(Archived) THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

[snowman]

chad, better than ash taylor? and you said that with a straight face? **** me

there are only 3 half backs i would have chad over right now, mbye, hodkinson and brooks. he isn't an elite half, he will never be up echelon and he shouldnt be paid like it either

 

[snowman]

Unfair comparison? He's playing halfback, generally considered the most influential position in the team. I'm not bagging him – I love the Chad – but who are we meant to compare him to if not other players in his position?

dont compare him to the best players because he will look crap, compare him to the crap ones so he looks good.....

 

[Sir Chadley]

dont compare him to the best players because he will look crap, compare him to the crap ones so he looks good.....

I agree that Chad is nowhere near the top halves in the game but what part is lacking do you think - composure, execution or consistency. Or all three?

 

[BurgoShark]

Unfair comparison? He's playing halfback, generally considered the most influential position in the team. I'm not bagging him – I love the Chad – but who are we meant to compare him to if not other players in his position?

The others are fair, but I mean Thurston, Johnson and Cronk. Those guys are all making North of $1m. I'm sure whatever Chad wants it isn't in the ball park of those 3.

dont compare him to the best players because he will look crap, compare him to the crap ones so he looks good.....

All I am saying is let's compare him to first grade halves rather than guys who have played 20+ test matches.

chad, better than ash taylor? and you said that with a straight face? **** me

there are only 3 half backs i would have chad over right now, mbye, hodkinson and brooks. he isn't an elite half, he will never be up echelon and he shouldnt be paid like it either

Even JOSH FRICKIN' McCRONE??? Jokes ...

Taylor is nothing special - he's Aiden Sezer version 2.0. Good kicking game but little else.

I'm not arguing that Chad is elite ... just that he is "middle of the pack" whereas the theme here seems to be that he is lucky to be in fg and probably wouldn't get a gig elsewhere. If he's asking for $800k he can get stuffed, but if he's asking for $600k (a little more than Brooks and half what those big dogs at the top are getting) I don't think it unreasonable.

 

[CHOGM]

jesus ****ing christ... how else do they develop if you dont ****ing play them? honestly?

how old was johns when he won his first? langer? ricky stuart? the didn't do it at 20, but they came into grade then.

That's not my point. I agree. I just don't see why mini Flanno is considered the heir apparent at 20, when Chad is at the perfect age to go on with at 26? Or Val or Bird in a couple of years. Mini Flanno is way behind those guys on developing as a good half. Kyle won't hit his peak for another 5-6 years, so we're just going to slot him in and wait, when we have guys who are in thier prime. We won a comp in no small part because we had one a pretty mature halves pairing, both of whom we bought basically.

Develop a half and reap the rewards later or buy one ready to go. Developing one then switching to a junior again is dumb.

 

[snowman]

Forgot McCrone

But saying dont compare him to test players but compare him to first graders? Wtf

You have to compare him to the best to realise he is low down on the pack of halves

 

[snowman]

That's not my point. I agree. I just don't see why mini Flanno is considered the heir apparent at 20, when Chad is at the perfect age to go on with at 26? Or Val or Bird in a couple of years. Mini Flanno is way behind those guys on developing as a good half. Kyle won't hit his peak for another 5-6 years, so we're just going to slot him in and wait, when we have guys who are in thier prime. We won a comp in no small part because we had one a pretty mature halves pairing, both of whom we bought basically.

Develop a half and reap the rewards later or buy one ready to go. Developing one then switching to a junior again is dumb.

What are you on about? Like really? You are talking about putting holmes at 6 when Kyle Flanno will be ready for that spot by then.

 

[CHOGM]

to show you how stupid and short sighted your are... kyle flanagan will be 22 in 2019, but lets have a look at all the halves that have won a premiership in the last 16 years

2016 - Chad Townsend - 25 in the game, 20 when he debuted
2015 - Jonathan Thurston - 32 in the game, 19 when he debuted
2014 - Adam Reynolds - 24 in the game, 22 when he debuted
2013 - Mitch Pearce - 24 in the game - 18 when he debuted
2012 - Cooper Cronk - 29 in the game, 22 when he debuted
2011 - Daly Cherry-Evans - 22 in the game, 22 when he debuted
2010 - Ben Hornby - 29 in the game, 20 when he debuted
2009 - Cooper Cronk* - 26 in the game, 22 when he debuted
2008 - Matt Orford - 30 in the game, 22 when he debuted
2007 - Cooper Cronk* - 24 in the game, 22 when he debuted
2006 - Shane Perry - 29 in the game, 22 when he debuted
2005 - Scott Prince - 25 in the game, 18 when he debuted
2004 - Brent Shewin - 26 in the game, 21 when he debuted
2003 - Craig Gower - 25 in the game, 18 when he debuted
2002 - Craig Wing - 23 in the game, 19 when he debuted
2001 - Andrew Johns - 27 in the game, 19 when he debuted
2000 - Kevin Walters - 33 in the game, 20 when he debuted

so none of these guys have been over 22, and only one of them has won it in their first year

and, in 2019 val holmes will be 24, but was 19 when he debuted, so why is it good for him, but not for an actual half in our system?

