Wibble wades into the Bird Bath (Warning - Long and possibly boring)

Wibble

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I was so depressed last week, and so unsure of “the truth” that I was not of a mind to think much about the “alleged” Greg Bird incident. But with the Sharks doing well and my spirits lifting, I have thought more about the incident, though I fear I am no closer to uncovering the truth (nor is anyone else, from the looks of it).

But thinking about it, the main conclusion I can draw is that the whole incident stinks. It reeks from all angles. The putrid wake of this incident is leaving a smelly trail of waste throughout the Sharks, the Shire, and the whole NRL.

There are plenty of things to not like about this, but in order to make any sense of this incident I had to break down exactly what is bothering my olfactory nerves, and see what possible consequences I can foresee from each separate, sordid, smelly part.

I don’t like that the Sharks are without Bird for the finals.

I make no apologies for this being the part of the whole affair that I dislike the most. In our best season in years, with a team building momentum on field going into the finals, we suddenly find one of our super stars is out, for the whole finals series.

Sure we are a good team anyway without Bird, and we can win games without him, and can even win the whole competition without him. Sure we looked “galvanised” by adversity on Friday. But there is no person who watches Rugby League seriously who could deny Bird adds a significant amount to any team, in attack and defense.

The most annoying thing would be to lose the grand final by 1 or 2 points, thinking Bird could have made that difference.

I don’t like that the Sharks could be without Bird for the future.

It is one thing to say that we could still win from here in 2008, because we are going into the finals from at least third place. But it is hard to win week to week in the NRL, and it requires a strong squad (which we will have) built around some genuine gamebreakers (which we may have one less of).

The Sharks and Ricky Stuart did their recruiting, contracting and preparing for 2009 and beyond assuming Bird would be an integral part of the team, and now he may not be. Any team has to adapt to their circumstances, but realistically, losing a star player suddenly for a long period of time can really hurt a team (look at the Bulldogs and SBW, Prince and the Titans this year and last, or the Broncos and Lockyer from last year to the start of 2008).

I also dislike that these two concerns (the Sharks run into the 2008 finals, and their future without Bird) actually motivate other people (non Sharks fans) to want Bird sacked. If they hate the Sharks so much, and think Bird has caused all of this, they should celebrate him as the harbinger of Sharky doom.

Who can Sharks fans blame for either of these things I don’t like (assuming they don’t like them as well)? It’s too hard to say at this point. The “blame” will be spread between Bird, Zappia, the NRL, the media, public outrage and Sharks sponsors with no clear culprits. It seems a bit counterproductive to blame anyone at this point. It’s not as if we have lost this year yet, let alone 2009…

I don’t like that an incident happened.


This seems obvious, but what I mean is that something damaging to Milligan has obviously occurred, as opposed to a “set up” that seems to get NRL players in trouble but has no real substance. Because Milligan has clearly been injured in some way, most people are saying that the “most important thing” is her welfare. This I do like. It is nice, and a comforting reminder of our humanity. It is also complete bull s%$#.

If this had not been about an NRL star, no one would have heard of Milligan, or cared, other than her immediate family. If you doubt this, ask yourself how many other people are badly hurt or killed every day that don’t attract any sympathy. We say that her welfare is the most important thing because it would be nice if it was. But most of us are realistic enough to know that other factors are making this incident important.

Some people are so good at fooling themselves though, that they are outraged that Milligan has been hurt. So outraged at the injustice of a young lady being hurt (though it happens every second of every day) that they want justice now! These people need to take a deep breath, steady themselves, ask what they are really annoyed at, and consider logical solutions to address their grievances. So clearly an incident did happen.

If the incident involved violence, as many incidents do, then we already have the systems for investigating and dealing with such injustices, and the NRL, the Sharks, the media and the public are not involved in such systems.

I don’t like that Bird has a “history”.


Frankly, I believe an unhappy mixture of history, bad publicity and a series of unfortunate events can lead to the sorts of things I don’t like about this incident. That is reason enough to not like Bird’s history.

For many years I liked that the Sharks were considered squeaky clean. Then Nik Kosef won a premiership. And Terry lamb. Robbie O. Andrew Johns. Virtually the whole stinkin’ dogs of 02 (except Price, their “good guy”, though he got a ring…). The Roosters won with the aid of Gould carping on enough to have the rules changed, then set about exploiting the rule change with a ruthless new coach.

When the Sharks got that coach and I realised we could actually win, I also realised that NRL teams are not rewarded for being squeaky clean. I still like the tough, honest players. But having players with history, who are hated wherever they go, for on field or off field incidents, is not in itself a bad thing. I would prefer Gallen didn’t get suspended for stupid contrary conduct, but I’ve learnt I can love him for his toughness despite being a “grub”, and the more the papers, referees and rival fans pick on him, the more I love him.

Similarly, I’d prefer Bird had no shady past. Although Shane Marteene was a d%^$ and a crap player, he didn’t deserve to get kneed in the head. And Bird did deserve his hefty suspension. But he will pay for on field incidents just like every other player does, and he is not yet in the Jason Stevens league when it comes to suspensions, and everyone seems to love Stevo (especially Jason Stevens).

And what about Bird’s off field history? It would be “nice” if it wasn’t there, because that is feeding into the public outrage that is driving the lynching of Bird agenda.

It would be “nice” if everyone was always polite, consumed alcohol in moderate levels, and behaved “responsibly”. But in the real world, not everyone is nice. We even have different standards of what nice is. For some reason, Fevola dressing up in a nightie with a sex toy hanging out of his pants has been seen as poor taste. But in some areas, that may be the epitome of taste and humour.

So if Bird’s history does include some “allegedly” unsavoury events, that is really just tough for everyone that doesn’t like him. Not liking someone is a poor reason to deprive them of their livelihood. If his history has on field indiscretions, they are taken care of by the referees and the NRL judiciary.

If his off field history includes “alleged” (I love that word, don’t you? How many syllables do you say it with?) illegalities, they are treated by the same systems that deal with all illegalities. Again, these do not need input from media, the public or employers (unless as witnesses).

The only other issue then with Bird’s history is if it is contributing to any “disrepute”. I will deal with disrepute’s reputation later (yes, there’s more…).

I don’t like that Bird is involved with this incident.

Again, this sounds obvious, but what I dislike is that Bird has driven Milligan to hospital after she was injured at his place, and then has been arrested. This is about all I can gather from the articles about the incident without crashing into ambiguities and inconsistencies. But it is enough to have me worried.

Like most people, I am happy to say that if Bird is guilty of a serious crime, he should do the serious time. This seems straightforward. And if he is completely innocent of any significant wrongdoing, he should also be free from significant penalty. This just naturally to me seems the other side of the coin (“disrepute” notwithstanding).

