Official Matt Moylan

bort

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Moylan & Hynes from what I saw pretty much have the same way of playing, both ball running halves rather then out & out kickers though Hynes certainly has a better kicking game then Moylan. If we are going to continue seeing the Moylan Hynes combo in the halves for a few weeks I really think Moylan should be the ball runner on the 4th, not Hynes like he was doing on the 4th a fair bit. Moylan really can't kick so that often left us with no short kicker on the last.

Hynes when he did kick I have to give him credit, he was a very good kicker at times, the kick where he kicked from pretty much our 30mtr line all the way to within their 20mtr zone almost a 40/20. We got the ball back from that anyway. Moylan should be the 4th tackle runner then Hynes will have the opportunity to do a small grubber, chip kick or another run of the ball on the last.

When Trindall gets back at this stage I think I'd prefer a Hynes/Trindall combo because then Hynes probably can do 4th tackle runs because we'd then have Trindall as the 5th tackle kicking option. One of the 2 can then be the utility still.
Historically we have tended to use the 4th tackle as a set up play. Someone like Gal takes a hit because he is trying to get to a certain spot and hopefully get a quick PTB. Chad knows how we want to kick it from that spot but SJ would also be free as a kicking option or to launch a running raid.

Pros and cons to this method because you are throwing away being a threat on tackle 4 to make your tackle 5 options better.

If we choose to run a play off the half where they challenge the line on play 4, to make that more of a threat, we risk affecting quality of tackle 5 options. Which is exactly what we saw happen, especially because it was our better kicker.

Maybe the answer is try and have Moylan do it but more so I would say the answer is we just need to get better at it.
A lot of our team are used to tackle 4 being a set up (almost rest) play. Whether it's Hynes or Moylan they should have better options available and be less likely to be caught with ball as a result.

To some extent maybe also still keeping tackle 5 set up in mind ie Hynes would rather go down in right area of field for our preferred tackle 5 than take an option that is only okay, but plays away from there.

So there are probably a few elements in play here but the end result may be we play a style that is more threatening on play 4 on average, but means more sloppy on play 5 on average, vs recent years.
 

Wiz

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I'm not arguing Moylan vs Trindall, or Moylan vs Hynes, or Moylan vs anyone. I'm saying Moylan did some good things and bad things, and in this particular game I think the good outweighed the bad. It was hardly a masterclass, but it wasn't the cluster**** some seem to think it was either.


WTF? There is nobody on this forum as vocal as I am about the importance of the lead up rather than just the final pass. You could probably find a dozen rants on here from me about what a pile of **** stat a "try assist" is. In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone involved in the game (not just on this forum) anywhere who is more passionate about this than I am.
No one is saying it’s Moylan vs Trindall I’m just poking holes in your comment, you’re a smart dude just surprised about your Moylan take
Moylan & Hynes from what I saw pretty much have the same way of playing, both ball running halves rather then out & out kickers though Hynes certainly has a better kicking game then Moylan. If we are going to continue seeing the Moylan Hynes combo in the halves for a few weeks I really think Moylan should be the ball runner on the 4th, not Hynes like he was doing on the 4th a fair bit. Moylan really can't kick so that often left us with no short kicker on the last.

Hynes when he did kick I have to give him credit, he was a very good kicker at times, the kick where he kicked from pretty much our 30mtr line all the way to within their 20mtr zone almost a 40/20. We got the ball back from that anyway. Moylan should be the 4th tackle runner then Hynes will have the opportunity to do a small grubber, chip kick or another run of the ball on the last.

When Trindall gets back at this stage I think I'd prefer a Hynes/Trindall combo because then Hynes probably can do 4th tackle runs because we'd then have Trindall as the 5th tackle kicking option. One of the 2 can then be the utility still.
Good take mate - common sense prevails with you
 

Sparkles

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Hynes is a good runner, far better than mong. If mong playing 6 is limiting Hynes from running then that's just not on.
For sure. I actually thought Moyza was trying to stay out of Nicho's way for much of the game to give him a chance to run the show.
 

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Historically we have tended to use the 4th tackle as a set up play. Someone like Gal takes a hit because he is trying to get to a certain spot and hopefully get a quick PTB. Chad knows how we want to kick it from that spot but SJ would also be free as a kicking option or to launch a running raid.

Pros and cons to this method because you are throwing away being a threat on tackle 4 to make your tackle 5 options better.

If we choose to run a play off the half where they challenge the line on play 4, to make that more of a threat, we risk affecting quality of tackle 5 options. Which is exactly what we saw happen, especially because it was our better kicker.

Maybe the answer is try and have Moylan do it but more so I would say the answer is we just need to get better at it.
A lot of our team are used to tackle 4 being a set up (almost rest) play. Whether it's Hynes or Moylan they should have better options available and be less likely to be caught with ball as a result.

To some extent maybe also still keeping tackle 5 set up in mind ie Hynes would rather go down in right area of field for our preferred tackle 5 than take an option that is only okay, but plays away from there.

