2023 NRL Round 3 Cronulla Sutherland Sharks vs. Canberra Raiders @ GIO Stadium Sunday 19th March @ 6:15pm

snowman

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So the solution to fixing the defensive issues on the left edge is to remove the best defender from that edge and replace him with a turnstile?
i was at the nsw cup game yesterday, and iro got ran through like he was in a porno

bloke cannot defend to save himself, or the try line
 

Milkshark

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yeh, talakai is a much better defender, doesnt get run through and has to compensate for moylan
Yeah Talakai is better, but the Talaki / Moylan combo is going to be leak points all year.
 

bort

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Teams attack inside to out, so we defend inside to out. If Talakai starts going outside to in just to help Moylan then it will be Ronnie vs two (maybe 3) regularly and we will leak just as many points).

More effort from the inside defenders is more likely to benefit than swapping Talakai to a worse defender.
 

Sharkfox

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So the solution to fixing the defensive issues on the left edge is to remove the best defender from that edge and replace him with a turnstile?
Talakai has defensive issues also when it comes to speed and reads. But i would rather have him getting the ball more and running lines off Moylan like nikora runs on the right edge. He'd be more effective in offense and defense, you get him to terrorise the half back and wear him down, instead of hanging out on the left edge
 

Sharkfox

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If not iro, how about Tracey or Atkinson at left centre. Give one of them the position and not move them around.

Talakai to back row is just moving him in more closer to the action where he's more involved, its not like hes being dropped 😅 the guy could be an enforcer there.
i was at the nsw cup game yesterday, and iro got ran through like he was in a porno

bloke cannot defend to save himself, or the try line
 

HaroldBishop

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If not iro, how about Tracey or Atkinson at left centre. Give one of them the position and not move them around.

Talakai to back row is just moving him in more closer to the action where he's more involved, its not like hes being dropped 😅 the guy could be an enforcer there.
Don't know about Atkinson but Tracey sucks in the centres.
 

bort

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Talakai has defensive issues also when it comes to speed and reads. But i would rather have him getting the ball more and running lines off Moylan like nikora runs on the right edge. He'd be more effective in offense and defense, you get him to terrorise the half back and wear him down, instead of hanging out on the left edge
But centre can be one of the hardest positions to defend. IMO he wasn't to blame for any of the weekends tries.

If not iro, how about Tracey or Atkinson at left centre. Give one of them the position and not move them around.

Talakai to back row is just moving him in more closer to the action where he's more involved, its not like hes being dropped 😅 the guy could be an enforcer there.
We're benching one of our better performers (Wilton) to hope that another good performer can perform even better there while someone outside the best 17 hopefully comes in and outplays both.

I know they are stats so mean absolutely nothing and can't possibly be useful without considering every single possible context but last season Talakai was 1st for run meters from centre, 5th for average try involvements, and outside the top 60* for average try causes. He is doing good work there and I personally don't think it is worth taking Wilton out of the 13 just to move Talakai one spot in and hope someone else is an even better centre.

*cbf adjusting for people who aren't actually centres or played a meaningless amount of games, but he was attributed 5 try causes last season.
 

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But centre can be one of the hardest positions to defend. IMO he wasn't to blame for any of the weekends tries.

I don't think I'm blaming Talakai for any of the tries... but the way he's playing in defence is definitely not helping Moylan. Game plan? Rogue agent? Only Fitz and Sifa knows.
 

bort

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I don't think I'm blaming Talakai for any of the tries... but the way he's playing in defence is definitely not helping Moylan. Game plan? Rogue agent? Only Fitz and Sifa knows.
I’d guess game plan given he tends to be sliding away from Moylan, with opposition play going from inside to out.

Other than correctly reading to come off his man and jam in on runner at Moylan the only other thing we could really do is work with Kennedy that it is his job to slide out to take their centre with Talakai leaving them to assist Moylan. Burgo you got any other ideas how to structure defence to regularly allow the centre and 5/8 to mark one player and not leave consistent numbers issue out wide?

Variant of the above is he shoots out at the three man which hopefully forces them to make a decision deeper and allows Moylan/Kennedy to push out if the ball keeps moving
 

Sparkles

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I’d guess game plan given he tends to be sliding away from Moylan, with opposition play going from inside to out.

