2023 NRL Round 3 Cronulla Sutherland Sharks vs. Canberra Raiders @ GIO Stadium Sunday 19th March @ 6:15pm

HaroldBishop

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Soward defended there and that team won a comp

Or alternatively he is dropped altogether

Or we keep complaining about how he can't defend in the halves and Talakai can't defend in the centres

Ideally Fitz & staff do their job - he said he would get it sorted after the Parra game...
If he can't defend in position....then yep.
 

Gards

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If he can't defend in position....then yep.

He's no prime Jamie Soward exactly is he

Part of every rugby league players role and position is making tackles when required but there are always going to be some misses or tries would never be scored.

But most halves need help with it and ideally we aren't left in a position where Moylan is 1 on 1 with a front rower isolated on his own try line OR misreading the play entirely

Him & Talakai need to sort it out or someone will be forced to sort them out although sometimes the trouble starts with Brailz and Teig

Jesse & Katoa used to be shocking defensively together just over a season ago but they improved
 
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bort

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I know we want our team to do better and happy for other teams to suck and I fully support that concept.
Last weekend we scored four tries down edges, Raiders scored two down the middle and one down each edge.

Against Eels we scored on (or because of) edge five times
They scored through or because of the middle three times (two from deep), on Katoa side twice

Moylan's edge is not some insane glaring defensive deficiency. It's not a defensive strength for sure, but it's our whole goal line that isn't good I'd say.
 

Wiz

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Soward defended there and that team won a comp

Or alternatively he is dropped altogether

Or we keep complaining about how he can't defend in the halves and Talakai can't defend in the centres

Ideally Fitz & staff do their job - he said he would get it sorted after the Parra game... or was that Souths game? We have been defensively feeble for so long now I can't remember when the coach started talking about needing to talk about it
Is it like what 5 games in a row now we have had at least 24 points put on us ?
 

Wiz

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I know we want our team to do better and happy for other teams to suck and I fully support that concept.
Last weekend we scored four tries down edges, Raiders scored two down the middle and one down each edge.

Against Eels we scored on (or because of) edge five times
They scored through or because of the middle three times (two from deep), on Katoa side twice

Moylan's edge is not some insane glaring defensive deficiency. It's not a defensive strength for sure, but it's our whole goal line that isn't good I'd say.
That edge is leaking points like no tomorrow

I love how you’ve left out the rabbits game as part of your stats
 

Gards

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Is it like what 5 games in a row now we have had at least 24 points put on us ?

I wouldn't be as concerned if they were well constructed tries but alot of them have been simple forward barge overs from close to the line with alot of indecision in our defensive line or poor first/second/third contact

Yea we have put alot of similar tries on oppositions through Nikora and Wilton but I want us to be better than that and not be a middling team that loses as many as it wins - actually our tries have been better with a better pass from our half and a better line run from our forward - not so much crash plays or barge overs.

I swear our middle and edge defense is giving me John Morris / Josh Hannay PTSD it has been that weak and ineffective at holding out the ball carrier which combined with our slow line speed, shocking discipline and ball handling is a recipe for disaster.

We have also conceded some fairly soft tries out wide while alot of our own tries out wide have been worked with a large degree of skill +/ luck

It's no wonder having 24 points put on us is becoming the norm and it's not like we will score 24+ points ourselves every game

About the only thing we are defending well seems to be kicks which used to be a big weakness haha

It's great we can attack, credit where it's due for that but it's only 1 part of being a consistent successful team - especially as other teams step up.
 
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That edge is leaking points like no tomorrow

I love how you’ve left out the rabbits game as part of your stats
I think Bort's point still stands. That's 5 tries left, 5 middle and 3 right. Whilst I agree visually that left edge look like they have no idea together, those stats suggest we suck pretty equally everywhere.
 

Super Impose

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I wouldn't be as concerned if they were well constructed tries but alot of them have been simple forward barge overs from close to the line with alot of indecision in our defensive line or poor first/second/third contact

Yea we have put alot of similar tries on oppositions through Nikora and Wilton but I want us to be better than that and not be a middling team that loses as many as it wins - actually our tries have been better with a better pass from our half and a better line run from our forward - not so much crash plays or barge overs.

I swear our middle and edge defense is giving me John Morris / Josh Hannay PTSD it has been that weak and ineffective at holding out the ball carrier which combined with our slow line speed, shocking discipline and ball handling is a recipe for disaster.

We have also conceded some fairly soft tries out wide while alot of our own tries out wide have been worked with a large degree of skill +/ luck

It's no wonder having 24 points put on us is becoming the norm and it's not like we will score 24+ points ourselves every game

About the only thing we are defending well seems to be kicks which used to be a big weakness haha

It's great we can attack, credit where it's due for that but it's only 1 part of being a consistent successful team - especially as other teams step up.
Yeah I can live with the well constructed tries against us - where numbers come into play .

It’s the bloody soft barge overs that have crept in against us that drives me mad - and I’m sure all of us.

Not acceptable ..
 

