(Archived) THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

HaroldBishop · Nov 2, 2015

Chad said:
Here is a text conversation I just had with a work colleague about our recent signing. Points to keep in mind is that he's a Bulldog supporter so they're always grumpy and he used to play reserve grade for Penrith back in the mid 90s. He actually sat on the bench for the Western Reds in the Super League era. I've called him BS - short for Bulldog Supporter.

Me: We just signed Joseph Paulo from the Eels. Good ball player but I get the feeling he's a bit on the lazy side.
BS: Jesus Christ that's a terrible, terrible, terrible decision. He's as lazy as I have seen in defence and is mistake riddled.
Me: Wow, three terribles. Must be terrible then.
BS: I really can't stand Rugby League anymore. When I see blokes like him playing in the back row it makes me wish I was born 15 years later. He is just crap beyond words.
Me: He's supposed to be 106kg. Doesn't look anywhere near that.
BS: I just can't believe that Cronulla would find any need for him in their top 25. I hope they paid minimum wage for him. Anything more is a total waste of time, money and effort.

I'd be grumpy too if my team got rid of Ennis to sign Lichaa.

ABshark · Nov 2, 2015

slide rule said:
That really isn't straight forward at all though. It's very subjective. The improvement that each player can make to the code could be placed along a scale from "a lot" to "none". But there is no clearly defined point where a player will significantly improve the value of the code as a whole. If we all sat here and tried to rank a list of players from 1 to 100, we would all have a totally different list. As would every expert in the game.

Which is why it would be at the discretion of the NRL boss. I imagine the judgement would be made less on their on field contribution and more on their marketing/promotional pull... which the marketers and bean counters have some sort of 'measure' for no doubt. IIRC they've already research on the main players' 'worth' to the code.

ABshark · Nov 2, 2015

BS is talking plenty of BS.

BlackWhiteBlue · Nov 2, 2015

Think BS holds a bit of resentment for his failed career

sharks2010 · Nov 2, 2015

Chad said:
Here is a text conversation I just had with a work colleague about our recent signing. Points to keep in mind is that he's a Bulldog supporter so they're always grumpy and he used to play reserve grade for Penrith back in the mid 90s. He actually sat on the bench for the Western Reds in the Super League era. I've called him BS - short for Bulldog Supporter.

Me: We just signed Joseph Paulo from the Eels. Good ball player but I get the feeling he's a bit on the lazy side.
BS: Jesus Christ that's a terrible, terrible, terrible decision. He's as lazy as I have seen in defence and is mistake riddled.
Me: Wow, three terribles. Must be terrible then.
BS: I really can't stand Rugby League anymore. When I see blokes like him playing in the back row it makes me wish I was born 15 years later. He is just crap beyond words.
Me: He's supposed to be 106kg. Doesn't look anywhere near that.
BS: I just can't believe that Cronulla would find any need for him in their top 25. I hope they paid minimum wage for him. Anything more is a total waste of time, money and effort.

parra fans are always whinging about him. They are happy to see the back of him

slide rule · Nov 2, 2015

ABshark said:
Which is why it would be at the discretion of the NRL boss. I imagine the judgement would be made less on their on field contribution and more on their marketing/promotional pull... which the marketers and bean counters have some sort of 'measure' for no doubt. IIRC they've already research on the main players' 'worth' to the code.

That's still very subjective though and it's probably worse if it's judged by a bean counter. Do we sign James O'Connor because he's pretty and will bring the ladies in? What about that honey badger guy? He's a hoot. He'd be a good laugh on the footy show. What about someone like Beau Ryan (when he was playing)? He was probably worth a bit to the NRL. People who don't like Rugby League watch the Footy Show for him (not sure why). If he wanted to go to Union would he get the hand out?

