(Archived) THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

[HaroldBishop]

Of course if you have injuries to key players it is more difficult to win a comp. There is a lot involved with depth though. If you look at penrith for example they have crazy depth due to a strong NSW Cup side and a good junior system. Yes there is cap limitations, but a well run system finds good depth.

I reckon our junior system is in the top quartile.

 

[Proud Shark]

Of course if you have injuries to key players it is more difficult to win a comp. There is a lot involved with depth though. If you look at penrith for example they have crazy depth due to a strong NSW Cup side and a good junior system. Yes there is cap limitations, but a well run system finds good depth.

The chat was more around recruiting more depth though rather than the system. I don't disagree with you at all though and would love for our dev system to be even better than it is.

For the record though, we only finished one win behind Penrith in each of Matts, Ball and Flegg. And the Jets got the minor prem. The Penrith system is obviously the envy of everyone at the moment. But we aren't doing badly ourselves.

 

[bort]

Of course if you have injuries to key players it is more difficult to win a comp. There is a lot involved with depth though. If you look at penrith for example they have crazy depth due to a strong NSW Cup side and a good junior system. Yes there is cap limitations, but a well run system finds good depth.

Agreed, and if you don't have many injuries everyone who comes through comes into a very set team. It's easier to have good depth the less injuries your team has.

Turuva's first game for Penrith he played with 14 of their GF 17* (I'm counting May even though he didn't play GF as he would have been picked)
Makes it very easy for the new young gun to look good in that circumstance, although this particular game he only played 11 minutes off the bench.
But meanwhile their Cup side lost him, SOS, Chris Smith but did have Staines. So is still also going to be pretty strong by virtue of not needing to call up many players. And so the effect continues down the line. At every level you have more of your preferred 17 available your next tier down is less impacted and looks stronger. Which means the few guys who do come up have an easier time and are able to look good.

Don't get me wrong, they have a lot of good players through these systems, I'm just highlighting the lack of injuries at the top had a great flow on benefit for them.

The chat was more around recruiting more depth though rather than the system. I don't disagree with you at all though and would love for our dev system to be even better than it is.

For the record though, we only finished one win behind Penrith in each of Matts, Ball and Flegg. And the Jets got the minor prem. The Penrith system is obviously the envy of everyone at the moment. But we aren't doing badly ourselves.

Even better would be great but your correct it's in a very good place and I think just how well we did has been overlooked by the fact someone did better.
Kind of happy to fly under the radar on that one though.

 

[BurgoShark]

fulltime member

Yes. Dev players are full time members. We have gone over this half a dozen times.

Rivett was a full time member in 2021 (dev).
Pele was a full time member in 2020 (T&T).

Dev players are with the team full time, and so are train and trial players if/when their contract extends into the season.

Iro is dev in 2023, top 30 in 2024.

… unless something changes between now and the start of the season that is. They could choose to upgrade him any time they like.

That is what we are discussing. If Miller leaves, does his spot in the top 30 go to one of the dev players or does the club try to sign a new player???

 

[Sharkfox]

OTHERWISE - WHO FROM THIS MOB
SUNIA TURUVA ?

Panthers’ cap headache; Broncos’ $800k juggling act: The WC stars set for BIG payday​

MITCHELL MOSES
The star halfback was already set for a hefty pay rise in his next deal after steering the Eels to a grand final, but his efforts for Lebanon helped cement the fact that he’s one of the premier No.7s in the game. Moses captained Lebanon to a World Cup quarter-final and although that’s where the nation’s journey ended, the 28-year-old proved he’s not only got the skill to demand $1 million a season, but also the leadership qualities worth building a team around too. No wonder the Tigers and Bulldogs have shown interest in him. Moses is contracted to the Eels — who are desperate to keep him — until the end of 2023 but has hit the open market for 2024 and beyond.

