A-League expansion and the Sharks

ABshark

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Bit of media talk and lots of rumours about that the FFA will look to add a new team based in Southern Sydney from 2016 onward, perhaps at the expense of the Phoenix. We've discussed it at different times before but its something that deserves its own thread.

What do people think of the Sharks being involved? What would we risk/gain? Would the FFA want us involved? Would the franchise be viable?
 

ABshark

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Why the push for a third Sydney A-League team is on the agenda

Date October 23, 2015 - 7:00PM
Michael Cockerill

Wheels within wheels. Is the prospect of a grandiose "Home of Football" project near Sydney Airport driving the push for a third Sydney team, a move that may ultimately cost Wellington Phoenix a place in the A-League?

It's been more than 12 months since David Gallop put the Phoenix publicly on notice, and matters are coming to a head. Maybe not as expected.

One of the last acts of the Frank Lowy board will be to clarify whether Wellington have a future beyond this season. At Lowy's final meeting as chairman on Monday, the Phoenix issue will be top of the agenda. Wellington want a 10-year extension of their licence, the FFA have previously offered five. But the prospect of a third Sydney team has raised the stakes. I'd put the chances of Wellington being replaced by a new Sydney team next season at 50-50.

So why has the push for a third Sydney team suddenly gathered momentum? Officially it's all about Gallop's mantra that expansion needs to be based on "fishing where the fish are". That means more capital city teams, more derbies, bigger crowds, bigger ratings. In other words, bringing the sort of numbers the Phoenix don't yet provide to the negotiations for the next broadcast deal, which could well be finalised during the course of the season.

Unofficially, though, there is another element at play. For years the FFA has dreamed of a "Home of Football" in Sydney. Now the stars have aligned for the project to possibly be realised at Barton Park, a 9.7-hectare site owned by a private investor that includes the dilapidated St George Stadium. The catch? To get a large slice of the public/private money to make the $60 million project happen, an A-League team playing out of nearby Kogarah Jubilee Stadium may have to be part of the bargain.

Why the St George area seems to have usurped Sutherland as the base for a third Sydney team is as much about the recent changes to the federal electoral boundaries as anything else. Scott Morrison's electorate of Cook has crossed the Georges River all the way north to Kogarah. One of his closest mates, the former mayor of Sutherland, Kent Johns, is rumoured to be shifting to a prominent position in the federal Liberal Party. There's a lot of clout there and it will be people like Morrison and Johns who will heavily influence whether the federal government will provide up to half the money for the project. Having an A-League team playing out of Kogarah Jubilee, sub-leasing Barton Park as a training base, will help justify the funding to their new constituents. Wheels within wheels.

Nobody is going to deny a "Home of Football", which would provide a training centre for national teams, is long overdue. There is also a credible argument that Sydney can support a third A-League team, although I'm unconvinced this is the right time. But there is a precedent. The seed money for the Wanderers also came from the federal purse via a grant for community football in western Sydney.

But if all this comes at the cost of the Phoenix, I'm out. Expansion isn't expansion if there's contraction. We need more teams, sooner rather than later. Preferably including new markets.

Dumping one of the few existing clubs who have no monetary issues is absurd timing and dumb strategy. Shrinking the footprint of the A-League may help the FFA's bottom line in the short term, but ultimately it dilutes the "whole of the game" mantra being promoted at Whitlam Square. Holding the fact that the Phoenix are Kiwis against them is an easy way out. You don't hear the same argument from netball, Super Rugby, the NRL and the NBL. So what sense is there in football severing its ties with a market of 5 million people, where more people play the game than rugby, even if it's a hard slog?

No doubt the Phoenix need to pull their finger out at the commercial end of the operation. Chairman Rob Morrison doesn't seem to get that his club is in a highly competitive entertainment industry, where getting bums on seats and better ratings requires investment in marketing and, dare we say it, high-profile players. Resurrecting the Petone stadium project wouldn't hurt either.