But the “facts” as they stand, unsupported by supposition and innuendo, do not seem to me to point very firmly in either direction. And hence Bird’s culpability, and career, hang very much in limbo. This I do not like.
I want to know Bird is innocent, have him back, and get on with my Sharks supporting life. Failing that, I want to know he is guilty, deserves his lynching, and has been caught by an efficient and impartial justice system.

Sadly, if the truth “is out there”, it seems a little too elusive for even Fox Moulder, let alone Fox news, to uncover at the moment.

This leaves us with only the bare and inconclusive facts, and a lot of conspiracy theories.

(Just for the record, what do I think of these theories? I dislike ‘em…)

Theory 1- Bird “glassed” Milligan

A charge of grievous bodily harm means the police suspect Bird of some serious violence, though not necessarily glassing. Discussion of this theory is best played out in the courts. If guilty of this one, his future is beyond the NRL’s hands.

Theory 2- Bird assaulted Milligan.

This is again a matter for the courts, but that hasn’t prevented a lot of commentary about not blaming Milligan for staying with her abusive partner. Apparently this is common. I would imagine its more common to say that when it is known that one of the partners is abusive. We all tend to stay with our partners when their not abusive, assuming we still love them (as Milligan says of Bird).

Theory 3 – Bird tried to blame a “mate”.


If it adds to the evidence that he is guilty, and the police have this attempt to shift blame on record, it will be used in court. The actual “evidence”, as quoted by the papers, a text message saying “my manager is sorting this $%^& out” is a bit ambiguous, to say the least.

The supposed testimony to police from Milligan and Bird that Watson was involved should again come out in court. If this turns out to be the case, assuming Watson didn’t want to be blamed (I have a mate who is a Roosters fan who I swear would have gone to gaol for Freddy if anything like this had happened to him), it does seem a low act.

But a “low” act, while not nice, is like a grubby spit, rub of the head wound, or grab of the wheels. Not what we like our football stars to be doing, but not something that should eliminate them from the game. We would not have much left of the NRL if we did. And if we counted betrayal of friends on the list of dismissible offences, a lot of people would be unemployed.

It sucks that people treat friends badly, cheat on their partners, and lie to family and friends. But it happens. It is also really hard to “prove”, and not something that is generally the business of anyone other than the (former/theoretical) friends involved.

Theory 4 – Bird lied to his “club”.


Actually, sometimes this is extended to Bird lied to every staff member of the Sharks, and every fan. Or he may as well have. Just for the record I don’t feel he lied to me.

The two or three words he has ever spoken to me were polite, and he was supporting his supporters. I’m not sure anyone would think he was being polite to everyone at the club at that time. He may have lied to Zappia. He may not have. Zappia may not even know if that is the case yet or not.

Another theory with inconclusive evidence, but the courts won’t be deciding on this one. This is really Zappia’s call, if he feels Bird has lied to him. Ricky Stuart already seems to be backing Bird, but has not really said what he feels should happen if Bird lied to him and/or Zappia. Nor should he say. It is the sort of in house conversation that should be kept in house. As in, it is not my role, or yours (unless you’re reading this Zappia, by the way, hi . Try not to sue me. All of this article is alleged), or any one else’s.

If I may indulge in a little wild speculation (or a little more, some may say), if Zappia feels Bird has lied, he will not be “embarrassed”, he will act in the best interests of the club. He will discipline his wayward star, as he must, but he won’t sack him if it means we lose money, and a rival NRL team gains Bird. Sponsors and the NRL may force his hand or give him some outs, but I’m sure (reasonably) he is thinking of the Sharks long term future.

Speculation from outraged fans (incensed one way or another) are hopefully not going to sway his mind, and probably just adds to his distress at whatever decision he has to make (if Bird has lied, which I’m not saying he has).

Theory 5- Bird is being unfairly targeted.

Possibly. Not all police are as upstanding as we would like them to be (neither are all NRL players, or forum writers), and they may be picking on him with very little reason. But this is really wild speculation, way beyond the scope of any evidence we have seen.

Anyway, that is why we have separate police and judiciary processes in the justice system (yeah, I’ve seen “Law & Order”. Of course, the Australian justice system is not very close to the U.S.A.’s). The media are almost certainly targeting Bird with everything they can, unfairly or not. That is their job, and it is ours to see past their crap.

Rival fans will target Bird. That is also their job. If you think that is unfair, I hope you’ve never booed an opposition player or referee. None of these influences will have any effect on an impartial judicial system, and hopefully not on a partial (to the Sharks) Zappia.

The NRL is so used to dealing with players when 15 times as many rival fans want to see them hung as home fans want to see them saved, that they won’t rush to upset the Sharks. They will try to support Zappia in his decisions. Of course, everyone will go along with a court guilty verdict.

Anyone who wants a guilty verdict when Bird is found innocent in court wants to examine why they are targeting him.

And the last thing I don’t like is bringing the game into disrepute.

Don’t get me wrong here. I don’t feel the game is devastated by bad reputations of players. To a certain degree, I feel that any news is good news for the NRL itself. Most big organisations suffer a fair mix of good and bad publicity, and small organisations would kill for a % of it.

Some will argue that it affects junior development, and mothers don’t want their sons growing up to be thugs like Bird, and kids lose their heroes etc etc. Some of this is probably true, but I’d like to see market research on any of this before coming to any firm conclusions. I’d guess that cultural traditions, demographics, advertising, TV exposure and junior development programs all have as big an influence as bad press.

What I don’t like about disrepute is the notion of disrepute. I’m not sure why the NRL feels the need to control club discipline to the point that they can deregister a player. I understand that other occupations have their version of “disrepute”, but it more correctly a breach of codes of behaviour.

Suspected breaches of codes of behaviour do result in many allegedly normal people being “Stood down” before their behaviour is fully investigated. Sometimes, sadly, this is to protect the employer’s reputation (read- the government’s in many cases), but it is also often to limit risk to other stakeholders.

We probably don’t want police under investigation for corruption, or teacher’s being investigated for inappropriate behaviour with students, to still be working while they are being investigated. Even if the vast majority are usually found innocent, protection of vulnerable stakeholders balanced against fairness to employees requires us to pay those under investigation but keep them away from potential victims. But who are the victims that the NRL is protecting?

“Disrepute” is a ruse. It is a get out clause for clubs to sack a player for entirely internal discipline reasons, and not have that decision hurt them by the player just going somewhere else. Or at least that’s what I thought it was. The only two cases I can think of, involving Latu and Carney, seemed to be like that.

If every club had asked the NRL to invoke disrepute, there would be a lot of players out of the game. Buster would be gone, for one.

What has me worried is that the NRL have looked into having Bird deregistered in Super League as well, if found guilty. If he is guilty of something serious, surely he will do gaol time and struggle to get a passport.