So there are probably a few elements in play here but the end result may be we play a style that is more threatening on play 4 on average, but means more sloppy on play 5 on average, vs recent years.
Maybe Fitzzy is encouraging this year to be different in running of the ball on both 4th & 5th & score off a run rather then a repeat set through a short kick through & if he is I won't argue against that & we should only get better. Hynes is by far the better runner though so I'd still encourage Hynes as the 5th tackle runner, not Moylan.
 

sharkboy18

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In our win in the 2nd trial over the Dogs I still remember we ran the ball a lot more then in previous years & Trindall did score the 1st try off a scrum based play same as Blayke scored our 1st try from another scrum based play on the 1st which I'll be honest, really did catch me off guard but was rather impressed. Reminded me of Barbas try in the 2016 GF win.
 

Sparkles

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Maybe Fitzzy is encouraging this year to be different in running of the ball on both 4th & 5th & score off a run rather then a repeat set through a short kick through & if he is I won't argue against that & we should only get better. Hynes is by far the better runner though so I'd still encourage Hynes as the 5th tackle runner, not Moylan.
Could be all about the percentages. If you're tackled 1 metre out from their line, in the corner, you should back your defence to start your next set from the halfway line. Rinse and repeat and that's a lot of sustanied pressure. And fits with Fitz' defence-first mindset.

I'd be interested in how many attacking kicks end in 7 tackle sets, drop-outs or tries.
 

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Could be all about the percentages. If you're tackled 1 metre out from their line, in the corner, you should back your defence to start your next set from the halfway line. Rinse and repeat and that's a lot of sustanied pressure. And fits with Fitz' defence-first mindset.

I'd be interested in how many attacking kicks end in 7 tackle sets, drop-outs or tries.
I'd add these scenarios...

- defending team tackle 1 on/inside their own 10
- defending team tackle 0 on/inside own ten
- attacking team gets 6-more tackles
 

sharkboy18

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Could be all about the percentages. If you're tackled 1 metre out from their line, in the corner, you should back your defence to start your next set from the halfway line. Rinse and repeat and that's a lot of sustanied pressure. And fits with Fitz' defence-first mindset.

I'd be interested in how many attacking kicks end in 7 tackle sets, drop-outs or tries.
We conceded a few soft tries but when Canberra had 5-6 sets in a row in the 1st half early & we kept them out that whole time & obviously our middle defence is going to improve for sure.

Say we are tackled on the 4th in the corner then I'd really encourage us to pass the ball quickly & wider then get Kennedy to make his good attacking runs, I can see him getting a few tries from those plays this year, like Nikora did aswell in the trial from an inside ball by Hynes.

I wouldn't mind taking note of how many repeat sets off grubbers we get this year compared to last too if we are going to run a lot more tbh.
 

bort

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Maybe Fitzzy is encouraging this year to be different in running of the ball on both 4th & 5th & score off a run rather then a repeat set through a short kick through & if he is I won't argue against that & we should only get better. Hynes is by far the better runner though so I'd still encourage Hynes as the 5th tackle runner, not Moylan.
If you're expecting the half to actually take on the line in the 5th then I agree ball in Hynes hands better. If the team is running the ball then can start in eithers hands - watch Moylans work in our tries, it's good - and either probably go through both players if it's an openside play.

Could be all about the percentages. If you're tackled 1 metre out from their line, in the corner, you should back your defence to start your next set from the halfway line. Rinse and repeat and that's a lot of sustanied pressure. And fits with Fitz' defence-first mindset.

I'd be interested in how many attacking kicks end in 7 tackle sets, drop-outs or tries.
Perhaps if you are planning to be more adventurous on 4th (attacking play rather than set-up play) it makes sense to expect to be more measured on tackle 5 when (as I covered above) you may not be set up as well.
Hopefully the challenge from whatever play 4 looks like increases chance of effectiveness from a shortside ball to Teig* or whatever other conservative play on 5th is.

Perhaps also Fitz prefers a turnover near the line with set defence (with less chance of repeat set to us) over 7 tackle set from the 20.
As a defensive minded coach feasting on the opposition as they try and get out of own 10-20 would be appealing.

*not saying that particular play was a good play, although did turn over the ball in a good spot.
 

Sparkles

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If you're expecting the half to actually take on the line in the 5th then I agree ball in Hynes hands better. If the team is running the ball then can start in eithers hands - watch Moylans work in our tries, it's good - and either probably go through both players if it's an openside play.


Perhaps if you are planning to be more adventurous on 4th (attacking play rather than set-up play) it makes sense to expect to be more measured on tackle 5 when (as I covered above) you may not be set up as well.
Hopefully the challenge from whatever play 4 looks like increases chance of effectiveness from a shortside ball to Teig* or whatever other conservative play on 5th is.

Perhaps also Fitz prefers a turnover near the line with set defence (with less chance of repeat set to us) over 7 tackle set from the 20.
As a defensive minded coach feasting on the opposition as they try and get out of own 10-20 would be appealing.