Other than correctly reading to come off his man and jam in on runner at Moylan the only other thing we could really do is work with Kennedy that it is his job to slide out to take their centre with Talakai leaving them to assist Moylan. Burgo you got any other ideas how to structure defence to regularly allow the centre and 5/8 to mark one player and not leave consistent numbers issue out wide?

Variant of the above is he shoots out at the three man which hopefully forces them to make a decision deeper and allows Moylan/Kennedy to push out if the ball keeps moving
Maybe our defence isn't so much wrong as it's predictable? We had issues in attack because it was known that we looove our second rowers, but we changed things up to good effect against the Eels and Raiders (less good effect against the Raiders...)
 

Sharkfox

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But centre can be one of the hardest positions to defend. IMO he wasn't to blame for any of the weekends tries.


We're benching one of our better performers (Wilton) to hope that another good performer can perform even better there while someone outside the best 17 hopefully comes in and outplays both.

I know they are stats so mean absolutely nothing and can't possibly be useful without considering every single possible context but last season Talakai was 1st for run meters from centre, 5th for average try involvements, and outside the top 60* for average try causes. He is doing good work there and I personally don't think it is worth taking Wilton out of the 13 just to move Talakai one spot in and hope someone else is an even better centre.

*cbf adjusting for people who aren't actually centres or played a meaningless amount of games, but he was attributed 5 try causes last season.
He's a good centre, but i think he goes next level in his game playing backrow and being involved more. He got picked for the blues not because he's a centre, they wanted to use him as an attacking weapon in the forwards.

Wilton is going good, but Talakai running those lines is more of a threat, harder to stop or put down, can pass or offload and draws in more defenders. Our bench of middles are not fit or big minute players, someone
like Wilton with Mcinnis coming on, are more mobile and can do more work in the middle. We have Kaufusi who hasnt played big minutes, Hunt Uele Williams all coming back from injuries who cant play big minutes, and then Wade will return from suspension. Half our forward pack isnt fit, cant fill the bench with them
 

Wiz

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Sure Talakai could’ve helped Moylan for that try on the weekend but realistically if Moylan can’t handle one on one contact on the line we are fkd ! It’s been more than a couple times this year in just 3 rounds

That also means Nikora and Sifa will have two jobs to do (cover Moylan and their role)
 

Wiz

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He's a good centre, but i think he goes next level in his game playing backrow and being involved more. He got picked for the blues not because he's a centre, they wanted to use him as an attacking weapon in the forwards.

Wilton is going good, but Talakai running those lines is more of a threat, harder to stop or put down, can pass or offload and draws in more defenders. Our bench of middles are not fit or big minute players, someone
like Wilton with Mcinnis coming on, are more mobile and can do more work in the middle. We have Kaufusi who hasnt played big minutes, Hunt Uele Williams all coming back from injuries who cant play big minutes, and then Wade will return from suspension. Half our forward pack isnt fit, cant fill the bench with them
And who are you playing at centre ?
 

snowman

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Sure Talakai could’ve helped Moylan for that try on the weekend but realistically if Moylan can’t handle one on one contact on the line we are fkd ! It’s been more than a couple times this year in just 3 rounds

That also means Nikora and Sifa will have two jobs to do (cover Moylan and their role)
nikora is on the other side of the field
 

Sharkfox

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And who are you playing at centre ?
I originally went Iro, but everyone saying he's not good defensively or ready right now, and Tracey is hot and cold. So i'll go with the unknown and say Atkinson. Played well at left centre for Italy in world cup. Good perfomance in the trials also, would love to see him in top grade and see what he can do, has good energy and intensity, puts in work. Give him left centre or dummy half off the bench
 

snowman

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I originally went Iro, but everyone saying he's not good defensively or ready right now, and Tracey is hot and cold. So i'll go with the unknown and say Atkinson. Played well at left centre for Italy in world cup. Good perfomance in the trials also, would love to see him in top grade and see what he can do, has good energy and intensity, puts in work. Give him left centre or dummy half off the bench
if we are moving sifa then blow the entire side up and go ronnie at centre and stonestreet on the wing
 
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