(Archived) THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

[HaroldBishop]

centre in my opinion is our biggest weakness. Besides halfback.

I can’t stand bird but we need a player like him in our backline.

I'd definitely take him back if he wanted to play centre.

 

[Proud Shark]

I'd definitely take him back if he wanted to play centre.

Not for the 600k he supposedly wants.

 

[HaroldBishop]

Not for the 600k he supposedly wants.

Agree wouldn't pay that

 

[Sparkles]

Not for the 600k he supposedly wants.

Don't expect he'll get that anywhere else. $450k, that's my final offer

 

[Thresher]

Don't expect he'll get that anywhere else. $450k, that's my final offer

With no fast food chain 3rd party agreements.

 

[Gal The Goat]

Don't expect he'll get that anywhere else. $450k, that's my final offer

Dragons offer is apparently $500k that he’s turned down. I can’t see him getting $600k anywhere really, unless he holds off and absolutely kills it this year.

 

[Sparkles]

With no fast food chain 3rd party agreements.

He gets to call Kennedy 'Val'

 

[Thresher]

Dragons offer is apparently $500k that he’s turned down. I can’t see him getting $600k anywhere really, unless he holds off and absolutely kills it this year.

Boosting his ego probably equals 200k

Offer him 400k and tell him he's awesome

 

[Tatus]

centre in my opinion is our biggest weakness. Besides halfback.

I can’t stand bird but we need a player like him in our backline.

Give me a prop please. We saw Uele, Talakai and Hunt, Wilton, Nikora all in action recently. Nikora probaly the most impressive. You’ve got McInnes, Graham and Finucane making up other notable names in the team, none of them really scream meter eaters.

Wondering where we will get our go forward from this year…

 

[bort]

Give me a prop please. We saw Uele, Talakai and Hunt, Wilton, Nikora all in action recently. Nikora probaly the most impressive. You’ve got McInnes, Graham and Finucane making up other notable names in the team, none of them really scream meter eaters.

Wondering where we will get our go forward from this year…

Some meaningless numbers to think about, or not

Williams and Rudolf were 26th and 27th for average meters per game from a forward.
Talakai 31, Wilton 41, Finucane 49
(Ahead of Woods and Tolman)

Williams and Rudolf averaged 114 per game in 49 and 56 mins

In the backs Ramien is 35 and Kennedy 39, Tracey 50, Takakai 72, Mulitalo 73, Katoa 80

So if we lack meters, other than everyone just getting better which would also be great, arguably it’s the backs that need to produce a bit better than the forwards?
Probably wouldn’t hurt for one forward to make a decent move up the charts though.

Or the edges could probably contribute a bit more - Graham sits 37th amongst edges and Nikora sits 43
But those numbers are a bit skewed, JT13 ranks one and Williams, Takakai and Wilton all rank ahead of Graham and Nikora too. Doesn’t help Graham didn’t finish a bunch of games…

Anyway

 

[Capital_Shark]

In the backs Ramien is 35 and Kennedy 39, Tracey 50, Takakai 72, Mulitalo 73, Katoa 80

Ramien needs to eat meters like a fat **** eats pizza. He's big, he's powerful. He likes the contact probably a bit much - engages in too much wrestle with the ball. Just tear into runs with impact, quick PTBs especially outta trouble. Save the wrestle for D.

 

[andrew's_sharks]

Some meaningless numbers to think about, or not

Williams and Rudolf were 26th and 27th for average meters per game from a forward.
Talakai 31, Wilton 41, Finucane 49
(Ahead of Woods and Tolman)

Williams and Rudolf averaged 114 per game in 49 and 56 mins

In the backs Ramien is 35 and Kennedy 39, Tracey 50, Takakai 72, Mulitalo 73, Katoa 80

So if we lack meters, other than everyone just getting better which would also be great, arguably it’s the backs that need to produce a bit better than the forwards?
Probably wouldn’t hurt for one forward to make a decent move up the charts though.

Or the edges could probably contribute a bit more - Graham sits 37th amongst edges and Nikora sits 43
But those numbers are a bit skewed, JT13 ranks one and Williams, Takakai and Wilton all rank ahead of Graham and Nikora too. Doesn’t help Graham didn’t finish a bunch of games…

Anyway

Graham has never been a huge meter eater. I like Nikora, I just wish he had another 5kg of muscle. seems to be smart and fairly quick, just needs that little bit extra size.

We are potentially a top level prop short unless Toby, Hunt or BHU find an extra gear.

 

[BurgoShark]

Some meaningless numbers to think about, or not

Williams and Rudolf were 26th and 27th for average meters per game from a forward.
Talakai 31, Wilton 41, Finucane 49
(Ahead of Woods and Tolman)

Williams and Rudolf averaged 114 per game in 49 and 56 mins

In the backs Ramien is 35 and Kennedy 39, Tracey 50, Takakai 72, Mulitalo 73, Katoa 80

So if we lack meters, other than everyone just getting better which would also be great, arguably it’s the backs that need to produce a bit better than the forwards?
Probably wouldn’t hurt for one forward to make a decent move up the charts though.

