 & 2 (even taking some returns for Moylan given he's a much stronger returner of the ball) as well as getting in off his wing and around the ball in attack then he is more than just a winger. Winger's worth has increased cause the elite ones do more than just finish. Guys like Semi, Val, Rapana, Vunivalu are way more than blokes who hang out with footballers like wingers are sometimes thought of.

I agree. However, it will only work for one or two season. Every club is constantly balancing the cap. If we pay big money for a winger we'll end up a forward short due to the cap in a year or so.

I'm in favour of going all in and shifting Val to the wing (where he could conceivably bag 20 tries in a season) and having a red hot crack at the premiership next year. It potentially leaves the club short in the coming seasons though and not competitive for the title in two years from now.

 

[Capital_Shark]

I agree. However, it will only work for one or two season. Every club is constantly balancing the cap. If we pay big money for a winger we'll end up a forward short due to the cap in a year or so.

I'm in favour of going all in and shifting Val to the wing (where he could conceivably bag 20 tries in a season) and having a red hot crack at the premiership next year. It potentially leaves the club short in the coming seasons though and not competitive for the title in two years from now.

Val is only signed for 2+1 in his favour I think so if its not balancing in 2yrs time we can adjust. Thankfully we don't seem to be a club who ties themselves up in long deals like 5yr bull****.

 

[CrankyShark]

Val is only signed for 2+1 in his favour I think so if its not balancing in 2yrs time we can adjust. Thankfully we don't seem to be a club who ties themselves up in long deals like 5yr bull****.

Every club still front or back load contracts to balance their caps though. Playing Val on the wing at 800k does impact how we pay our players in future years. That is the point I'm making. That said I'm in favour of shifting Val to the wing in an all out bid if we sign Pearce. Peace and Chad in the halves, with Dugan Val and Moylan is too much to not launch a major tilt.

 

[Gards]

Mate if he's bagging 18+ tries a season, getting our sets off to good starts on plays 1 & 2 (even taking some returns for Moylan given he's a much stronger returner of the ball) as well as getting in off his wing and around the ball in attack then he is more than just a winger. Winger's worth has increased cause the elite ones do more than just finish. Guys like Semi, Val, Rapana, Vunivalu are way more than blokes who hang out with footballers like wingers are sometimes thought of.

Yep and it could be reasonably argued that wingers are more important and influential in the modern game than centres and fans rarely bat an eyelid when a top flight centre is being paid big money despite the position lacking the prestige and prowess it once did.

A bloke that can be bagging around 20 try's a season is going to be winning you games. Alot more is expected and delivered from elite wingers these days so we need to let go of the notion of arbuitary $ figures determining their positional worth. I'm not arguing what Holmes is or isn't worth dollar wise just not to shoe horn him into the team based purely around a contract figure.

Team balance and sensible cap management is important but these factors alone don't guarantee you winning anything. Holmes contract was due for a significant upgrade regardless of it being on assumption of 'fullback money' or not and we did not know at the times we would be landing dugan, molan ect.

The silver lining is that Holmes will no doubt bust his ass to be the teams best FB, a bit of pressure and competition could be healthy

 

[snowman]

if val is to go back to the wing there is no reason why he cant pop up in the middle of the field for the ball, el masri was the master of this

that said, he is about to enter his peak athletic years and we need this from him playing fullback, not on the wing

people are so obsessed with ball playing yet there are still calls for dugan to go at the back? spare me

james tedesco is considered one of the better full backs in the game and val scored more tries than him last year and had 2 less try assists. patience, he will be a class fullback

if we are also judging a fullback on kick returns, moylan is someone you dont want at the back. he has had games with 20+ runs and 130 meters to show for it

 

[sharkyboy]

Apparently Mitchell Pearce has officially asked for a release from the chooks.

This is huge.

 

[dosit]

As i said earlier , pearce to manly is happening. Manly have released blake green and pearce has asked roosters for a release.

 

[Western Sharkie]

Apparently Mitchell Pearce has officially asked for a release from the chooks.

This is huge.

You would think that it's Manly then as the Seagulls wouldn't have released Blake Green otherwise.