Official Shark Park & Woolooware Bay Development

Thresher · Mar 15, 2019

yadam said:
We have to pay for the new leagues club fit out. They will need that 12 mil for that.

and then the people who move into the apartments will start putting in noise complaints

SF · Mar 15, 2019

HaroldBishop said:
Yeah but far denser population around those clubs.

Anyway, hope it can be done but I'm skeptical.

Yes agree, very different areas and we have a lot less gamblers than Hurstville. But if they build the rooftop terrace part right, no reason we couldn’t be successful along the lines of Menai. Just need to ensure that there is a very open tender process for the leagues club building, and that we use every bit of the escrowed money well.

The last ten years have been full of commercial/development in confidence secrets and NRL-sanction related secrets, and that is sort of understandable. But if this deal is finalised, time for the board to be 100% transparent in where the money goes.

slide rule · Mar 15, 2019

HaroldBishop said:
Yeah but far denser population around those clubs.

Anyway, hope it can be done but I'm skeptical.

Might be a good idea to try to acquire another club in a better location. Don’t close the one next to the ground. Just have a secondary club. The way Panthers etc own a heap of others.

HaroldBishop · Mar 15, 2019

SF said:
Yes agree, very different areas and we have a lot less gamblers than Hurstville. But if they build the rooftop terrace part right, no reason we couldn’t be successful along the lines of Menai. Just need to ensure that there is a very open tender process for the leagues club building, and that we use every bit of the escrowed money well.

The last ten years have been full of commercial/development in confidence secrets and NRL-sanction related secrets, and that is sort of understandable. But if this deal is finalised, time for the board to be 100% transparent in where the money goes.

Can't disagree with any of that.

slide rule said:
Might be a good idea to try to acquire another club in a better location. Don’t close the one next to the ground. Just have a secondary club. The way Panthers etc own a heap of others.

Not sure how we could afford to do that?

Would be interesting to see club revenue split into game days and non game days.

snowman · Mar 15, 2019

yadam said:
We have to pay for the new leagues club fit out. They will need that 12 mil for that.

it wont cost anywhere near 12 million and most of it has already been done

HaroldBishop · Mar 15, 2019

snowman said:
it wont cost anywhere near 12 million

Good

snowman · Mar 15, 2019

fit out and refurbishment projects vary rarely exceed $5 Million

egg · Mar 15, 2019

Isn't it nearly a whole new site .
Deck over Summertime bar.
Complete alteration to encompass that ?
Or recent renos will flow into the alterations required to make deck work ?
Most of the remaining club becoming the retail section of the development ?
I was hoping 12 mil is enough.

SF · Mar 15, 2019

egg said:
Isn't it nearly a whole new site .
Deck over Summertime bar.
Complete alteration to encompass that ?
Or recent renos will flow into the alterations required to make deck work ?
Most of the remaining club becoming the retail section of the development ?
I was hoping 12 mil is enough.

Yes my thoughts too. They said last year it could cost anywhere from $5 million to $15 million or more depending on the options taken

snowman · Mar 15, 2019

that isnt a refurbishment though, that is a new build

SF · Mar 15, 2019

snowman said:
that isnt a refurbishment though, that is a new build

yeah I don’t know exactly where Bluestone stops and we start, but I think that is effectively our responsibility. They give us the slab and we build the pictured club. Could be wrong

hank · Mar 15, 2019

SF said:
I think with this deal they're probably giving up about $10-15 million of what they hoped to make from the development in return for the more guaranteed money now. That's based on my notes from last year's AGM if they were correct. Maybe a reasonable trade-off given the risks with the property downturn.

The share of the retail was planned to be sold off for a long time, and was never worth as much as speculated, certainly wasn't a river of gold.

I do worry about how the $18 million "future fund" would be invested, given a couple of things I've heard. Probably more reason to get an independent director or two on the board.

An $8 million State government grant for the Centre of Excellence was announced in 2017 but we had to match it dollar for dollar: https://www.sharks.com.au/news/2017/12/19/sharks-granted-centre-of-excellence-funding/ . Perhaps the Federal government is going to match that.

In the end this is all in the middle of the board election campaign, so I'll be sceptical of it all.