Are we banning all ex-cons from playing top grade NRL and Super League, or is this a bit of hysteria? If he is guilty of something “less serious”, why is he the one to suffer more than others? It reeks, as does all of this, of something fishy. Added to that is the Shark’s standing down of Bird until his day in court (after the Grand Final). All the media commentators agree this is reasonable, since the allegations are so serious.

Gallen wanted to know why Laffranchi could play and Bird couldn’t. Combined with the threat of international deregistration, it adds up to something not quite right, compared to other cases of disrepute, but I can’t figure out what.

It seems like prejudging, which implies they know something about Bird’s guilt that we don’t. But would that really require the NRL and the Sharks to take the actions they have? Particularly the Sharks, if they win a premiership with a player later found guilty of an off field incident, will it hurt them so much? I’m not sure how I’d feel as a Sharks fan about that. But I will be ropable if we lose a grand final by a whisker and he is found innocent. If this is why they have made this decision, they are estimating that it is more likely that a guilty Bird will give us a premiership, than that a missing, innocent Bird will cost us the grand final. That shows a fair bit of confidence in the team I suppose.

Since the club has not been really clear to fans about why Bird is not playing, I can only speculate, but in cases where we are not told everything, I would guess internal politics are at play.

Sponsors, board members, a new boss and a coach growing in stature will all wield different influence, and I can’t possibly know why any or all of these wouldn’t want Bird playing. All I can do is hope they are doing the right thing, and can be open and accountable when the time is right. Oh, and I can stay alert and check that they are open and accountable.

Finally, lest I sound like a whingeing old fart (too late), I should point out what I do like. There is nothing about this incident that I like except maybe Gallen still backing his mate. What I do like, though, is the phenomenal effort every player (Bird included) and club official has put in to get the Sharks to where they are right now.

And I do like the thought of the coming finals series.

And our 2008 premiership.
 

The Celt

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The money men

Wibble, what you appear to have omitted is the role of the money men, the sponsors. PKF has agreed to continue, but is there a price to be paid. They weren't worried if Bird was innocent or guilty. They were concerned about how their would look associated with the incident. I think you will find these are the people who will decide if Bird pulls on a Sharks jumper again.
 

bort

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Wibble, what you appear to have omitted is the role of the money men, the sponsors. PKF has agreed to continue, but is there a price to be paid. They weren't worried if Bird was innocent or guilty. They were concerned about how their would look associated with the incident. I think you will find these are the people who will decide if Bird pulls on a Sharks jumper again.

i really dont care for PKF at all
if they cant back the sharks through thick and thin then they are expendable
they dont have the best reputation themselves
and arent really contributing that much money
LG on the other hand came out and said they would stick by the sharks
now that is what we want from our sponsors
 

sharks195

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Toyota didn't even acknowledge that anything had happened, which is pretty good too.
 

bort

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Toyota didn't even acknowledge that anything had happened, which is pretty good too.
another big money sponsor thats stuck around for awhile
not some blow in whinging sleeve sponsor
 

Capital_Shark

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Jesus Wibble I hope you haven't sparked BUZ's competitive side RE lengthy posts.
 

IronShark

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Wibble, that was definitely very long but it wasn't actually boring. Well done!

I think you have made some good, valid points and I agree with you on many of them. However one point I would like to make is in reference to your comment on the police investigation. I think you will find that the police have no real incident on whether the incident involved Greg Bird or not. They are not unfairly targetting him, it is just that, in domestic violence matters, the police pretty much have their hands tied. Regardless of what the victim says, where they see evidence of a domestic dispute resulting in an injury, they are obliged to take action in the form of an AVO and/or criminal charges. Basically, I think you will find they are just dotting the "i's" and crossing the "t's". Then it's a matter for the courts to decide.

One thing I will have to disagree on, like a few other members already have, is your point of view on "disrepute" To state that the behaviour of a player should be irrelevant is naive at best. You have to consider that, as a brand, rugby league has an image to sell. If that image is attractive to people and they support it in large numbers, companies will want to be associated with it and hey presto, you get the concept of sponsorship. If the image becomes unattractive to corporate sponsors, no matter how successful the product, they will take their money elsewhere.

Take pornography, for example (I'm sure many of our members just got interested!) Hardcore pornography has massive popularity, with many of the adult stars becoming household names, But how many corporations are lining up to have them endorse their products? Not too many, because they don't feel that image is appropriate for them. The same goes for rugby league. I'm sure that if the clubs and NRL turned a blind eye to off field dramas there would be a noticeable increase in the incidence of these matters and ultimately, detrimental to the game. What parent is going to encourage their child to take up league if it gives the message "sign your kids up to league, we'll encourage them to become violent drunks and recreational drug users!", even if that message is only implied by them not actively doing anything to stop it?

Ultimately I, like you, want to see Bird at the Sharks but he won't be back until this is completely resolved and that is the right course of action. If he is guilty, then of course, he won't be back at all - unless it is maybe at the end of his sentence - and this is also as it should be.

What would not be right is for him to be found not guilty and cleared of any wrongdoing but then to be sacked by the club only to be snapped up by a rival team.
 

Wibble

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Jesus Wibble I hope you haven't sparked BUZ's competitive side RE lengthy posts.

BUZ will get me back anyway Capital, maybe by challenging me to do a full statistical analysis of BUZ sentence length compared to average reading age of the average forum reader. Something inventive anyway!

Wibble, what you appear to have omitted is the role of the money men, the sponsors. PKF has agreed to continue, but is there a price to be paid. They weren't worried if Bird was innocent or guilty. They were concerned about how their would look associated with the incident. I think you will find these are the people who will decide if Bird pulls on a Sharks jumper again.

I hope you are wrong Celt, but I worry that you are right. I would love to have known more about the sponsors, their motivations and their influences but I don't.
All I can say is they are part of the mysterious mix that will determine the outcome for Bird. I agree with Bort that LG have been such good, long term sponsers, much as Toyota, that they are more who we should be working with to keep happy than PKF. Not that we should disregard any sponsor, they all contribute to giving us the team we love.

But Bird has also been (a massive) part of that contribution, so I hope Zappia weighs all of these concerns up when making a decision if the judicial processes don't make one for him, by finding Bird guilty. As I said, all we can do is trust our team's management (which I do, though I'm worried about Bird being stood down), and check on them for accountability when and if necessary.

Wibble, that was definitely very long but it wasn't actually boring. Well done!
Thanks IronShark :cheers

I don't know about the ins and outs of the role of police in domestic disputes, but what you say makes sense. I guess that would put at ease some fears that Bird "must be" guilty because it went to court, and then the role of Police would probably me to get a conviction, so they'll use whatever evidence they have to such an end. Of course, it doesn't mean he's not guilty either, the court's will decide. If it is a fairly procedural thing, then standing a player down when there is no victim to protect by doing so worries me even more. That seems very much a "if she's not a witch she'll burn" kind of thing.

