(Archived) THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

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bort

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Going of NRL.com stats, sharks pack had 83 runs for 907 metres at 10.92m per run. Souths pack had 90 runs for 961m at 10.67m per run. Yes they had Moaley and Mitchell who are two less regarded players, but Mitchell in particular was fantastic despite whatever you might think of him. That was also complemented by them having Murray and Koloamatangi who were easily the best two forwards on the park.

They won the middle battle on the eye test 100%, they had more speed through the ruck and Cook was able to play well off that. But we weren't raped. We had every chance to win it off the platform that was laid.
Match the completion rates and tackle efficiency and we presumably are right in it.
Their middle went solid especially down a man (I won't count Arrow, he played more than Williams did) but they didn't make McInnes drop the ball cold or anyone of a dozen other dumb mistakes - their forward platform didn't stop Tricky from kicking a penalty out.

They were more up for it, some early bad luck crushed our confidence and gave them some, defensively our left edge was crazy bad.
I'd fix up any of those things before worrying about the fact the team that played smarter and more confidently with more ball had their forwards look better.

Factor in the 12 point turn around when Ronaldo tried to show off and they scored minutes later and it's a different game

Yeah we need to address our middles - BHU and Royce for mine aren't our future, they're inconsistent and we need a mainstay to lead the pack, but it's not why we lost. Handling errors and some atrocious edge defence are imo.

They both have periods where they look like they can establish themselves as the starter. I do think if one doesn't click this season unless Hazleton soars into contention we should be looking at someone. Not every bigger 'impact prop' will star every game but both of those guys are just a touch too inconsistent still. Injuries havn't helped them.
 

Super Impose

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it helps though

we got raped in the middle by a forward pack that contained shaq mitchell, michael chee kam, & davey maole

not to mention they lost tatola after 11 seconds and lost arrow mid way through the contest

you can lap it up and say errors this, errors that, but our pack, with one extra forward (they carried taffe on the bench) ran for 938 meters, they ran for 1089

our pack isnt crap, but it isnt good, its somewhere in the middle, we are lucky we have an elite half back and a decent back up half back, to go with backs who make up for the work the forwards cant do

you are off your head if you dont think NAS or Klemmer make a difference to the team on the weekend
Mate if we had Klemmer taking all those 5th tackle hit ups in good ball areas - this forum would blow up .

He has ticker and he puts his hand up for hit ups but I just don’t see his style adding much for us .

I want a world middle for us as well - but they don’t appear out of nowhere ..
 

bort

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Mate if we had Klemmer taking all those 5th tackle hit ups in good ball areas - this forum would blow up .

He has ticker and he puts his hand up for hit ups but I just don’t see his style adding much for us .

I want a world middle for us as well - but they don’t appear out of nowhere ..
Slow PTB was one of the main things it’s is assumed cost Klemmer an origin jersey last year. He’s good and I’d have happily taken him but everyone has their pros and cons, even if for some that’s just $$$
 
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Slow PTB was one of the main things it’s is assumed cost Klemmer an origin jersey last year. He’s good and I’d have happily taken him but everyone has their pros and cons, even if for some that’s just $$$
Klemmer and Twal had the tigs crawling at one point on sunday with how slow they were getting to their feet and playing the ball.
 

Wiz

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How did we get to the narrative of "our forward pack sucks"?

The team dropped too much ball, especially at times/places that matter. Even after that, if not for a bogus (head knock) penalty, a dodgy forward pass call and a winger making a dipshit play, the Sharks are right in the contest at the back end of that game.
our forward pack does suck (it’s good just not elite) - it gets monstered pretty often, we rarely win the physical battle especially when we play the better teams

This isn’t new news
 

Wiz

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NAS in our side doesn't change that game last week one bit, nor does it change the finals games.
I feel like it does, one bit of momentum, one bit of a physical edge, one tackle break, one man getting sucked in to take out NAS can create all the difference
 
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I feel like it does, one bit of momentum, one bit of a physical edge, one tackle break, one man getting sucked in to take out NAS can create all the difference
You could say the same about having a genuine extra star in any position though. Manu at centre over Ramien, Keary at 5/8 over Moylan etc. I'm not against recruiting another star in any position if we can, especially in the middle. It was more a point that we lost that game in many more areas than who was wearing the 8/10.
 

