(Archived) THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

snowman · Jun 15, 2022

burgess1978 said:
He was released on compassionate grounds so he could return home to Australia.

lmao, good luck to him, will be in nsw cup for the rest of his life

Gumby · Jun 15, 2022

snowman said:
lmao, good luck to him, will be in nsw cup for the rest of his life

a good coach i reckon could get something out of him. wouldn't be surprised if melbourne signed him tbh.

BurgoShark · Jun 15, 2022

snowman said:
lmao, good luck to him, will be in nsw cup for the rest of his life

Gumby said:
a good coach i reckon could get something out of him. wouldn't be surprised if melbourne signed him tbh.

I love how we refer to NSW Cup players as being "dreadful". Someone who plays 100-200 Cup games is among the best 1000 players in the world for 5-10 years. Just because he isn't among the best 200 it doesn't mean he is garbage.

Imo he was a useful player with pre-Covid rules. Needs the right situation/coach though. He definitely struggled with the rule change in 2020, and once Bomber got the boot it was pretty clear Hannay wasn't a fan.

bort · Jun 15, 2022

burgess1978 said:
I love how we refer to NSW Cup players as being "dreadful". Someone who plays 100-200 Cup games is among the best 1000 players in the world for 5-10 years. Just because he isn't among the best 200 it doesn't mean he is garbage.

When the media prints an article about a guy that's halfway through his third NRL season with 48 NRL games to his name and says "NRL star..." you always have comments complaining they aren't a star... from people who have probably watched them on tv 20+ hours.

They are a star because they are in the NRL, not of the NRL.

But all depends on how you want to skew your perspective. If you only think there are 10-20 good or better League players at any given club then a bloke who can't lock down a regular jersey is bad and anyone who can't make a top 30 is dreadful.

As for Billy Mags... yeah he will need to have improved a little and go somewhere he is a good fit to try and turn into one of these guys who gets a jersey regularly. Worrying less about comments on social media than he apparently did before probably a good place to start.
Dragons were rumoured interested at one stage I think but have moved Jack Bird since then. Could come close to a bench spot as a ball playing middle for Dogs or Knights maybe?

bort · Jun 15, 2022

Suggested via media that although Lucy Leilua has been released by Tigers Cowboys don't actually have cap space for him.

Presumably they need to move someone who is on above min wage but would be willing to go somewhere for a better opportunity (ie not a regular name in their top 17-20). Doesn't leave much though (especially as don't know actually their wages & cap situation)... Hampton, Elliot?

They might struggle to find an option!

Sparkles · Jun 15, 2022

burgess1978 said:
Joey always loved him too.

We should get him back. Goes nicely with Fitz's "everyone's a lock" recruitment and development strategy.

By my count, roughly 14-15 players from our top 30 have played lock in an NRL or Cup game at some point. Could be more.

Had a theory a while back that eventually every player in the squad would be an edge back rower. Guess Fitz has his own idea along that line

bort · Jun 15, 2022

Sparkles said:
Had a theory a while back that eventually every player in the squad would be an edge back rower. Guess Fitz has his own idea along that line

Fitz is almost the opposite, we have four in squad and one's arguably best as a centre and the other arguably best in the middle haha

Fitz is a lock man

andrew's_sharks · Jun 15, 2022

bort said:
Fitz is almost the opposite, we have four in squad and one's arguably best as a centre and the other arguably best in the middle haha

Fitz is a lock man

Talaki, Williams, McInnes, Toby, were all recruited before he was coach. Sure FInucane maybe not, but what actual locks has he recruited?

Wiz · Jun 15, 2022

andrew's_sharks said:
Talaki, Williams, McInnes, Toby, were all recruited before he was coach. Sure FInucane maybe not, but what actual locks has he recruited?

Don’t let facts get in the way

BurgoShark · Jun 15, 2022

bort said:
When the media prints an article about a guy that's halfway through his third NRL season with 48 NRL games to his name and says "NRL star..." you always have comments complaining they aren't a star... from people who have probably watched them on tv 20+ hours.

They are a star because they are in the NRL, not of the NRL.

But all depends on how you want to skew your perspective. If you only think there are 10-20 good or better League players at any given club then a bloke who can't lock down a regular jersey is bad and anyone who can't make a top 30 is dreadful.