Morrison will present his submission for a 10-year extension to the board and he needs to have his bases covered. I'm not sure whether Lowy's mind is made up, but you'd expect the board to see the big picture rather than simply the immediate bottom line. That, after all, is their obligation.

If not, the Phoenix will effectively die on December 30 unless Morrison compromises and takes a five-year extension, assuming it's still on the table. The death of a club born out of the ashes of the Knights, when so much of the heavy lifting has now been done, would be a travesty. Even worse if it's for reasons beyond their control.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/why-the-push-for-a-third-sydney-aleague-team-is-on-the-agenda-20151022-gkgg8h.html
 

HaroldBishop

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Bit of media talk and lots of rumours about that the FFA will look to add a new team based in Southern Sydney from 2016 onward, perhaps at the expense of the Phoenix. We've discussed it at different times before but its something that deserves its own thread.

What do people think of the Sharks being involved? What would we risk/gain? Would the FFA want us involved? Would the franchise be viable?

Without giving it too much thought at this stage I would be happy for us not to be involved other than to be the the team's landlord. You would think having the ground in use all year round would increase the likelihood of future funding for upgrades, in particular more undercover seating.
 
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Makes me wonder if Lyall was given an indication some time back this could be a goer in the future, hence why he seen the Sharks as a attractive choice of employment where he could oversee a potential sporting powerhouse organization?
 
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Would be great to have a team based in the shire or even st george area but wouldn't want the sharks and a southern sydney team being connected in any way, other than the ground they play at.
 

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A-League push gathers pace

By Andrew Parkinson

Oct. 27, 2015, 5:40 a.m.





  • r0_123_4250_2597_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg
New ball game: Sutherland Shire Football Association general manager Jeff Stewart, Sutherland Shire mayor Carmelo Pesce, St George Football Association executive director Sok Mallios and Sutherland Shire Football Association treasurer Giulio di Stefano with players from Lilli Pilli, Caringbah Redbacks and Miranda Magpies. Picture: Chris Lane

SUTHERLAND Shire could be the home of a new A-League franchise representing Sutherland, St George and the South Coast as early as next season.
There are also ambitious plans for a football school of excellence in the shire to help nurture young players and create a production line of talented players for future A-League teams.

As reported by Fairfax Media last week, several meetings have taken place in recent weeks between Football Federation Australia (FFA), Sutherland Shire Council, NRL club Cronulla Sharks and Sutherland Shire Football Association.
The association is the largest in NSW and potentially Australia, with several players already representing the shire in the A-League, national youth teams and overseas.
A Sutherland-based club would play the majority of its home games at Remondis Stadium, Woolooware, with games also played at Jubilee Oval, Carlton, and WIN Stadium, Wollongong.
The club would be built from the grassroots up, with community consultation and input directly assisting in the make-up of the club’s colours, name and logo, much like the successful FFA plan to create the Western Sydney Wanderers franchise three years ago.

Sutherland Shire Football Association general manager Jeff Stewart said it was exciting news for the area.
‘‘It’s phenomenal. In Sutherland you’ve got the biggest [football] association in this country,’’ he said.
‘‘Add to that Football South Coast, [which] has so many passionate footballers similar to ourselves and the St George area, which is one of the homes of football in this country.




‘‘You’ve got everything there, there’s the appetite for it.
‘‘The question is, how do you build it from the grassroots and give the community a grassroots-based A-League club.’’
Stewart said there had been discussions between the FFA and football associations representing the shire, St George and South Coast, along with Sutherland Shire, Wollongong and some St George-based councils to discuss the potential plan
.
The FFA is actively researching three markets for a potential new club franchise
A second Brisbane team and a third in Melbourne are among the options.

http://www.theleader.com.au/story/3447871/a-league-push-gathers-pace/?cs=1633

This from todays Leader. Would be a great move for the Shire and the Sharks.

 

ABshark

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Without giving it too much thought at this stage I would be happy for us not to be involved other than to be the the team's landlord. You would think having the ground in use all year round would increase the likelihood of future funding for upgrades, in particular more undercover seating.

Getting involved in running or part owning the thing would be taking on a significant risk. Soccer franchises in this country seem to fall over with regularity.