Wiz

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You could say the same about having a genuine extra star in any position though. Manu at centre over Ramien, Keary at 5/8 over Moylan etc. I'm not against recruiting another star in any position if we can, especially in the middle. It was more a point that we lost that game in many more areas than who was wearing the 8/10.
You could but we’re talking about forwards and our forwards didn’t win the physical battle… the forwards are important because they lay the platform that we get to play off..

League is pretty simple especially in the forwards ; I feel like we rarely roll other forward packs but if we did/when we do we have the perfect backline and spine to cause massive damage.
 

Milkshark

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You could but we’re talking about forwards and our forwards didn’t win the physical battle… the forwards are important because they lay the platform that we get to play off..

League is pretty simple especially in the forwards ; I feel like we rarely roll other forward packs but if we did/when we do we have the perfect backline and spine to cause massive damage.
Dally M half waiting for this
 
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You could but we’re talking about forwards and our forwards didn’t win the physical battle… the forwards are important because they lay the platform that we get to play off..

League is pretty simple especially in the forwards ; I feel like we rarely roll other forward packs but if we did/when we do we have the perfect backline and spine to cause massive damage.
I'd argue that our forwards gave us enough opportunities to win this game. But I don't disagree that we don't often win the middle. We've had plenty of sharks teams in the past that could win the middle and not score, I think that was more frustrating tbh. Would be nice if we could do both.
 

snowman

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I'd argue that our forwards gave us enough opportunities to win this game. But I don't disagree that we don't often win the middle. We've had plenty of sharks teams in the past that could win the middle and not score, I think that was more frustrating tbh. Would be nice if we could do both.
Id argue our forwards didnt

There werent many sets where they just marched us down

Most of our attack game from Will and Trindall
 

bort

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Team let us down as a whole

Yeah if forwards all play average of say 10% better that would be good.
If Ronnie scores two (Ilias ball and missed assignment) that would be good.
If left edge (and middles who should be sliding over to help) looked remotely like NRL level defence that would be good.
Trindall was pretty decent overall from what we could see but under no pressure botched a penalty kick, getting that would be good.

Beyond that it wouldn't have hurt our chances if ref didn't sting us for two (arguably) bad forward pass calls and an accidental head knock too.

Plenty went wrong in that one.
 

HaroldBishop

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Team let us down as a whole

Yeah if forwards all play average of say 10% better that would be good.
If Ronnie scores two (Ilias ball and missed assignment) that would be good.
If left edge (and middles who should be sliding over to help) looked remotely like NRL level defence that would be good.
Trindall was pretty decent overall from what we could see but under no pressure botched a penalty kick, getting that would be good.

Beyond that it wouldn't have hurt our chances if ref didn't sting us for two (arguably) bad forward pass calls and an accidental head knock too.

Plenty went wrong in that one.
Yeah wasn't good but we dug our own grave well and truly before that.

I'd say he was much better than pretty decent overall.
 

bort

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Yeah wasn't good but we dug our own grave well and truly before that.

I'd say he was much better than pretty decent overall.
I gave him my 3 but the reason I included him in my list was just to show everyone on the park could have done better to help us win
 

D.D

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I really dont think it's so much a forwards / Pack thing.
I agree its a size thing but in other areas. Souths pump it up the middle then capitalize off the play the ball speed through cook and thier big men out wide with the likea of Koloamatangi, Graham amd Mitchel.
Thats where we lack punch. Our second rowers are relatively small guys in Nikora and Wilton. Likewise Ramien and Talakai, they dont have that size and speed to poke thier head through the line often enough to take the tackle with momentum. Talakai I love but he more so is a magnet that carries bodies or bumps them off.