Mitchell Moses enjoyed a stellar World Cup with Lebanon.Source: Getty Images

STEPHEN CRICHTON
The Panthers’ battle to keep Stephen Crichton has gotten even tougher following Samoa’s World Cup success. Although there’s one game to go, Samoa have been the story of the tournament and right at the heart of their historic semi-final win was Crichton’s golden point field goal. Like Moses, Crichton has hit the open market for 2024 and beyond, and his form at club level has already earned him the right to demand big bucks. And now his contribution to Samoa has further proven, that at just 22-years old, he has the makings to be a dead set superstar of the game. No doubt Penrith want to keep Crichton but they won’t be able to compete with the offers that will likely come his way once he returns to Australia. Crichton has been linked to the Bulldogs as a fullback option, while the Dolphins need star-power and have some cash up their sleeve.

Suaalii’s value is on the riseSource: Getty Images

JOSEPH SUAALII
The sky really is the limit for Suaalii. Still only 19-years old, he found himself in a position most players can only dream of — Kangaroos coach Mal Meninga all but confirming he’d be selected for the World Cup. Instead, Suaalii turned down the highly coveted jumper to star at fullback for Samoa in decision that could pay dividends. Suaalii’s ambition to play fullback at NRL level is no secret and his efforts for Samoa — particularly against Tonga in the quarter-final — have helped that dream. It’ll be years before that can come to life at the Roosters given James Tedesco and Joey Manu are ahead of him, but what this World Cup has done is show rival clubs that Suaalii can thrive at fullback. That could be a bit of an issue for the Roosters, given Suaalii has an option in his favour for 2024 and can talk to rivals once he returns to Australia.

JAROME LUAI
The World Cup was a big opportunity for Luai to prove he’s so much more than Nathan Cleary’s halves partner — and he’s done exactly that. Luai has grown to be one of the top tier five-eighth’s in the NRL over the last couple of years, winning two premierships and playing five games for New South Wales. But he’s done it all with Cleary by his side. Stepping away from that partnership and steering Samoa to a World Cup final could be one of the more defining moments in his career. Imagine if Samoa can upset Australia the final, though! In regards to his contract, he may not have increased his value from the $700,000 he’s understood to be earning at the Panthers, but he’s exceeded expectations and proved some doubters wrong.


HERBIE FARNWORTH
The Broncos centre was in red-hot form before suffering a biceps injury in Round 14. He missed the rest of the season and his name drifted into the background. But Farnworth’s form for England is a reminder of what he can offer — and it couldn’t have come at a better time. The 22-year-old is free to negotiate with rivals for 2024 and beyond. Like Suaalii, he has ambitions to play fullback but there’s no guarantee that will happen at Red Hill. The Broncos have declared the No.1 jersey is up for grabs with Farnworth in a battle with new signing Reece Walsh and Tesi Niu but despite being in the mix,News Corp claims Farnworth was “filthy” when the club lured Walsh back. Regardless of where he plays for the Broncos, Farnworth has starred at centre for England, averaging 141 running metres and four tackle busts a game. His performance in the semi-final loss was particularly impressive, finishing with two tries, 138 running metres, four tackle busts and 20 tackles with just one miss. It’s understood he could see offers as high as $800,000 come his way and with the likes of Kotoni Staggs, Adam Reynolds and Payne Haas on the books the club may struggle to compete with that.

Walsh fighting for Broncos fullback role | 01:12

DOMINIC YOUNG
The towering winger has topped off his first full season in the NRL with a solid World Cup campaign with England. Young kicked off the tournament with a double against Samoa after being a late promotion to the starting side in place of Ryan Hall. He backed that up with another double the following week against France and then an incredible four tries — as well as 10 tackle busts and four linebreaks — against Greece. The 21-year-old joined the Knights last season with a stack of potential, but little experience. He’ll return to the Hunter during pre-season with a new-found confidence and the right to up his asking price. Young is free to negotiate with rivals once he returns from the World Cup and it was revealed a few weeks ago that five clubs are interested.