I do agree with you that image will affect sponsorship and the growth of league, but I don't have the data to know by how much. I could infer from the NRL's stance on this incident, "a fair bit", but their stance now seems atypical. Obviously a complete disregard for player behaviour, and the reporting of such behaviour, could lead to long term negatives.

But PKF seem to have done all right with the disrepute of sponsoring Bird's team. People I work with actually know who they are now, and can tell me they are an accounting firm.

"Disrepute" caused by players seems to have been growing, along with League's popularity on TV. Their are many divergent influences on popularity, but the NRL seems to be in a healthy position. Since disrepute is partly manufactured by media outlets to sell ads, and partly championed by a moral majority that have no interest in the NRL whatsoever (or championed by fans who just want to kick a rival without regard to the effects of ignoring due process), I think the NRL need to be careful not to alienate players and fans by over spanking their bad boys.

We've already seen French Rugby is happy to take our players if we don't want them, so the NRL trying to drive Bird out of League, even from the Super League, seems highly unusual, before the court decision.

I'm with you, on the Bird playing for another club thing. Although I normally like watching the careers of ex-Sharkies in other clubs, if he was sacked for discipline reasons it would be hard to enjoy following his career. Which is what I thought the "disrepute" thing was all about, to help clubs discipline players (not the NRL deciding to do it outside of a club's control) without it biting them. But it doesn't seem to be working like that here either.
 
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IronShark

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"Disrepute" caused by players seems to have been growing, along with League's popularity on TV. Their are many divergent influences on popularity, but the NRL seems to be in a healthy position. Since disrepute is partly manufactured by media outlets to sell ads, and partly championed by a moral majority that have no interest in the NRL whatsoever (or championed by fans who just want to kick a rival without regard to the effects of ignoring due process), I think the NRL need to be careful not to alienate players and fans by over spanking their bad boys.

There are other factors influencing clubs over disciplinary problems and one of them I feel, is a real reason for fans to get behind it. That reason is performance. I have spoken about it before but I have reassert that as a Sharks fan, I don't want these guys out, especially mid season, smashing themselves up and getting into trouble. It simply doesn't make sense if you really want to win. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Storm are at the top of the league and seem to have no real off-field dramas, whereas clubs like Parramatta and Souths boast all-star lineups and have performed erratically at best with players consistently out of line.

Professionalism is a key element for most succesful sportsmen and women and the NRL seems slow to pick up on this. Look at the Australian Cricket teams response to Symonds behaviour. It may seem over the top but the team have a leadership group of key players who make these decisions. Therefore, Symonds was judged by his peers, not by some pen-pusher and was still held accountable as they realise the importance of the team over the individual.
 

DeadlyShark

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I was so depressed last week, and so unsure of “the truth” that I was not of a mind to think much about the “alleged” Greg Bird incident. But with the Sharks doing well and my spirits lifting, I have thought more about the incident, though I fear I am no closer to uncovering the truth (nor is anyone else, from the looks of it).

But thinking about it, the main conclusion I can draw is that the whole incident stinks. It reeks from all angles. The putrid wake of this incident is leaving a smelly trail of waste throughout the Sharks, the Shire, and the whole NRL.

There are plenty of things to not like about this, but in order to make any sense of this incident I had to break down exactly what is bothering my olfactory nerves, and see what possible consequences I can foresee from each separate, sordid, smelly part.

I don’t like that the Sharks are without Bird for the finals.

I make no apologies for this being the part of the whole affair that I dislike the most. In our best season in years, with a team building momentum on field going into the finals, we suddenly find one of our super stars is out, for the whole finals series.

Sure we are a good team anyway without Bird, and we can win games without him, and can even win the whole competition without him. Sure we looked “galvanised” by adversity on Friday. But there is no person who watches Rugby League seriously who could deny Bird adds a significant amount to any team, in attack and defense.

The most annoying thing would be to lose the grand final by 1 or 2 points, thinking Bird could have made that difference.

I don’t like that the Sharks could be without Bird for the future.

It is one thing to say that we could still win from here in 2008, because we are going into the finals from at least third place. But it is hard to win week to week in the NRL, and it requires a strong squad (which we will have) built around some genuine gamebreakers (which we may have one less of).

The Sharks and Ricky Stuart did their recruiting, contracting and preparing for 2009 and beyond assuming Bird would be an integral part of the team, and now he may not be. Any team has to adapt to their circumstances, but realistically, losing a star player suddenly for a long period of time can really hurt a team (look at the Bulldogs and SBW, Prince and the Titans this year and last, or the Broncos and Lockyer from last year to the start of 2008).

I also dislike that these two concerns (the Sharks run into the 2008 finals, and their future without Bird) actually motivate other people (non Sharks fans) to want Bird sacked. If they hate the Sharks so much, and think Bird has caused all of this, they should celebrate him as the harbinger of Sharky doom.

Who can Sharks fans blame for either of these things I don’t like (assuming they don’t like them as well)? It’s too hard to say at this point. The “blame” will be spread between Bird, Zappia, the NRL, the media, public outrage and Sharks sponsors with no clear culprits. It seems a bit counterproductive to blame anyone at this point. It’s not as if we have lost this year yet, let alone 2009…

I don’t like that an incident happened.


This seems obvious, but what I mean is that something damaging to Milligan has obviously occurred, as opposed to a “set up” that seems to get NRL players in trouble but has no real substance. Because Milligan has clearly been injured in some way, most people are saying that the “most important thing” is her welfare. This I do like. It is nice, and a comforting reminder of our humanity. It is also complete bull s%$#.

If this had not been about an NRL star, no one would have heard of Milligan, or cared, other than her immediate family. If you doubt this, ask yourself how many other people are badly hurt or killed every day that don’t attract any sympathy. We say that her welfare is the most important thing because it would be nice if it was. But most of us are realistic enough to know that other factors are making this incident important.

Some people are so good at fooling themselves though, that they are outraged that Milligan has been hurt. So outraged at the injustice of a young lady being hurt (though it happens every second of every day) that they want justice now! These people need to take a deep breath, steady themselves, ask what they are really annoyed at, and consider logical solutions to address their grievances. So clearly an incident did happen.

If the incident involved violence, as many incidents do, then we already have the systems for investigating and dealing with such injustices, and the NRL, the Sharks, the media and the public are not involved in such systems.

I don’t like that Bird has a “history”.


Frankly, I believe an unhappy mixture of history, bad publicity and a series of unfortunate events can lead to the sorts of things I don’t like about this incident. That is reason enough to not like Bird’s history.