Anyhow its not so much a problem with the personel, it just means we need to be precise and hold onto the ball. We have that side that can endure and outlast the opposition, we need to hold the ball and put the presure on those larger sides. otgerwise in am even contest we are naturally going to see the likes of your Souths, raiders and cowboys with big boys across the park look good on the eye and creat opportunities.
 

HaroldBishop

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I really dont think it's so much a forwards / Pack thing.
I agree its a size thing but in other areas. Souths pump it up the middle then capitalize off the play the ball speed through cook and thier big men out wide with the likea of Koloamatangi, Graham amd Mitchel.
Thats where we lack punch. Our second rowers are relatively small guys in Nikora and Wilton. Likewise Ramien and Talakai, they dont have that size and speed to poke thier head through the line often enough to take the tackle with momentum. Talakai I love but he more so is a magnet that carries bodies or bumps them off.

Anyhow its not so much a problem with the personel, it just means we need to be precise and hold onto the ball. We have that side that can endure and outlast the opposition, we need to hold the ball and put the presure on those larger sides. otgerwise in am even contest we are naturally going to see the likes of your Souths, raiders and cowboys with big boys across the park look good on the eye and creat opportunities.
Not sure I agree on Ramien and Talakai, our 2-5 are all very good at making metres out of our end.

As I said earlier, Nikora has gone to a new level imo lately. No issue at all with him.

Still think Brailey needs to step up this area of his game, he's in the best position to make quick metres when the opportunity is there.
 

Sharkfox

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We got good forwards, they just need to psych up more and play with more intensity, especially in defense. Tell Fitz to get our forwards together before games and do a 70s west magpies pre game warmup to fire them up or something😄
👋🏼💥😡
 

Sparkles

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I really dont think it's so much a forwards / Pack thing.
I agree its a size thing but in other areas. Souths pump it up the middle then capitalize off the play the ball speed through cook and thier big men out wide with the likea of Koloamatangi, Graham amd Mitchel.
Thats where we lack punch. Our second rowers are relatively small guys in Nikora and Wilton. Likewise Ramien and Talakai, they dont have that size and speed to poke thier head through the line often enough to take the tackle with momentum. Talakai I love but he more so is a magnet that carries bodies or bumps them off.

Anyhow its not so much a problem with the personel, it just means we need to be precise and hold onto the ball. We have that side that can endure and outlast the opposition, we need to hold the ball and put the presure on those larger sides. otgerwise in am even contest we are naturally going to see the likes of your Souths, raiders and cowboys with big boys across the park look good on the eye and creat opportunities.
Souths seemed to have the better game plan, or at least executed it better. They identified Moylan and his edge and slammed Koloamatangi and Graham through them all night.

We seemed to have our plan, which we've seen before, and it didn't often trouble Souths. Maybe our execution was lacking because Nicho was out, maybe Souths had watched enough video to be well prepared.
 

D.D

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Not sure I agree on Ramien and Talakai, our 2-5 are all very good at making metres out of our end.

As I said earlier, Nikora has gone to a new level imo lately. No issue at all with him.

Still think Brailey needs to step up this area of his game, he's in the best position to make quick metres when the opportunity is there.

Oh I agree, Its not the metres im talking about tho. I think our forwards cop it unnecesarily with regards to metres, as we definitely roll up the field as a collective, we can get forward. I think its the service, ball retention and precisness of our play that hurts us, esspecially against sides with size in various areas.

But in terms of the players we have, we lack those big, and or rangy lads on the edges. Its only a few sides that impose this on us but using souths as an example, its the Koloamatangi, Grahams and Latrels that can follow up from a good hitup that hurt us and most teams for that matter. And when we attack we don't have those, we have different assets. So Naturaly when we lose to those teams that becomes the topic of discussion.
If and when we execute our own game plan its then other teams crying out for that class, mobility and skills to execute attacking moves like us.

Too summarise, size only becomes an issue on our edges when we dont execute and complete our own sets and gameplan.
But heck I do think we could use a big boy on an edge forward role.
if that makes any sense haha.
 
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