Wiz

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I think Bort's point still stands. That's 5 tries left, 5 middle and 3 right. Whilst I agree visually that left edge look like they have no idea together, those stats suggest we suck pretty equally everywhere.
That’s also very Fair ; just feel like it doesn’t take much for a team to score a try when they target that edge

The edge is a smaller corridor compared to the middle
 
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That’s also very Fair ; just feel like it doesn’t take much for a team to score a try when they target that edge

The edge is a smaller corridor compared to the middle
I'd consider them the same size corridor? Wing, centre, half and edge back rower v two props a lock and a hooker.
 

bort

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I think Bort's point still stands. That's 5 tries left, 5 middle and 3 right. Whilst I agree visually that left edge look like they have no idea together, those stats suggest we suck pretty equally everywhere.
I didn't bother with the rabbitohs game as I had previously acknowledged the Moylan/Talakai/Ronaldo edge had sucked in that game.
I don't think anybody wasn't aware of that.

Was just using the more recent two games to point out it wasn't nearly as persistently bad since as the convo was making it out to be.
Not like we leaked 3-4 tries a game through that edge.

I acknowledge work is needed, but as I said in my other post, it is needed across the board even if that edge looked astonishingly bad in game 1.

Interesting that when you have accounted for the rabbitohs game it shows left and middle as even.
Being split three times in one game by Hopgood offloads, and twice by Starling giving good passes to Horse is just as concerning as the edge. Throw in Ilias having the game of his life (outsmarting Ronnie, outmuscling Teig, scoring himself, perfect pass selection for three more easy one on one tries) and we have pretty much been victimised multiple times, in the same game by the same thing, but what that thing was has been different across the three games.

One thing I will note on some of the edge ones, Kennedy is often like 1m short of being able to get across in time to help. Wonder if we would lose any kick/inside ball defence to have him push across field a bit harder.
 

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Moylan defended on the wing for the odd play on the weekend already.
Lots of halves defend on the wing from kick-offs (like Moylan) or when the opposition is in their own half (like Soward used to). It stops teams targeting them with kick returns or on early tackles. They tend to make their way back in over the next few tackles or when the ball gets to a certain place on the field.

Having a half on the wing full time would be a horrible idea, and even moreso for Moylan. He might do less tackling but he'd have to do more running, defuse kicks, and get bashed by 3+ players on kick returns. If I'm the opposition coach, do you reckon I'm bombing Katoa or sending it down to Moylan with one bloke competing for the ball and a couple of 105kg+ forwards aiming in on his ribcage?

As for the Cronk one, it was fantastic work by everyone involved, but it worked for one game, and would only have worked for one game. Once a team had a chance to study video and figure out how to get to him, Cronk would have been dead meat.
 

bort

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Lots of halves defend on the wing from kick-offs (like Moylan) or when the opposition is in their own half (like Soward used to). It stops teams targeting them with kick returns or on early tackles. They tend to make their way back in over the next few tackles or when the ball gets to a certain place on the field.

Having a half on the wing full time would be a horrible idea, and even moreso for Moylan. He might do less tackling but he'd have to do more running, defuse kicks, and get bashed by 3+ players on kick returns. If I'm the opposition coach, do you reckon I'm bombing Katoa or sending it down to Moylan with one bloke competing for the ball and a couple of 105kg+ forwards aiming in on his ribcage?

As for the Cronk one, it was fantastic work by everyone involved, but it worked for one game, and would only have worked for one game. Once a team had a chance to study video and figure out how to get to him, Cronk would have been dead meat.

To be fair if Moylan is standing on the wing that doesn't prevent it being Ronaldo standing one spot in who runs back for the kick while Moylan tightens up. It's not a rule of the game that only the widest defender can drop.
Elevated risk of Ronnie being caught up in something else but you often wouldn't drop the winger on a short side if the centre is caught up anyway. Probably end up in some spots where Moylan might need to drop back but I reckon you could get Ronnie back there most of the time.

Not suggesting we do defend Moylan on the wing 100% of the time, just reckon if we did we could pretty easily keep him from taking too many kicks. Could be wrong though, never tried to use anyone from the line other than the winger to defend kicks.
 

bort

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Or just do what @Born&bred has been advocating for years and play him at fullback.
Commentator: "And we are underway! The Sharks are receiving the kick off and... oh no what's this we have a Shark injured, he pulled up like he was shot, grasping the hamstring - it's Matt Moylan!"
 

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We had Preston Campbell defending on the wing for a while when he was making the transition to the halves, but he'd been a winger before that anyway.
 

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Just a thought (probably a **** one)....is there or would there be any benefit in swapping ramien and talakai. or wilton and nikora to strengthen the left? ramien being a stronger defender than talakai and likewise nikora...
 
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Just a thought (probably a **** one)....is there or would there be any benefit in swapping ramien and talakai. or wilton and nikora to strengthen the left? ramien being a stronger defender than talakai and likewise nikora...
I think the only two that are really interchangeable are the wingers, and Ronnie is the stronger defender of the two.
 
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