For many years I liked that the Sharks were considered squeaky clean. Then Nik Kosef won a premiership. And Terry lamb. Robbie O. Andrew Johns. Virtually the whole stinkin’ dogs of 02 (except Price, their “good guy”, though he got a ring…). The Roosters won with the aid of Gould carping on enough to have the rules changed, then set about exploiting the rule change with a ruthless new coach.

When the Sharks got that coach and I realised we could actually win, I also realised that NRL teams are not rewarded for being squeaky clean. I still like the tough, honest players. But having players with history, who are hated wherever they go, for on field or off field incidents, is not in itself a bad thing. I would prefer Gallen didn’t get suspended for stupid contrary conduct, but I’ve learnt I can love him for his toughness despite being a “grub”, and the more the papers, referees and rival fans pick on him, the more I love him.

Similarly, I’d prefer Bird had no shady past. Although Shane Marteene was a d%^$ and a crap player, he didn’t deserve to get kneed in the head. And Bird did deserve his hefty suspension. But he will pay for on field incidents just like every other player does, and he is not yet in the Jason Stevens league when it comes to suspensions, and everyone seems to love Stevo (especially Jason Stevens).

And what about Bird’s off field history? It would be “nice” if it wasn’t there, because that is feeding into the public outrage that is driving the lynching of Bird agenda.

It would be “nice” if everyone was always polite, consumed alcohol in moderate levels, and behaved “responsibly”. But in the real world, not everyone is nice. We even have different standards of what nice is. For some reason, Fevola dressing up in a nightie with a sex toy hanging out of his pants has been seen as poor taste. But in some areas, that may be the epitome of taste and humour.

So if Bird’s history does include some “allegedly” unsavoury events, that is really just tough for everyone that doesn’t like him. Not liking someone is a poor reason to deprive them of their livelihood. If his history has on field indiscretions, they are taken care of by the referees and the NRL judiciary.

If his off field history includes “alleged” (I love that word, don’t you? How many syllables do you say it with?) illegalities, they are treated by the same systems that deal with all illegalities. Again, these do not need input from media, the public or employers (unless as witnesses).

The only other issue then with Bird’s history is if it is contributing to any “disrepute”. I will deal with disrepute’s reputation later (yes, there’s more…).

I don’t like that Bird is involved with this incident.

Again, this sounds obvious, but what I dislike is that Bird has driven Milligan to hospital after she was injured at his place, and then has been arrested. This is about all I can gather from the articles about the incident without crashing into ambiguities and inconsistencies. But it is enough to have me worried.

Like most people, I am happy to say that if Bird is guilty of a serious crime, he should do the serious time. This seems straightforward. And if he is completely innocent of any significant wrongdoing, he should also be free from significant penalty. This just naturally to me seems the other side of the coin (“disrepute” notwithstanding).

But the “facts” as they stand, unsupported by supposition and innuendo, do not seem to me to point very firmly in either direction. And hence Bird’s culpability, and career, hang very much in limbo. This I do not like.
I want to know Bird is innocent, have him back, and get on with my Sharks supporting life. Failing that, I want to know he is guilty, deserves his lynching, and has been caught by an efficient and impartial justice system.

Sadly, if the truth “is out there”, it seems a little too elusive for even Fox Moulder, let alone Fox news, to uncover at the moment.

This leaves us with only the bare and inconclusive facts, and a lot of conspiracy theories.

(Just for the record, what do I think of these theories? I dislike ‘em…)

Theory 1- Bird “glassed” Milligan

A charge of grievous bodily harm means the police suspect Bird of some serious violence, though not necessarily glassing. Discussion of this theory is best played out in the courts. If guilty of this one, his future is beyond the NRL’s hands.

Theory 2- Bird assaulted Milligan.

This is again a matter for the courts, but that hasn’t prevented a lot of commentary about not blaming Milligan for staying with her abusive partner. Apparently this is common. I would imagine its more common to say that when it is known that one of the partners is abusive. We all tend to stay with our partners when their not abusive, assuming we still love them (as Milligan says of Bird).

Theory 3 – Bird tried to blame a “mate”.


If it adds to the evidence that he is guilty, and the police have this attempt to shift blame on record, it will be used in court. The actual “evidence”, as quoted by the papers, a text message saying “my manager is sorting this $%^& out” is a bit ambiguous, to say the least.

The supposed testimony to police from Milligan and Bird that Watson was involved should again come out in court. If this turns out to be the case, assuming Watson didn’t want to be blamed (I have a mate who is a Roosters fan who I swear would have gone to gaol for Freddy if anything like this had happened to him), it does seem a low act.

But a “low” act, while not nice, is like a grubby spit, rub of the head wound, or grab of the wheels. Not what we like our football stars to be doing, but not something that should eliminate them from the game. We would not have much left of the NRL if we did. And if we counted betrayal of friends on the list of dismissible offences, a lot of people would be unemployed.

It sucks that people treat friends badly, cheat on their partners, and lie to family and friends. But it happens. It is also really hard to “prove”, and not something that is generally the business of anyone other than the (former/theoretical) friends involved.

Theory 4 – Bird lied to his “club”.


Actually, sometimes this is extended to Bird lied to every staff member of the Sharks, and every fan. Or he may as well have. Just for the record I don’t feel he lied to me.

The two or three words he has ever spoken to me were polite, and he was supporting his supporters. I’m not sure anyone would think he was being polite to everyone at the club at that time. He may have lied to Zappia. He may not have. Zappia may not even know if that is the case yet or not.

Another theory with inconclusive evidence, but the courts won’t be deciding on this one. This is really Zappia’s call, if he feels Bird has lied to him. Ricky Stuart already seems to be backing Bird, but has not really said what he feels should happen if Bird lied to him and/or Zappia. Nor should he say. It is the sort of in house conversation that should be kept in house. As in, it is not my role, or yours (unless you’re reading this Zappia, by the way, hi . Try not to sue me. All of this article is alleged), or any one else’s.

If I may indulge in a little wild speculation (or a little more, some may say), if Zappia feels Bird has lied, he will not be “embarrassed”, he will act in the best interests of the club. He will discipline his wayward star, as he must, but he won’t sack him if it means we lose money, and a rival NRL team gains Bird. Sponsors and the NRL may force his hand or give him some outs, but I’m sure (reasonably) he is thinking of the Sharks long term future.

Speculation from outraged fans (incensed one way or another) are hopefully not going to sway his mind, and probably just adds to his distress at whatever decision he has to make (if Bird has lied, which I’m not saying he has).

Theory 5- Bird is being unfairly targeted.

Possibly. Not all police are as upstanding as we would like them to be (neither are all NRL players, or forum writers), and they may be picking on him with very little reason. But this is really wild speculation, way beyond the scope of any evidence we have seen.