JOSH ADDO-CARR
Well, he may be locked in until the end of 2025 on a cool $550,000-a-season, but Addo-Carr’s thrilling performances for Australia has him back in the conversation of best winger in the game — although some will claim he never left it. Addo-Carr is the tournament’s top tryscorer and his blistering speed has been on show in four of the Kangaroos’ five games. It won’t do much for his value given he can’t hit the market until November, 2024, but it should send a stern statement to NSW coach Brad Fittler. The 27-year-old was controversially overlooked this year but if he continues at this rate next season and is injury-free he should be one of the first players picked for the Blues.

JACOB KIRAZ
Jacob Kiraz has only scratched the surface of his potential. The 20-year-old was a revelation on the wing for the Bulldogs this year and then was a bit of a surprise package at fullback for Lebanon. It’s a position the Bulldogs are struggling with at the moment given Jake Averillo is still very much learning his trade there, but Kiraz could end up being the answer. It’s at least something he’s keen to explore, telling News Corp: “Eventually I want to be a fullback.” The more versatile a player, the better and Kiraz has already proven he can handle the positional switch.


SUNIA TURUVA
Can the Panthers find room for Sunia Turuva in their 17? They’re going to have to or risk losing him to a rival club. Turuva shone at fullback for Fiji, averaging 174 running metres and four tackle busts per game. The 20-year-old played two of his three NRL games on the wing this year but is most potent at fullback. The Panthers know that and now the rest of the NRL knows that too.

Cleary expects more from himself | 03:40

SIUA WONG
The Roosters already knew they had a good one in Siua Wong. That’s why they bumped the 19-year-old up from Jersey Flegg to NSW Cup last season and have locked him in on a Top 30 deal for the next two years. But his performances for Fiji have been nothing short of outstanding. Wong started in the second row with Viliame Kikau for all four of Fiji’s games and proved why he should — and almost certainly will — make his NRL debut next season. Wong put his name on the map in Fiji’s 60-4 win over Italy, running for 153 metres — the most of any forward on the field — getting two tackle busts, two offloads and making 17 tackles with zero misses. In the semi-final loss to New Zealand he made a game-high of 46 tackles with just one miss. In fact, Wong only missed four tackles throughout the tournament — 13 less than Kikau. He also averaged 97 running metres per game — 37 more than Kikau. And remember this is a kid that only had 10 NSW Cup games under his belt.
KHALED RAJAB
It’s been a big couple of months for Khaled Rajab, he played in the NSW Cup grand final and has played on the world stage alongside one of the biggest-name players in the game. Rajab got his chance to combine with Mitchell Moses after Adam Doueihi copped a suspension for dissent and didn’t look out of place. The following week he had an absolute blinder against Jamaica, scoring a try, setting up four more, getting two linebreaks, three linebreak assists and running for 97 metres. Coach Michael Cheika was so impressed that he included him on the bench for Lebanon’s quarter-final clash with Australia. Moses has declared Rajab has a “massive future,’ while Matt Burton revealed in a Q&A with The Sydney Morning Herald that Rajab will fight it out with Kyle Flanagan for the Bulldogs’ No.7 jersey. Remarkably, Rajab is only on a train-and-trial, but his World Cup may help his cause in landing a Top 30 deal with the Dogs before next season kicks off.
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And then there’s a handful of players that have put themselves in the best possible position to pick up an NRL opportunity — should that be something they’re interested in.
TIM LAFAI