As for Billy Mags... yeah he will need to have improved a little and go somewhere he is a good fit to try and turn into one of these guys who gets a jersey regularly. Worrying less about comments on social media than he apparently did before probably a good place to start.
Dragons were rumoured interested at one stage I think but have moved Jack Bird since then. Could come close to a bench spot as a ball playing middle for Dogs or Knights maybe?

That’s a good summary.

It’s just annoying when people say “so and so can’t be any good because he is only playing cup”. So much has to go right for someone to become an NRL regular. It’s not just about being a good player.

Recent evidence also shows us that the gap between cup and NRL isn’t as big as people like to pretend it is. When guys nobody rated have come up in to the right situation (e.g. Capewell, Hynes, Fogerty, JJ, Woolford) they have shown they belong, and when high profile guys have been dropped down, they don’t immediately come in and score 9 tries a game. They just play the same, and only look as good as the team around them - unless they are Segy, who tried to play like he was a superstar and was the worst player on the field.

The worst players in cup would probably get embarrassed in the NRL, but there are plenty of guys in every cup side who could handle it if they were placed in the right situation.

bort · Jun 15, 2022

andrew's_sharks said:
Talaki, Williams, McInnes, Toby, were all recruited before he was coach. Sure FInucane maybe not, but what actual locks has he recruited?

Actually if anything I was counting moving Graham there over Talakai. But bringing in Finucane after all those guys are on the books suggests he doesn't hate a lock.

He has now also signed Colquhoun and even Oregon Kaufusi has played a little time at lock for Eels.

BurgoShark · Jun 15, 2022

bort said:
Actually if anything I was counting moving Graham there over Talakai. But bringing in Finucane after all those guys are on the books suggests he doesn't hate a lock.

He has now also signed Colquhoun and even Oregon Kaufusi has played a little time at lock for Eels.

Berrell has played heaps of lock, Trindall is playing there.

If you want to get pedantic, Nicho and Moyza have each played one game off the bench at lock (before Fitz’s time).

Even Ronnie looked like he wanted in on the action on the weekend. He was in the middle throwing inside balls and tip ons.

Everyone’s a lock.

Sparkles · Jun 15, 2022

bort said:
Fitz is almost the opposite, we have four in squad and one's arguably best as a centre and the other arguably best in the middle haha

Fitz is a lock man

Welcome back Billy M

Sparkles · Jun 15, 2022

burgess1978 said:
That’s a good summary.

It’s just annoying when people say “so and so can’t be any good because he is only playing cup”. So much has to go right for someone to become an NRL regular. It’s not just about being a good player.

Recent evidence also shows us that the gap between cup and NRL isn’t as big as people like to pretend it is. When guys nobody rated have come up in to the right situation (e.g. Capewell, Hynes, Fogerty, JJ, Woolford) they have shown they belong, and when high profile guys have been dropped down, they don’t immediately come in and score 9 tries a game. They just play the same, and only look as good as the team around them.

The worst players in cup would probably get embarrassed in the NRL, but there are plenty of guys in every cup side who could handle it if they were placed in the right situation.

Would you say that low gap is down to the way most players are brought through? As in many starting their NRL careers on the wing and building to their best position? The failures seem to be moreso when a rookie half is throw into the 7 and expected to perform like a Hastings.

andrew's_sharks · Jun 15, 2022

bort said:
Actually if anything I was counting moving Graham there over Talakai. But bringing in Finucane after all those guys are on the books suggests he doesn't hate a lock.

He has now also signed Colquhoun and even Oregon Kaufusi has played a little time at lock for Eels.

Oregon and Colquhoun are middle forwards, yes, but likely to play prop.

BurgoShark · Jun 15, 2022

Sparkles said:
Would you say that low gap is down to the way most players are brought through? As in many starting their NRL careers on the wing and building to their best position? The failures seem to be moreso when a rookie half is throw into the 7 and expected to perform like a Hastings.

I think the gap between players who were “ready” and “almost ready” was always a small one. NYC spread the good players out over 3 comps rather than 2 though. Since 2018 the quality of Cup in both states is better imo.

Pathways and systems are obviously a big thing too. It works very differently in Qld to NSW, because it’s not the NRL teams who do that (it’s the Q Cup teams). Qld has actually re-worked all of that in the last 4 years to align with the Player Development Framework, so I don’t think we would have seen much benefit from those changes just yet.