Or the edges could probably contribute a bit more - Graham sits 37th amongst edges and Nikora sits 43
But those numbers are a bit skewed, JT13 ranks one and Williams, Takakai and Wilton all rank ahead of Graham and Nikora too. Doesn’t help Graham didn’t finish a bunch of games…

Anyway

I choose to not think about them

Doesn’t help averages when plenty of those players spent time in other positions (Tracey in halves/FB, Williams and Talakai at centre etc.). Going 20+ minutes without the ball in a handful of games doesn’t help either.

Again this is just another example of “metres” being an oversimplified stat which tells you that an individual has a good work rate but doesn’t give you any way of comparing players.

If you want to compare output between players it should exclude time spent in “emergency” positions. Jack Williams shouldn’t be judged on his half a game at centre.

It would need to take in to consideration both possession and field position. E.g. In round 25 Aaron Woods had a great first stint but in his second stint he had hardly any metres. During his second stint the Sharks had the ball for less than 15 tackles in 17 minutes of footy.

I agree though that the team is still 1 prop short of having a good rotation.

*

If you wanted to compare just Sharks forwards between each other, you could look at adjusting their metres in each game based on only time spent in running forward roles, and factoring in the total possession share for the game. Even that would have big gaps in it - but it would be way more useful than “metres” for indicating work rate.

For comparing outside backs you would probably want to exclude kick returns and everything inside the attacking 40 or so. If I want to know who my best winger is at bringing the ball out of trouble, including 20-40m runs to score in the corner doesn’t help.

 

[BurgoShark]

OK bort - you've got me thinking now. I'm going to look at comparing Sharks forwards based on metres-per-80minutes-played, excluding kick return metres and adjusted for possession share. I'll get back to you.

 

[Sparkles]

OK bort - you've got me thinking now. I'm going to look at comparing Sharks forwards based on metres-per-80minutes-played, excluding kick return metres and adjusted for possession share. I'll get back to you.

Should be interesting. There's been a lot of talk about how to use forwards (especially around JT). Whether 80 mins (or big minutes) is the target or shorter, intense bursts lead to a bigger contribution

 

[bort]

OK bort - you've got me thinking now. I'm going to look at comparing Sharks forwards based on metres-per-80minutes-played, excluding kick return metres and adjusted for possession share. I'll get back to you.

That’s lucky because I’m interested but no way I was going to bother haha

Re what you said about backs, not sure I’d discount those meters, those are very valuable

 

[BurgoShark]

That’s lucky because I’m interested but no way I was going to bother haha

Re what you said about backs, not sure I’d discount those meters, those are very valuable

It would be nice to have a breakdown by field position though. Running metres inside own half and in attacking half would be more useful for a centre/winger than just one number. Hiroti led the team in running metres a couple of times last year - and it certainly wasn't from doing a million hit-ups out of his own end.

Plus - we all know the story of "halfback who shall not be named bombs it to the Tupou 15 all game and he ends up with 200+ metres". All teams do this, so comparing wingers by kick return metres is not really an indicator of who is doing a better job.

 

[bort]

It would be nice to have a breakdown by field position though. Running metres inside own half and in attacking half would be more useful for a centre/winger than just one number. Hiroti led the team in running metres a couple of times last year - and it certainly wasn't from doing a million hit-ups out of his own end.

Plus - we all know the story of "halfback who shall not be named bombs it to the Tupou 15 all game and he ends up with 200+ metres". All teams do this, so comparing wingers by kick return metres is not really an indicator of who is doing a better job.

Yeah if you wanna go crazy in depth, but too much hard work. I know what you mean but the base stats are sooo much easier to get haha

Meters is meters. If Ronnie was making a tonne only because other teams keep bombing him so be it. If they keep bombing to him and he’s making **** all and keeps dropping it different story.

At the end of the day you can call it affected X Y or Z circumstance but if someone averages good meters over the season then they probably are making good meters for us.

 

[egg]

Will be interesting to see if Pele can step it up a couple of notches this year

 

[HaroldBishop]

It would be nice to have a breakdown by field position though. Running metres inside own half and in attacking half would be more useful for a centre/winger than just one number. Hiroti led the team in running metres a couple of times last year - and it certainly wasn't from doing a million hit-ups out of his own end.

Plus - we all know the story of "halfback who shall not be named bombs it to the Tupou 15 all game and he ends up with 200+ metres". All teams do this, so comparing wingers by kick return metres is not really an indicator of who is doing a better job.

Maybe post contact metres are a better indication?