Has there been a better centre in this World Cup? Tim Lafai wound back the clock to be one of Samoa’s best players and was rewarded with a spot in the Team of the Tournament. The 31-year-old has already played 170 NRL games between 2011 and 2020 but couldn’t land a contract last year so ended up working on a construction site. He got an opportunity to join Salford in the Super League this year and is now knocking on the door of an NRL return after being named in the Super League Dream Team and continuing that form with Samoa. Remarkably he wasn’t meant to make the team, but injuries opened the door for Lafai — and he’s made the most of every moment. Lafai has scored six tries in four games, while averaging 151 metres and seven tackle busts a game. He’s also only missed two tackles in four games. Following Samoa’s historic semi-final win over England, coach Matt Parish called Lafai’s efforts “incredible.”
GEORGE WILLIAMS
The English halfback’s stint with the Raiders didn’t go to plan, but he hasn’t rule out giving the NRL another crack, telling foxsports.com.au: “I’d never write off coming back, I really loved it.” Williams returned to the Super League mid-2021 to join Warrington and played a big role in England’s form during the World Cup, earning a spot in the Team of the Tournament and making the five-player shortlist for the Golden Boot. The 27-year-old scored three tries and set up 13 in five games, while averaging 101 metres and three tackle busts a game.

Radley altercation under investigation | 02:10

RHYSE MARTIN
Just like Lafai, Rhyse Martin’s first grade career started in the NRL, playing 25 games for the Bulldogs over one and a half seasons before joining Leeds in mid-2019. He’s now got 75 Super League games under his belt — as well as 15 games for Papua New Guinea — and has never looked better. The 29-year-old captained the Kumuls to a quarter-final and was a standout, scoring two tries in four games as well as averaging 83 metres and 38 tackles a game. The sharpshooter only missed two goals from 16 attempts too throughout the tournament. Martin was actually closing in on a world record, having kicked 41 consecutive goals, but when he had the chance to break the record in the Kumuls’ clash with Cook Islands he missed.
EDWIN IPAPE
He could be the biggest breakout star of the World Cup and you’d imagine Edwin Ipape’s efforts for Papua New Guinea would have put him on the radar of some NRL clubs looking to add to their hooking depth. The 23-year-old played for Leigh in the UK’s second division this year but looked to have the ability to play first grade. Ipape announced himself with a man of the match performance in Kumuls’ first game of the World Cup, scoring a try, setting up another, getting a linebreak, a linebreak assist, three tackle busts, four offloads and running for 122 metres, while making 33 tackles. He backed it up with another 100-metre-plus effort the following week along with 39 tackles. Ipape improved his defence too over the course of the tournament, going from seven missed tackles in the first game to making 30 tackles with just one miss in the quarter-final. His form was rewarded with a spot in the World Cup Team of the Tournament and a Golden Boot nomination.

I'd look at Ipape, Sualli and Farnworth

 

[andrew's_sharks]

The chat was more around recruiting more depth though rather than the system. I don't disagree with you at all though and would love for our dev system to be even better than it is.

For the record though, we only finished one win behind Penrith in each of Matts, Ball and Flegg. And the Jets got the minor prem. The Penrith system is obviously the envy of everyone at the moment. But we aren't doing badly ourselves.

We are doing well. Which is why I am not too concerned about big name recruitments. We should be developing good players and keeping the best.

 

[BurgoShark]

Yeah I know but I am talking about who I would like/prefer to play.
Iro can easily play whenever we want by upgrading him to top 30.
At the moment we have open spots, and you mentioned signing or upgrading players too.

To your list, I reckon we could argue Hynes out of 1.
I don't remember the exact circumstances but from memory Roosters got a game squad player exemption a few years back because they didn't have anyone else available without moving another player (I think they were able to bring in a hooker even though they had Radley who had played hooker for them plenty before). A bit dissimilar to that but if they could say 'no he is already playing another position' everyone else should be able to too
But with Dykes and Taukamo as recognised fullbacks there is obviously other people who would come into that jersey ahead of an exemption.

Yeah. That’s why I had Dykes out in my example.

I don’t remember the Radley example. I do remember an example where the league’s cap auditor released a statement actually naming a player who they can move.

The statement said something like “Joe Bloggs is healthy and in the top 30. He has previously played 15 NRL games at fullback, so is considered capable of playing this position. The NRL will not allow dispensation for “team x” to use Fred Nurk as a fullback unless they upgrade his contract”.