Anyway, that is why we have separate police and judiciary processes in the justice system (yeah, I’ve seen “Law & Order”. Of course, the Australian justice system is not very close to the U.S.A.’s). The media are almost certainly targeting Bird with everything they can, unfairly or not. That is their job, and it is ours to see past their crap.

Rival fans will target Bird. That is also their job. If you think that is unfair, I hope you’ve never booed an opposition player or referee. None of these influences will have any effect on an impartial judicial system, and hopefully not on a partial (to the Sharks) Zappia.

The NRL is so used to dealing with players when 15 times as many rival fans want to see them hung as home fans want to see them saved, that they won’t rush to upset the Sharks. They will try to support Zappia in his decisions. Of course, everyone will go along with a court guilty verdict.

Anyone who wants a guilty verdict when Bird is found innocent in court wants to examine why they are targeting him.

And the last thing I don’t like is bringing the game into disrepute.

Don’t get me wrong here. I don’t feel the game is devastated by bad reputations of players. To a certain degree, I feel that any news is good news for the NRL itself. Most big organisations suffer a fair mix of good and bad publicity, and small organisations would kill for a % of it.

Some will argue that it affects junior development, and mothers don’t want their sons growing up to be thugs like Bird, and kids lose their heroes etc etc. Some of this is probably true, but I’d like to see market research on any of this before coming to any firm conclusions. I’d guess that cultural traditions, demographics, advertising, TV exposure and junior development programs all have as big an influence as bad press.

What I don’t like about disrepute is the notion of disrepute. I’m not sure why the NRL feels the need to control club discipline to the point that they can deregister a player. I understand that other occupations have their version of “disrepute”, but it more correctly a breach of codes of behaviour.

Suspected breaches of codes of behaviour do result in many allegedly normal people being “Stood down” before their behaviour is fully investigated. Sometimes, sadly, this is to protect the employer’s reputation (read- the government’s in many cases), but it is also often to limit risk to other stakeholders.

We probably don’t want police under investigation for corruption, or teacher’s being investigated for inappropriate behaviour with students, to still be working while they are being investigated. Even if the vast majority are usually found innocent, protection of vulnerable stakeholders balanced against fairness to employees requires us to pay those under investigation but keep them away from potential victims. But who are the victims that the NRL is protecting?

“Disrepute” is a ruse. It is a get out clause for clubs to sack a player for entirely internal discipline reasons, and not have that decision hurt them by the player just going somewhere else. Or at least that’s what I thought it was. The only two cases I can think of, involving Latu and Carney, seemed to be like that.

If every club had asked the NRL to invoke disrepute, there would be a lot of players out of the game. Buster would be gone, for one.

What has me worried is that the NRL have looked into having Bird deregistered in Super League as well, if found guilty. If he is guilty of something serious, surely he will do gaol time and struggle to get a passport.

Are we banning all ex-cons from playing top grade NRL and Super League, or is this a bit of hysteria? If he is guilty of something “less serious”, why is he the one to suffer more than others? It reeks, as does all of this, of something fishy. Added to that is the Shark’s standing down of Bird until his day in court (after the Grand Final). All the media commentators agree this is reasonable, since the allegations are so serious.

Gallen wanted to know why Laffranchi could play and Bird couldn’t. Combined with the threat of international deregistration, it adds up to something not quite right, compared to other cases of disrepute, but I can’t figure out what.

It seems like prejudging, which implies they know something about Bird’s guilt that we don’t. But would that really require the NRL and the Sharks to take the actions they have? Particularly the Sharks, if they win a premiership with a player later found guilty of an off field incident, will it hurt them so much? I’m not sure how I’d feel as a Sharks fan about that. But I will be ropable if we lose a grand final by a whisker and he is found innocent. If this is why they have made this decision, they are estimating that it is more likely that a guilty Bird will give us a premiership, than that a missing, innocent Bird will cost us the grand final. That shows a fair bit of confidence in the team I suppose.

Since the club has not been really clear to fans about why Bird is not playing, I can only speculate, but in cases where we are not told everything, I would guess internal politics are at play.

Sponsors, board members, a new boss and a coach growing in stature will all wield different influence, and I can’t possibly know why any or all of these wouldn’t want Bird playing. All I can do is hope they are doing the right thing, and can be open and accountable when the time is right. Oh, and I can stay alert and check that they are open and accountable.

Finally, lest I sound like a whingeing old fart (too late), I should point out what I do like. There is nothing about this incident that I like except maybe Gallen still backing his mate. What I do like, though, is the phenomenal effort every player (Bird included) and club official has put in to get the Sharks to where they are right now.

And I do like the thought of the coming finals series.

And our 2008 premiership.

(a) I was intrigued in the manner you listed your issues.
(b) Get used to the fact that he is gooooooone. Tainted goods.
(c) He is not "God". The fact that we are in the best form/position for years does not rest on one players shoulders but is a culimnation of many factors.
(d) in your reference to the bull**** sentiment about the concerns of the girlfriend i think you are misguided. The fact is someone had a glass smashed in their face and if it happened to a person you knew you would either be happy or sad depending on the relationship. It effects our club so some people would feel compassion and others could care less.
(e) He did dob his mate in. Thats a selfish dog act.
(f) He did bull**** the club. He is an employee of the club and there is a strict code of conduct.
(g) unfairly targeted? I will forget you mentioned that. I will say it's a media fest however.
(h) Bring the game into disrepute? I think with the superleague debacle, salary cap offenses, rugby union defections, walk outs on clubs, gangbangs, drug taking, rapings, alcohol fueled crimes and misconduct etc, has already done a fine job of that. But we all move on, as we have and as we will from this situation. We are on the verge of someting great this season and good riddance to him I say. People through stupid acts compromise not only themselves but innocents around them. Consider the club, the shire, the fans and the community and his team mates. Dog act. Maybe he will play for the Dogs?

There are other factors influencing clubs over disciplinary problems and one of them I feel, is a real reason for fans to get behind it. That reason is performance. I have spoken about it before but I have reassert that as a Sharks fan, I don't want these guys out, especially mid season, smashing themselves up and getting into trouble. It simply doesn't make sense if you really want to win. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Storm are at the top of the league and seem to have no real off-field dramas, whereas clubs like Parramatta and Souths boast all-star lineups and have performed erratically at best with players consistently out of line.

Professionalism is a key element for most succesful sportsmen and women and the NRL seems slow to pick up on this. Look at the Australian Cricket teams response to Symonds behaviour. It may seem over the top but the team have a leadership group of key players who make these decisions. Therefore, Symonds was judged by his peers, not by some pen-pusher and was still held accountable as they realise the importance of the team over the individual.

well said ironshark:cheers

i was hoping between wibble and my diatribe that would be close to the longest post ever.
 
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IronShark

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The phrase "Look before you leap" springs to mind here, Deadly. We don't really know what happened yet and we really don't what's going to happen. He could quite possibly be back and those are some pretty strong statements you have made, which is all well and good, but are you willing to stand by them if he is our star player again next year?
 