ABshark · Nov 2, 2015

slide rule said:
That's still very subjective though and it's probably worse if it's judged by a bean counter. Do we sign James O'Connor because he's pretty and will bring the ladies in? What about that honey badger guy? He's a hoot. He'd be a good laugh on the footy show. What about someone like Beau Ryan (when he was playing)? He was probably worth a bit to the NRL. People who don't like Rugby League watch the Footy Show for him (not sure why). If he wanted to go to Union would he get the hand out?

They're all small fry. The big ones are pretty obvious. Again, its the NRL's discretion. They're paid to make decisions that are in the best interest of the game. This is one of those decisions.

slide rule · Nov 2, 2015

ABshark said:
They're all small fry. The big ones are pretty obvious. Again, its the NRL's discretion. They're paid to make decisions that are in the best interest of the game. This is one of those decisions.

They are paid to make decisions yes, but it doesn't mean that they get them right.

This whole thing is open to rorting.

It's an absolutely shocking idea.

Great_White_Shark · Nov 2, 2015

Johnny Morris to coach Holden Cup for 2016

Good on him

samshark · Nov 2, 2015

snowman said:
riccio just tweeted we are signing joseph paulo

good mate of wade grahams

Is he the ball playing one or the big hard running fugger.
either or, great signing

samshark · Nov 2, 2015

If theres one thing our club seems to be pretty good at is getting forwards with ability to play good football.

sharks2010 · Nov 2, 2015

samshark said:
Is he the ball playing one or the big hard running fugger.
either or, great signing

the ball playing one. The big hard running fugger is what we really needed

Bundy Shark · Nov 2, 2015

He (Paulo) shows glimpses of class but can also throw in some absolute horrible games or moments as well, imo, he isn't really a like for like replacement for Arona, different styles of players.

Paulo is going to give us more brilliant moments than Arona but with Arona you will get more consistency on a game by game basis but not likely to ever pull off a big play for you.

Depends on how Flano sees Paulo & where he is on the pecking order in our 25.

I can see the argument that there is possible upside to Paulo where any coach would fancy there chances on unlocking the talent & getting him to play like that on a consistent basis but if he is a player ranked 19,20-25 in our pecking order you could argue that someone like Arona is what we needed for top 25 roster filler, someone that can come in, do a job for 8 or so games a year & be used up to 20-25 minutes in those games.

Riverside MF · Nov 2, 2015

Flanno probably sees Paulo as a prop.
The only forward allowed to ball play in this team is Gal.

Jokes aside, good depth signing.
Sorta the cheaper, lighter Feliti Mateo.

Both can catch a bad case of the dropsies

Proud Shark · Nov 2, 2015

ABshark said:
Yeah I get where you and others are coming from. I don't really have time to go into it today (wrote about it here when they introduced it and I don't think many agreed with me then either) hence the short and slightly provocative post. But quickly (IMO):

- This discretionary fund is not about the cap but about competing with money from outside the code (i.e. union and maybe NFL)
- In the example mentioned above, Burgess get an offer from Bath RU or whoever of $1.3m
- NRL Clubs make their offers to Burgess - everyone can have a dip
- Whoever makes the highest bid without assistance - say its $1.1m from Penrith - sets the mark for the level of NRL topup which in that case would be $200k
- Now Burgess can choose between Souths' offer of $1m + the NRL's $200k = $1.2m and Penrith's offer of $1.1m + $200k = $1.3m.
- Assume he chooses Souths. They've got him for less that what Penrith offered but that's normal - happens all the time. They didn't get him because of any advantage - everyone had access to the $200k topup. The NRL essentially pay him an appearance fee to play in their league.

I get what you're saying, and understand that in this way each team has fair access to using the fund before the player signs, but my point is what happens after.

Say us and the rabbits have 2 mill cap space each and both bid for Sam Burgess. We both lay out 1.2 mil to try get him and the nrl chip in 300k because his asking price is higher. He goes to south's, then a week later DCE comes on the market and we sign him for 1.5 mil a season.
Then say fifitas contact us up, and we offer him the remaining 500k we have, and south's offer him their remaining 700k and we lose him.