 

[BurgoShark]

We are doing well. Which is why I am not too concerned about big name recruitments. We should be developing good players and keeping the best.

Also noting that development doesn’t just mean juniors. Identifying guys who have slipped through the cracks is another part of it.

Hunt, Talakai, Rudolf, Miller, BHU, Trindall, Ramien, Berrell, Hiroti are guys who never played Sharks juniors but have been developed by the club.

 

[bort]

Yeah. That’s why I had Dykes out in my example.

I don’t remember the Radley example. I do remember an example where the league’s cap auditor released a statement actually naming a player who they can move.

The statement said something like “Joe Bloggs is healthy and in the top 30. He has previously played 15 NRL games at fullback, so is considered capable of playing this position. The NRL will not allow dispensation for “team x” to use Fred Nurk as a fullback unless they upgrade his contract”.

Wonder whether the Radley or Bloggs one is more recent.
Also whether your Nurk was already named in the 17 or if he was just available in the 30.

 

[BurgoShark]

Wonder whether the Radley or Bloggs one is more recent.
Also whether your Nurk was already named in the 17 or if he was just available in the 30.

Nurk was a dev player. They asked for him to be named in the 21 on TLT. The NRL turned it down.

As you said - recency might be the winner here.

 

[Proud Shark]

I'd look at Ipape, Sualli and Farnworth

If we were to lose Talakai i'd be all over Herbie. I'd be comfortable in us taking a risk and offering Sualli a fullback deal now. I doubt he ever leaves easts but it's worth a crack.

 

[BurgoShark]

Wonder whether the Radley or Bloggs one is more recent.
Also whether your Nurk was already named in the 17 or if he was just available in the 30.

Found one example. Im not sure this is the one I was thinking of.

Manly 2018. API got injured.
Bloggs is Hastings. Nurk is Fainu.

Barrett asked for Fainu to come in. NRL said that both Hastings and Lewis Brown had hooker experience, so no go.

Manly ended up releasing Hastings a few weeks later to make room for Fainu.

 

[Sevshark]

If we were to lose Talakai i'd be all over Herbie. I'd be comfortable in us taking a risk and offering Sualli a fullback deal now. I doubt he ever leaves easts but it's worth a crack.

Think he's already shown he'll go wherever benefits him.

 

[HaroldBishop]

If we were to lose Talakai i'd be all over Herbie. I'd be comfortable in us taking a risk and offering Sualli a fullback deal now. I doubt he ever leaves easts but it's worth a crack.

How much would you be willing to pay?

 

[BurgoShark]

If we were to lose Talakai i'd be all over Herbie. I'd be comfortable in us taking a risk and offering Sualli a fullback deal now. I doubt he ever leaves easts but it's worth a crack.

His agent came out not long ago and said "play him at fullback or he is leaving".

 

[Proud Shark]

How much would you be willing to pay?

Hard to know, if the cap hits 12m then maybe starting at 700/750k with increases built in year on year. It's pretty clear he's going to be a star, and I think the club that's prepared to get him for his next contract will benefit.

His agent came out not long ago and said "play him at fullback or he is leaving".

I hadn't seen that. Very interesting then.

 

[HaroldBishop]

Hard to know, if the cap hits 12m then maybe starting at 700/750k with increases built in year on year. It's pretty clear he's going to be a star, and I think the club that's prepared to get him for his next contract will benefit.

I hadn't seen that. Very interesting then.

I know it's overs but I reckon it would take almost a mill.

 

[Proud Shark]

I know it's overs but I reckon it would take almost a mill.

I don't think you'd need a mil for 2024, but I think the end of the 3/4 year contract would have to be up there. Potentially with an Origin bonus thrown in early on. Say 750, 850, 950, 1.05m over 4 years.

 

[Rob]

Don’t get why more players / clubs don’t sign a contracts with their worth being X % of the salary cap.

 

[Sevshark]

His agent came out not long ago and said "play him at fullback or he is leaving".

Think that was the art critic mentor Burgo