DeadlyShark

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I'm sure if Johns had of become a liability as others have he would have been cut loose as well.

retired early so he could stay on the gear.
 
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DeadlyShark

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The phrase "Look before you leap" springs to mind here, Deadly. We don't really know what happened yet and we really don't what's going to happen. He could quite possibly be back and those are some pretty strong statements you have made, which is all well and good, but are you willing to stand by them if he is our star player again next year?

I stand by the club first and foremost. Players come and go, bought and sold. Nothing will change that and nothing will change my passion for the club. i just dont think I could cheer the guy on and we are better served finding another player. He is an excellent player, but in reality I strongly believe he lacks that certain spark which makes champions and i don't think he has the mental faculties or the balls to turn this all around. He is guilty in my eyes of putting himself in the situation, guilty of being selfish and compromising the club and teams hard work, dobbing in his mates, lying to his employee (it wasn't chucking a sickie) etc and all at this crucial time of the year. I think there is a psychological term which eludes me surrounding the fear of success and getting pleasure in other peoples failures. I don't think he has what it takes to be a champion and we certainly don't need him as an ambassador of the club. Too bad for me i guess if he plays but "go sharkies"

Iron Shark: In the scheme of things I don't think he has been our star player. I look at guys like Noddy, Buster and Dougie as our star players.
 

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Jesus f'n christ, post looks interesting but i'd be F'd if I am reading all that...I like dot points, any seconders?

Axe
 

Wibble

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Are you a self funded retiree wibble?
LOL. No Teflon, just been in bed for four days (not as fun as it sounds...). I had plenty of time. Despite my post, I'm not that old, I just seem old to most the people I work with.

There are other factors influencing clubs over disciplinary problems and one of them I feel, is a real reason for fans to get behind it. That reason is performance. I have spoken about it before but I have reassert that as a Sharks fan, I don't want these guys out, especially mid season, smashing themselves up and getting into trouble. It simply doesn't make sense if you really want to win. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Storm are at the top of the league and seem to have no real off-field dramas, whereas clubs like Parramatta and Souths boast all-star lineups and have performed erratically at best with players consistently out of line.
Absolutely, IronShark. Like the Swans "No D*&%$ heads" policy. That is why Canberra made the hard moves on Carney, I'm sure, and an internal discipline policy works well with the NRL disrepute as used in the Carney case. Bird may have been "stood down" for breaking some club policy, but we just don't know. At least Symonds was judged by his peers, had a clear breech of policy that they all abided to, and was not stood down due to public outrage, or suspicion of wrong doing.

i was hoping between wibble and my diatribe that would be close to the longest post ever.
:D We can try

(a) I was intrigued in the manner you listed your issues.
I did imply the order meant something, though mostly it doesn't. My prime concerns are how the Sharks performances will be affected in 2008 and beyond, but all the issues worry me. As well as the Sharks, and Sharks supporters, I hope Bird, Milligan, Zappia, Watson (and their families), the sponsors, the NRL, the police and the judiciary come out OK from this. I don't really care how the media fare. I worry that some rival teams will benefit, even apart from the Sharks being weakened. What particularly intrigued you?

(b) Get used to the fact that he is gooooooone. Tainted goods.
I hope not, hence my worry about the Sharks for 2008 and beyond. But if by tainted goods you mean he is guilty of a serious crime like grevous bodily harm, I hope he is gone as well (and that his gaol time does him some good and he becomes a productive citizen afterwards, which is unlikely in our penal system). Assuming he is guilty.

(c) He is not "God". The fact that we are in the best form/position for years does not rest on one players shoulders but is a culimnation of many factors.
Wouldn't impress me much if he was God. But you are correct that our form and position is a culmination of many factors. One of those being Bird's brilliance as a footballer. That particular factor is now no longer helping us. I hope the rest will do the job. It is certainly an exciting prospect.

(d) in your reference to the bull**** sentiment about the concerns of the girlfriend i think you are misguided. The fact is someone had a glass smashed in their face and if it happened to a person you knew you would either be happy or sad depending on the relationship. It effects our club so some people would feel compassion and others could care less.
I don't think I'd ever be happy about someone getting injured regardless of our relationship, but I get your point. I'd have to be sociopathic to not be sad if someone I cared about was injured. I'm sure Milligan's family and friends are not sociopathic, so I'm sure they care about her more than any other aspect and are worried and sad for her.

I just don't think the vast majority of the other 6 billion or so people on the planet care, nor even the majority of those that know of her recent troubles. We say we care, as we should, because we'd like that no one is hurt, but in a world where everyone is hurt, it is impossible to care enough about enough people. It would be emotional suicide. It doesn't make people cold if they know this, but it does make people illogical if they insist on getting worked up over things that are not connected to them and then this emotional hysteria signifcantly dictates their opinions or actions. But hey, I support a football team I've never played for, and get worked up over them, so maybe a little hysteria is healthy :p

(e) He did dob his mate in. Thats a selfish dog act.
If that is true, assuming his relationship with his mates is (was) similar to the ones I have with my mates, then it is a selfish dog act. Like sleeping around on your partner (again assuming your relationship is like mine with my partner), or shutting your children/grandchildren/parents/siblings etc out of your life for some slight (assuming relationships like the ones I have with those people in my life). There are sadly many people capable of dog acts. They aren't always dogs, and there is no reason to make their lives harder because you don't like them or agree with their actions. Maybe Watson and Bird shouldn't be mates (if Bird did blame Watson). I'm not sure why that should affect Bird's employment.

(f) He did bull**** the club. He is an employee of the club and there is a strict code of conduct.
I hope there is a strict code of conduct (for the reasons IronShark mentioned) and hope he is as subject to it as every other player. If he did lie to the club, then I hope the code of conduct will result in him receiving a fair punishment for that. I feel that missing a grand final win, or being sacked, is a bit harsh for that (on its own), but it is Zappia's call, and trust him to make the right one.

(g) unfairly targeted? I will forget you mentioned that. I will say it's a media fest however.
Which part will you forget? The part where I say it is one theory (that I don't like) that is wildly speculative, or the part where I say the judicial system is independent and will deal with it without bias regardless of unfair targeting?

(h) Bring the game into disrepute? I think with the superleague debacle, salary cap offenses, rugby union defections, walk outs on clubs, gangbangs, drug taking, rapings, alcohol fueled crimes and misconduct etc, has already done a fine job of that.
Agreed, they all contribute, but the game seems to be doing fine.

But we all move on, as we have and as we will from this situation. We are on the verge of someting great this season and good riddance to him I say. People through stupid acts compromise not only themselves but innocents around them. Consider the club, the shire, the fans and the community and his team mates. Dog act. Maybe he will play for the Dogs?
I hope we move on well enough to reach beyond that verge. People through stupid acts cause a lot of destruction to many that they love, including themselves. It is one reason to not take stupid action, but some people stupidly still do.