Mate we're at cross purposes. I'm not concerned with debut age. I'm concerned with peak age. My point is that by the time Kyle Flanagan debuts in first grade, Chad will be cherry ripe as a half in terms of age and development, and Val will have 3 seasons of first grade, a grand final and state of origin/ Australian selection under his belt. Bird similiar. Yet we're going to overlook them for a guy who in 2018 will be yet to make his FG debut? Kyle may develop to be the greatest halfback in the game, but that doesn't change the fact he won't be ready before other guys in our system are. That's my point.

 

[CHOGM]

What are you on about? Like really? You are talking about putting holmes at 6 when Kyle Flanno will be ready for that spot by then.

Ready? You mean never having played FG? How is that ready???

 

[CHOGM]

What are you on about? Like really? You are talking about putting holmes at 6 when Kyle Flanno will be ready for that spot by then.

Chad is an infinitely better half than Robbo, but Flanno played Robbo and let Chad go because he wasn't ready. Then he comes back and plays when he is. Flanno didn't stick with the rookie becuase in 3 years he'd be good enough, he payed the lesser guy, but the guy who was developed.

 

[BurgoShark]

Forgot McCrone

But saying dont compare him to test players but compare him to first graders? Wtf

You have to compare him to the best to realise he is low down on the pack of halves

Everyone is low down in the pack compared to Thurston, Johnson and Cronk.

 

[deano the p]

Neither Holmes or Bird are halves at this stage or look like developing into quality halves.

 

[snowman]

Ready? You mean never having played FG? How is that ready???

how do you know flanno won't have played by then?

 

[CHOGM]

how do you know flanno won't have played by then?

So they'll play him this year? Instead of last years gf winning pairing? I can't see it.

I honestly don't know the answer, obviously, but age of halves matter, and if Kyle is a half next year, then we're accepting a four to seven year wait for another title. The chooks tried to go with Rookies after they let Maloney go and that went well. This year they've go Keary, 25, and Pearce 27 (I think), and they look good.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but part of the reason you're taking a stand on this is you don't rate Chad and you do rate the rookie.

I think Chad is going to go up a level this season and next and we'd be mad to let him go.

 

[CHOGM]

Neither Holmes or Bird are halves at this stage or look like developing into quality halves.

"Don't look like developing into halves". Dude!

I'd say Nathan Brown and a million dollars a season disagrees with you on that. And I reckon he's in a better position to know.

 

[CHOGM]

I reckon Bird leaving could be good for us this year. He loves the club and seems to be good mates with Val and other blokes so I reckon he will put in hugely this year, knowing its his last at the Shire. Could help the back to back cause ironically.

 

[HaroldBishop]

I think Chad is going to go up a level this season and next and we'd be mad to let him go.

It really depends on how much he's asking for. I'm happy to keep Chad as long as we have someone like Maloney. He's never going to be the dominant half imo.

 

[deano the p]

"Don't look like developing into halves". Dude!

I'd say Nathan Brown and a million dollars a season disagrees with you on that. And I reckon he's in a better position to know.

They are playing for a bloke with freakish ability who has an unknown best position. Bird has no kicking game, is a ball hog & has limited play making ability. At this stage he hasn't shown anything that suggests he will be a gun half.

At this point the only way he becomes a gun half is if he plays in a side that doesn't need him to play as a half.

He may develop but at this stage it isn't looking likely. Backrow will end up being his best position IMO.

 

[snowman]

So they'll play him this year? Instead of last years gf winning pairing? I can't see it.

I honestly don't know the answer, obviously, but age of halves matter, and if Kyle is a half next year, then we're accepting a four to seven year wait for another title. The chooks tried to go with Rookies after they let Maloney go and that went well. This year they've go Keary, 25, and Pearce 27 (I think), and they look good.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but part of the reason you're taking a stand on this is you don't rate Chad and you do rate the rookie.

I think Chad is going to go up a level this season and next and we'd be mad to let him go.

no im taking the stand because you are talking bollocks

saying that a guy who has played his entire life as a half wont be ready in 2019 to play nrl, but suggesting holmes will because he would have had a few seasons on the wing and at fullback. FKN OK M8

i don't not like chad, but we shouldnt pay too much for him. he isn't in the top tier for half backs but wants good money. there are better options out there, and they may come from within.

it is short sighted for you to say kyle flanno cant play at 22 because he hasnt or wouldnt have played before. guess we shouldnt have given brailey a game? fkn idiot

"Don't look like developing into halves". Dude!

I'd say Nathan Brown and a million dollars a season disagrees with you on that. And I reckon he's in a better position to know.

a million dollars a year for bird doesnt make him a good 5/8, it makes nathan brown a dumb arse more than anything

 

[Thresher]

It really depends on how much he's asking for. I'm happy to keep Chad as long as we have someone like Maloney. He's never going to be the dominant half imo.

Agree HB. Chad at 500-600k would be good value for the team, 700-800k would mean that he's getting into the elite range and I don't see him as that. He's a good player but not worth that much of our cap.