Trying to rush 7’s is definitely the biggest failing, but I reckon that has a lot to do with the player/manager getting impatient and not wanting to bide his time

Sparkles · Jun 15, 2022

burgess1978 said:
I think the gap between players who were “ready” and “almost ready” was always a small one. NYC spread the good players out over 3 comps rather than 2 though. Since 2018 the quality of Cup in both states is better imo.

Pathways and systems are obviously a big thing too. It works very differently in Qld to NSW, because it’s not the NRL teams who do that (it’s the Q Cup teams). Qld has actually re-worked all of that in the last 4 years to align with the Player Development Framework, so I don’t think we would have seen much benefit from those changes just yet.

Trying to rush 7’s is definitely the biggest failing, but I reckon that has a lot to do with the player/manager getting impatient and not wanting to bide his time

It feels like more rookies are physically better prepared for first grade these days. Not sure if it's because of all the poly and kiwi kids coming through or just that they're getting better phyical training in the lower grades, but you don't see as many of the Matt Rogers type kids with their jerseys hanging off them looking like mum dropped them off at the wrong ground as you used to

BurgoShark · Jun 15, 2022

Sparkles said:
It feels like more rookies are physically better prepared for first grade these days. Not sure if it's because of all the poly and kiwi kids coming through or just that they're getting better phyical training in the lower grades, but you don't see as many of the Matt Rogers type kids with their jerseys hanging off them looking like mum dropped them off at the wrong ground as you used to

I think the schools have a lot to do with that. The kids in footy programs do a LOT of physical training - some would say too much.

I have 5 boys in my team who are at Broncos/Titans/Dolphins schools. To varying degrees these boys all do more “gym” training than what developmental models recommend, though for at least one of those schools the gym program is optional rather than mandatory - and they are supplementing it with education around proper management of workload and injury.

One of the boys who is at a Broncos school has missed a lot of time with injuries/niggles that likely could have been avoided with a bit more rest. He’s growing a lot, so imo all the physical load is wearing on his knees/back/hammies.

I guess the other thing is “picking big kids”. If you only select from a pool of big kids, you only have to teach him footy. You don’t have to worry about the physical stuff too much. I know a school UNDER 12 rep coach who refuses to lock centres and wingers unless they are 75kg plus. Body shape first, footy ability second.

bort · Jun 15, 2022

burgess1978 said:
Berrell has played heaps of lock, Trindall is playing there.

If you want to get pedantic, Nicho and Moyza have each played one game off the bench at lock (before Fitz’s time).

Even Ronnie looked like he wanted in on the action on the weekend. He was in the middle throwing inside balls and tip ons.

Everyone’s a lock.

Yeah I notice Ronnie
Interesting to see how that plays out. Him and Tracey both have the energy to do a bit extra at the right times

Sparkles · Jun 15, 2022

burgess1978 said:
I think the schools have a lot to do with that. The kids in footy programs do a LOT of physical training - some would say too much.

I have 5 boys in my team who are at Broncos/Titans/Dolphins schools. To varying degrees these boys all do more “gym” training than what developmental models recommend, though for at least one of those schools the gym program is optional rather than mandatory - and they are supplementing it with education around proper management of workload and injury.

One of the boys who is at a Broncos school has missed a lot of time with injuries/niggles that likely could have been avoided with a bit more rest. He’s growing a lot, so imo all the physical load is wearing on his knees/back/hammies.

I guess the other thing is “picking big kids”. If you only select from a pool of big kids, you only have to teach him footy. You don’t have to worry about the physical stuff too much. I know a school UNDER 12 rep coach who refuses to lock centres and wingers unless they are 75kg plus. Body shape first, footy ability second.

Yeah right. That's pretty negligent... I guess NRL still isn't 'pro' enough to have proper practices all the way down through those levels yet.
I'd be pissed as a parent if my kid was getting busted at that age because they were over-working him. Crazy.

The big kid thing is such a problem and I don't know that there's a solution. You don't really want all the lightweights playing against each other and only ever tackling kids around the same size as them, nor do you want Talakai Jnr from that video posted the other day just stampeeding over the little guys on the way to the try line every carry.

(Archived) THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

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