At the same time I can't help but think that this is an opportunity to change the nature of the Club for the foreseeable future - like the development.

Its complicated and the sort of thing that requires some really solid modelling which is impossible for us plebs to do without seeing the books. For instance, what's our break even figure on opening the Stadium? Would a new A-League franchise attract enough fans each week? (it might attract more than the Sharks tbh).

But there are obvious opportunities. The state of the Stadium is IMO the biggest challenge for us in the medium to long term and this would give us great leverage to get it reno'd/rebuilt as Parra and the Wanderers have managed (being a more marginal electorate wouldn't hurt either).

If we were part-owners/managers you could spread the costs of running an elite sporting organisation across double the number of players. So your medical/insurance/sports science etc costs would improve. Then obviously you have the opportunity to sell ticket and sponsorship packages for year round events. I suppose some of those benefits could be reaped without a financial stake.

That said, I don't see the FFA being keen to have an NRL Club owning one of its franchises. It didn't want to sell the Wanderers to Penrith and they've got significantly more financial clout than we do.

Makes me wonder if Lyall was given an indication some time back this could be a goer in the future, hence why he seen the Sharks as a attractive choice of employment where he could oversee a potential sporting powerhouse organization?

I have thought this for a while. After all, he was the head of the A-League for a period. He would have seen/know all the options they have on the table.

Conversely, would we be even mentioned or considered as a ground share option or part owner without him being our CEO? Probably not for the Stadium, definitely not for any ownership role.

The other question is whether this tantalising prospect might be so tantalising that he decides that he's more interested in it than running us. I would be shocked if he hasn't already been offered the job.
 

Littleshark

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I am personally quite excited about the possibility of an a-league franchise operating out of Remondis.

I think it's a shame that it would be at the expense of Wellington as I like them and have some great memories of Nix games in Sydney. However I do think it is the right move to leave them out of the a-league in the future. Indeed I hope they can keep playing as an entity in NZ and help grow the game there.

I do not believe people should see the downfall of A-league clubs as a reason not to take the risk of running one here. Each of the clubs that have issues are those that were setup in areas that have always been problematic for football and in Gold Coasts case any sport.

While it would certainly make a little sense to have any new franchise being operated as a joint-venture with the Sharks, I do hope that this doesn't eventuate just to give the Sharks some protection just in case. It certainly would be great to have Remondis being used year round and I would certainly get involved with a Stadium membership type deal.

I can't help but wonder if it isn't Wollongong's turn to have a go first though.
 

snowman

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I'd be going with the Endeavour name, on the basis that "Southern" or "South" isolates one region

Endeavour would branch it out, think about it, it would cover:

- Botany
- Mascot
- St Peters
- Rockdale
- Brighton
- Taren Point
- Miranda
- Cronulla
- Sutho
- Menai
- Bangor
- Penshurst
- Peakhurst
- Helensburg
- Illawarra

and could branch to nowra

I also missed a lot of places, but the naming would be crucial for the areas you want to target

also, if the franchise will be playing games out of Kogarah i dont think the "South/Southern" reference fits in with it

i like the idea, but i also feel that the a league needs a NZ team to be in the competition so they need to find a way to make that work

I also dont want the sharks name involved, and i am glad that they wont be able to have the pro dominant sky blue colour
 

Littleshark

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I also dont want the sharks name involved, and i am glad that they wont be able to have the pro dominant sky blue colour

Agree with you on this, I also think not being called the Sharks would help build supporters. Don't think Dragons supporters would be interested in an HAL club named after their enemies.
 

snowman

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Agree with you on this, I also think not being called the Sharks would help build supporters. Don't think Dragons supporters would be interested in an HAL club named after their enemies.

thats exactly it, its a target audience

the illawarra and kogarah wont get involved with a sharks team, and it would ultimately die

they need to ensure that however many games are played in each of the 3 stadiums are jam packed with supporters
 

Jaz

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I don't think 'Southern' isolates one location. If they were Southern Sydney, yes, but Southern no. The trick is to strike the balance between meaning and ambiguity. The Southern Strikers (or whatever) could incorporate everywhere between Kogarah and Nowra.