*not saying that particular play was a good play, although did turn over the ball in a good spot.
Yeah, exactly. Maybe the fact we noticed they ran that 5th play so much was because it was working and getting then sustained positon!
 

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I would love to hear the discussions on their video review from the game. Would be very interesting hearing what they say about the 4th tackle runs by Hynes and last play tackle options etc.

Would also like to see what is said when they pause just before Ramiens no ball tackle at the end..
 

bort

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I would love to hear the discussions on their video review from the game. Would be very interesting hearing what they say about the 4th tackle runs by Hynes and last play tackle options etc.

Would also like to see what is said when they pause just before Ramiens no ball tackle at the end..

Yes at this stage there were some signs of a bit of a structural change to our sets, away from a style which we played for quite a while (and probably suited the likes of Gallen and Chad).
It would be interesting to see whether Fitz was happy we did what was asked and just wants execution cleaned up or whether we were off book, I guess we will know over next few weeks.

As well as the fact it is a new halves pairing and (in terms of NRL) a new player to the halfback role if we have changed one of the key elements of our structure that will also add to us taking time.

We might look a bit messier at the back end of sets for a bit but hopefully the end result is an increase in offense on the 4th.
If we threaten well enough on the 4th once we are gelled hopefully the last tackle options shouldn't be worse on average (also being better would be nice).
 

Sparkles

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Yes at this stage there were some signs of a bit of a structural change to our sets, away from a style which we played for quite a while (and probably suited the likes of Gallen and Chad).
It would be interesting to see whether Fitz was happy we did what was asked and just wants execution cleaned up or whether we were off book, I guess we will know over next few weeks.

As well as the fact it is a new halves pairing and (in terms of NRL) a new player to the halfback role if we have changed one of the key elements of our structure that will also add to us taking time.

We might look a bit messier at the back end of sets for a bit but hopefully the end result is an increase in offense on the 4th.
If we threaten well enough on the 4th once we are gelled hopefully the last tackle options shouldn't be worse on average (also being better would be nice).
Yeah, I'd have to check the replay... we might not have been set up on Blayke's open side to take the ball that way. But it did look rehearsed, he didn't stutter at all
 

bort

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Yeah, I'd have to check the replay... we might not have been set up on Blayke's open side to take the ball that way. But it did look rehearsed, he didn't stutter at all
Keep in mind also we may well have spent all offseason practising that with Wade maybe actually an option to kick.
Think Teig even did try to kick once?

It’s quite hard to judge where we are at atm as we don’t know how we are supposed to look. Are there people doing the complete wrong thing or just execution errors?

New halves pairing and extreme weight of possession against us wouldnt give us the cleanest showing
 

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Just out of interest on that try, I'll just bring it up here cause I can't think of anywhere else to ask the question, that was our 1st try but what was Wighton & Canberra players going on about? As soon as we scored I noticed Wighton put in a good push & shove & it started a little shove between numerous players. Were they (Canberra) complaining about something we did? It made me laugh how stupid he was, our 1st try we score he starts a good niggle.
 

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Just out of interest on that try, I'll just bring it up here cause I can't think of anywhere else to ask the question, that was our 1st try but what was Wighton & Canberra players going on about? As soon as we scored I noticed Wighton put in a good push & shove & it started a little shove between numerous players. Were they (Canberra) complaining about something we did? It made me laugh how stupid he was, our 1st try we score he starts a good niggle.
Yeah not sure what that was about, I'm interest to have a look...

Looks like Young was first man in and pushes Nikora maybe someone got a shove from our players running in to celebrate?
End of highlights looks like maybe Whitehead might get bowled by Tolman? Young can't get to Tolman so shoves nearest man, Nikora.

Wighton actually grabs Young and then reacts when Ronnie pushes Young. So surprisingly I can't really see that Wighton is at fault, but unsurprisingly Ronnie escalates things haha

CHN comes in late for a cheap shot on Ronnies back which was actually the worst thing anyone did as far as I can see from highlights replay.
 

sharkboy18

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Yeah not sure what that was about, I'm interest to have a look...

Looks like Young was first man in and pushes Nikora maybe someone got a shove from our players running in to celebrate?
End of highlights looks like maybe Whitehead might get bowled by Tolman? Young can't get to Tolman so shoves nearest man, Nikora.

Wighton actually grabs Young and then reacts when Ronnie pushes Young. So surprisingly I can't really see that Wighton is at fault, but unsurprisingly Ronnie escalates things haha

CHN comes in late for a cheap shot on Ronnies back which was actually the worst thing anyone did as far as I can see from highlights replay.
I'll have to have another closer look to see who does escalate it if it's not Wighton, not that it matters anymore but considering it's our 1st try of the season & Canberra starts a little push & shove is what made me interested considering we don't start 1 on their tries.
 
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Getting the feeling that if Moylan doesn't step up against Eels, he'll be on the bench with Trindall starting.
 
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Was fifs giving it to young… who had last laugh and scored match winner… and of course ronaldo comes in late and pushes someone out the way which is what wrighton on reacted too.
 
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