How those around them deal with those acts forms part of how limited or on going the damage is. The justice system deals with acts so stupid they endanger others for no good reason. It is not perfect, but it is what we have and hopefully will deal with this incident reasonably as well. I hope the club (with input from team mates) have the systems to limit damage from stupid acts from players. As fans, if we rush to conclusions about things where there is not much certain public knowledge, I worry that we perpetrate rather than reduce harm. How will you feel if we lose next year's grand final to the Dogs and Bird is their Clive Churchill medalist?

I disagree about him not having the "spark"- I feel he is an exceptional player, and I believe if he keeps playing, could be the best in the game in the next few seasons. It is only my opinion though, and time will tell on how good he gets. But even if he was contributing as a good, solid worker like Peek or Norrie, many of the issues remain the same (except the media don't get as excited and hence public outrage is reduced). Losing any first grader who is contributing is a loss- and we should have clear reasons why we have that loss.

Sorry pandapat, fishermanaxe (and others). I try to warn that this thread may not be your cup of tea, but thanks for stopping by. The other threads on Bird's incident are much more palatable, and good reads.
 

DeadlyShark

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i can agree to disagree

LOL. No Teflon, just been in bed for four days (not as fun as it sounds...). I had plenty of time. Despite my post, I'm not that old, I just seem old to most the people I work with.


Absolutely, IronShark. Like the Swans "No D*&%$ heads" policy. That is why Canberra made the hard moves on Carney, I'm sure, and an internal discipline policy works well with the NRL disrepute as used in the Carney case. Bird may have been "stood down" for breaking some club policy, but we just don't know. At least Symonds was judged by his peers, had a clear breech of policy that they all abided to, and was not stood down due to public outrage, or suspicion of wrong doing.


:D We can try


I did imply the order meant something, though mostly it doesn't. My prime concerns are how the Sharks performances will be affected in 2008 and beyond, but all the issues worry me. As well as the Sharks, and Sharks supporters, I hope Bird, Milligan, Zappia, Watson (and their families), the sponsors, the NRL, the police and the judiciary come out OK from this. I don't really care how the media fare. I worry that some rival teams will benefit, even apart from the Sharks being weakened. What particularly intrigued you?

I hope not, hence my worry about the Sharks for 2008 and beyond. But if by tainted goods you mean he is guilty of a serious crime like grevous bodily harm, I hope he is gone as well (and that his gaol time does him some good and he becomes a productive citizen afterwards, which is unlikely in our penal system). Assuming he is guilty.

Wouldn't impress me much if he was God. But you are correct that our form and position is a culmination of many factors. One of those being Bird's brilliance as a footballer. That particular factor is now no longer helping us. I hope the rest will do the job. It is certainly an exciting prospect.


I don't think I'd ever be happy about someone getting injured regardless of our relationship, but I get your point. I'd have to be sociopathic to not be sad if someone I cared about was injured. I'm sure Milligan's family and friends are not sociopathic, so I'm sure they care about her more than any other aspect and are worried and sad for her.

I just don't think the vast majority of the other 6 billion or so people on the planet care, nor even the majority of those that know of her recent troubles. We say we care, as we should, because we'd like that no one is hurt, but in a world where everyone is hurt, it is impossible to care enough about enough people. It would be emotional suicide. It doesn't make people cold if they know this, but it does make people illogical if they insist on getting worked up over things that are not connected to them and then this emotional hysteria signifcantly dictates their opinions or actions. But hey, I support a football team I've never played for, and get worked up over them, so maybe a little hysteria is healthy :p

If that is true, assuming his relationship with his mates is (was) similar to the ones I have with my mates, then it is a selfish dog act. Like sleeping around on your partner (again assuming your relationship is like mine with my partner), or shutting your children/grandchildren/parents/siblings etc out of your life for some slight (assuming relationships like the ones I have with those people in my life). There are sadly many people capable of dog acts. They aren't always dogs, and there is no reason to make their lives harder because you don't like them or agree with their actions. Maybe Watson and Bird shouldn't be mates (if Bird did blame Watson). I'm not sure why that should affect Bird's employment.

I hope there is a strict code of conduct (for the reasons IronShark mentioned) and hope he is as subject to it as every other player. If he did lie to the club, then I hope the code of conduct will result in him receiving a fair punishment for that. I feel that missing a grand final win, or being sacked, is a bit harsh for that (on its own), but it is Zappia's call, and trust him to make the right one.

Which part will you forget? The part where I say it is one theory (that I don't like) that is wildly speculative, or the part where I say the judicial system is independent and will deal with it without bias regardless of unfair targeting?

Agreed, they all contribute, but the game seems to be doing fine.


I hope we move on well enough to reach beyond that verge. People through stupid acts cause a lot of destruction to many that they love, including themselves. It is one reason to not take stupid action, but some people stupidly still do.

How those around them deal with those acts forms part of how limited or on going the damage is. The justice system deals with acts so stupid they endanger others for no good reason. It is not perfect, but it is what we have and hopefully will deal with this incident reasonably as well. I hope the club (with input from team mates) have the systems to limit damage from stupid acts from players. As fans, if we rush to conclusions about things where there is not much certain public knowledge, I worry that we perpetrate rather than reduce harm. How will you feel if we lose next year's grand final to the Dogs and Bird is their Clive Churchill medalist?

I disagree about him not having the "spark"- I feel he is an exceptional player, and I believe if he keeps playing, could be the best in the game in the next few seasons. It is only my opinion though, and time will tell on how good he gets. But even if he was contributing as a good, solid worker like Peek or Norrie, many of the issues remain the same (except the media don't get as excited and hence public outrage is reduced). Losing any first grader who is contributing is a loss- and we should have clear reasons why we have that loss.

Sorry pandapat, fishermanaxe (and others). I try to warn that this thread may not be your cup of tea, but thanks for stopping by. The other threads on Bird's incident are much more palatable, and good reads.

(a) THe spark issue...i'm not sold. i dont see his name in any of the top 10 players lists for this season anywhere. But I do see Paul Gallen, Kimmorley, Douglas and Covell
(b) The game seems to be doing fine......it makes me nervous when the media throw ideas out like merging (St-George-Sutherland Sharks) or relocating (Adelaide Sharks) whilst at this point this is just media banter lets hope is not a case of precognition. The banter exists because of the financial issues with Sydney clubs and the ability for cashed up European league and union clubs to rape the player pool and be left with a sub-standard competition. There is just not enough people in Sydney to support all the clubs in reference to the money needed to operate to compete on the world market.

Apart from that..Sweet.:lmao
 
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