And yeah, they won't touch Endeavour. It's too tainted.
 

ABshark

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How many games does each A-League side play each season? Its about 25 isn't it (before finals/ACL etc)?

If so, we could easily see twice the number of days the Stadium is in use. That would mean a big improvement in costs + sponsorship rights + money through Sharkies.
 

ABshark

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I don't think 'Southern' isolates one location. If they were Southern Sydney, yes, but Southern no. The trick is to strike the balance between meaning and ambiguity. The Southern Strikers (or whatever) could incorporate everywhere between Kogarah and Nowra.

And yeah, they won't touch Endeavour. It's too tainted.

You're right. I like Southern - captures both southern Sydney, the south coast and even the southern highlands.
 

HaroldBishop

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How many games does each A-League side play each season? Its about 25 isn't it (before finals/ACL etc)?

If so, we could easily see twice the number of days the Stadium is in use. That would mean a big improvement in costs + sponsorship rights + money through Sharkies.

I just wonder if sharing games between venues dilutes the supporter base to a certain degree? Would they be better off just picking a home ground and sticking with it?

If the NRL persists with its stadium policy I doubt the FFA would see value in playing 6 games per year (or whatever number you want to use) at Remondis, Kogarah or WIN if there's a chance there's no NRL team playing there for much longer, meaning funding would completely dry up. If a new team in southern Sydney is launched I think they'll play a minimum of 10 games at the one venue.
 

HaroldBishop

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I don't think 'Southern' isolates one location. If they were Southern Sydney, yes, but Southern no. The trick is to strike the balance between meaning and ambiguity. The Southern Strikers (or whatever) could incorporate everywhere between Kogarah and Nowra.

And yeah, they won't touch Endeavour. It's too tainted.

Agree. I'd be very surprised if they don't use Southern especially given the Wanderers early success in drawing support.
 

Littleshark

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I don't think 'Southern' isolates one location. If they were Southern Sydney, yes, but Southern no. The trick is to strike the balance between meaning and ambiguity. The Southern Strikers (or whatever) could incorporate everywhere between Kogarah and Nowra.

And yeah, they won't touch Endeavour. It's too tainted.
Can't be the strikers, Brisbane's 2nd team needs that name
 

ABshark

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I just wonder if sharing games between venues dilutes the supporter base to a certain degree? Would they be better off just picking a home ground and sticking with it?

If the NRL persists with its stadium policy I doubt the FFA would see value in playing 6 games per year (or whatever number you want to use) at Remondis, Kogarah or WIN if there's a chance there's no NRL team playing there for much longer, meaning funding would completely dry up. If a new team in southern Sydney is launched I think they'll play a minimum of 10 games at the one venue.

I didn't suggest that they'd move games? (Though I'm be very surprised if Wollongong didn't get some games)

We need to do everything within our power to make Remondis the home ground. I think everyone can agree on that.
 

Littleshark

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If the NRL persists with its stadium policy I doubt the FFA would see value in playing 6 games per year (or whatever number you want to use) at Remondis, Kogarah or WIN if there's a chance there's no NRL team playing there for much longer, meaning funding would completely dry up. If a new team in southern Sydney is launched I think they'll play a minimum of 10 games at the one venue.

I don't like the idea of a team playing out of more than 1 stadium. I think it would reduce the number of season ticket holders and ruin any chance of Wollongong getting a team outright in the future (which they deserve)
 

snowman

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How many games does each A-League side play each season? Its about 25 isn't it (before finals/ACL etc)?

If so, we could easily see twice the number of days the Stadium is in use. That would mean a big improvement in costs + sponsorship rights + money through Sharkies.

thats the big one right there AB

game days, you get 12k at a soccer game on average, and then away games

not everyone will travel to perth but the staunch shire based supporters might head down to the club for cheap beers

there is a pub in penrith that does $4 beers until the first goal is scored on wanderers game day
 
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