Essentially what we are left with is 2 clubs, with 2 players of the same value, however south's benefit as 300k of SB's contact is excempt from the cap. Therefore giving them an advantage in further player negotiations as they have more room to move within the cap.

Honey Badger · Nov 3, 2015

Chad said:
Here is a text conversation I just had with a work colleague about our recent signing. Points to keep in mind is that he's a Bulldog supporter so they're always grumpy and he used to play reserve grade for Penrith back in the mid 90s. He actually sat on the bench for the Western Reds in the Super League era. I've called him BS - short for Bulldog Supporter.

Me: We just signed Joseph Paulo from the Eels. Good ball player but I get the feeling he's a bit on the lazy side.
BS: Jesus Christ that's a terrible, terrible, terrible decision. He's as lazy as I have seen in defence and is mistake riddled.
Me: Wow, three terribles. Must be terrible then.
BS: I really can't stand Rugby League anymore. When I see blokes like him playing in the back row it makes me wish I was born 15 years later. He is just crap beyond words.
Me: He's supposed to be 106kg. Doesn't look anywhere near that.
BS: I just can't believe that Cronulla would find any need for him in their top 25. I hope they paid minimum wage for him. Anything more is a total waste of time, money and effort.

Your mate clearly knows the facts and is a good judge.

Honey Badger · Nov 3, 2015

Bundy Shark said:
He (Paulo) shows glimpses of class but can also throw in some absolute horrible games or moments as well, imo, he isn't really a like for like replacement for Arona, different styles of players.

Paulo is going to give us more brilliant moments than Arona but with Arona you will get more consistency on a game by game basis but not likely to ever pull off a big play for you.

Depends on how Flano sees Paulo & where he is on the pecking order in our 25.

I can see the argument that there is possible upside to Paulo where any coach would fancy there chances on unlocking the talent & getting him to play like that on a consistent basis but if he is a player ranked 19,20-25 in our pecking order you could argue that someone like Arona is what we needed for top 25 roster filler, someone that can come in, do a job for 8 or so games a year & be used up to 20-25 minutes in those games.

Hi Bundy, some fair observations there mate but just on a few of your points.

Using the word 'brilliant' and Joe Paulo in the same sentence is a serious stretch of the imagination, i havnt seen a brilliant moment from Joe EVER, not at the Panthers or Eels.
Paulo will give you zero brilliant moments.
He can throw a decent short pass on occasions but he will off set that nice pass with a whole list of errors, poor defence, poor reads, he cant kick to save his life.
He has been used as a link player with us, almost like a roving half because our halves have been so poor for so long.

Theres no talent to be unlocked, hes had plenty of coaches that have tried, and the only thing consistent about him is that he is consistently bad.

One thing he is is a good person and bloke, so at least your not buying a ******** that will get into trouble.

Joe will spend most of his time trying to rope your young vulnerable players to join hillsong, maybe thats a good thing i dont know.

snowman · Nov 3, 2015

sami has a trial with the titans, need a bit of back depth if he leaves

Sutty · Nov 3, 2015

I like Sami I think he has a bit to him. Plus he is a beast at NSW Cup level.

Sutty · Nov 3, 2015

Honey Badger said:
Hi Bundy, some fair observations there mate but just on a few of your points.

Using the word 'brilliant' and Joe Paulo in the same sentence is a serious stretch of the imagination, i havnt seen a brilliant moment from Joe EVER, not at the Panthers or Eels.
Paulo will give you zero brilliant moments.
He can throw a decent short pass on occasions but he will off set that nice pass with a whole list of errors, poor defence, poor reads, he cant kick to save his life.
He has been used as a link player with us, almost like a roving half because our halves have been so poor for so long.

Theres no talent to be unlocked, hes had plenty of coaches that have tried, and the only thing consistent about him is that he is consistently bad.

One thing he is is a good person and bloke, so at least your not buying a ******** that will get into trouble.

Joe will spend most of his time trying to rope your young vulnerable players to join hillsong, maybe thats a good thing i dont know.

Was he cuckolding your wife or something?

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