Pretty good summary. What the sharks have done is pull forward the remaining land payments from Bluestone but given away some of the longer term upside profit. Only thing left to sell is the current field which, as I understand it could also be redeveloped residential. Big call from Bluestone as I am not sure they have the adequete funding in place to redevelop the entire concept and from my mail would require third party capital. Time will tell.

As for why the sharks did this.....the positive news story was obviously badly needed and, make no mistake, the NRL (and in particular Beetroot Head Beattie ) are keen to relocate them. This is the sharks way of saying F Off! If I were CEO, I would be looking to work / merge with the tradies and use their capital and enhance club balance sheet.

HaroldBishop · Mar 15, 2019

hank said:
As for why the sharks did this.....the positive news story was obviously badly needed and, make no mistake, the NRL (and in particular Beetroot Head Beattie ) are keen to relocate them. This is the sharks way of saying F Off! If I were CEO, I would be looking to work / merge with the tradies and use their capital and enhance club balance sheet.

Does it matter if a club is solvent or not though?

I'm assuming each club has some kind of signed agreement with the NRL? It would be interesting to read it to see just how or when a club's agreement can be terminated. Or is the agreement renewed periodically?

hank · Mar 15, 2019

HaroldBishop said:
Does it matter if a club is solvent or not though?

I'm assuming each club has some kind of signed agreement with the NRL? It would be interesting to read it to see just how or when a club's agreement can be terminated. Or is the agreement renewed periodically?

If the club is not solvent then liquidators could potentially move on their assets (ie the field) and sell to highest bidder. Given it is a beneficiary of the residential rezoning they could, quite feasibly loose the oval as it would be sold out from under them to a residential developer. And yes, there would be an agreement with NRL that requires club to be solvent or they would have certain rights, so vital they remain solvent.

HaroldBishop · Mar 15, 2019

hank said:
If the club is not solvent then liquidators could potentially move on their assets (ie the field) and sell to highest bidder. Given it is a beneficiary of the residential rezoning they could, quite feasibly loose the oval as it would be sold out from under them to a residential developer. And yes, there would be an agreement with NRL that requires club to be solvent or they would have certain rights, so vital they remain solvent.

Sorry, not so much talking about the development, more so if the NRL decided they no longer wanted us.

Do they need to wait for us to be insolvent to flick us? Sure, it would make it far easier if we weren't, but I'm sure they could git rid of us regardless if they wanted to.

Mark^Bastard · Mar 15, 2019

I can't answer that question, but I'm sure there'd be some details from when Souths were kicked out and then reinstated. I believe there was a legal case there as well as the backlash.

HaroldBishop · Mar 15, 2019

Mark^Bastard said:
I can't answer that question, but I'm sure there'd be some details from when Souths were kicked out and then reinstated. I believe there was a legal case there as well as the backlash.

Souths were booted because they didn't meet so-called 'standards' the administration dreamed up at the time.

I can't remember a legal case to be honest but it was a while ago now.

hank · Mar 15, 2019

HaroldBishop said:
Sorry, not so much talking about the development, more so if the NRL decided they no longer wanted us.

Do they need to wait for us to be insolvent to flick us? Sure, it would make it far easier if we weren't, but I'm sure they could git rid of us regardless if they wanted to.

It definately helps them if we are. I would assume that is one of the conditions of getting the NRL grant every year

Mr Ryan · Mar 15, 2019

There’s no way anybody gets moved or punted unless they’re broke.

Why would the NRL be that ruthless if everyone’s paying their bills?

The only reason Souths got punted was because News Ltd was obsessed with 14 teams and it was part of ARL/Super League peace deal. How well did that go?

I personally think they’ll add 2 teams in 20-22 - Brisbane 2 and Perth.

Long term they’ll be hoping some needs bailing out and they move them to area that they wouldn’t put a new team in, but would like a relocation eg Central Coast, Adelaide, NZ 2

Milkshark · Mar 15, 2019

Mr Ryan said:
I personally think they’ll add 2 teams in 20-22 - Brisbane 2 and Perth.

There isn't enough talent in the comp we have to support the amount team we already have.

Tim Mannah is paid to play footy FFS.

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