Combining NSW & Queensland Cups Into One Competition?

[slide rule]

Well, not exactly, but I think this idea has some merit.

Queensland clubs say Intrust Super Cup comp superior to National Youth Cup

by Steve Ricketts From: The Courier-Mail July 15, 2010 12:01AM

WYNNUM-Manly's 1975 semi-final outfit will hold a reunion on July 25 and no doubt there will be plenty of discussion about the glory days of Brisbane club football.

Back then, the Seagulls provided two players, Lew Platz and John Rhodes, to the Australian side which contested the World Series against England, Wales, New Zealand and France.

Since the Broncos burst on the scene in 1988, the Brisbane clubs, and now their statewide counterparts, have taken a back seat to what has become a national competition.

But that does not mean they are willing to be relegated to the game's backwaters, which is what many club officials have feared since the introduction of the National Youth Cup, or Toyota Cup under-20 competition in 2008.

The NYC, which was opposed from the start by the Queensland clubs, has led to dissatisfaction with the administration of the code in this state.

Club officials believe QRL chairman John McDonald and managing director Ross Livermore did not fight hard enough against the establishment of the NYC, which effectively relegated what is now called the Intrust Super Cup to third-tier status.

The ISC is still of a high standard, as evidenced by the ABC's excellent live coverage. But officials are naturally concerned players who do not get NRL deals after graduating from the NYC will be lost to the code altogether instead of playing for their "local" clubs.

They also believe those youngsters would be better served doing their apprenticeships against men in the Queensland Cup, rather than playing week in, week out against other youngsters, and then not being able to make the step-up to NRL.

The NYC is locked in for another two years, but with television rights set to be renegotiated for 2013 and beyond, the Queensland clubs believe their product would be just as attractive.

In fact, it could be more appealing, given that teenagers come and go and the standard fluctuates accordingly. In the statewide competition, there is more certainty and there is the bonus of NRL players getting a run as they return from injury or suspension, or are dropped.

This year, the likes of Ashton Sims, Adam Mogg, Joe Galuveo, Steve Michaels, Clinton Toopi and Antonio Kaufusi have played ISC.

In an ideal world, the second-tier arrangement would see ISC and NSW Cup sides providing players for the NRL, with the under-20s aligned to state clubs instead of NRL clubs.

There also would be a national crossover at the end of the season with the champion ISC club playing the NSW premiers on NRL grand final day.

Bulldogs star Ben Barba played under-20s in 2008 and NSW Cup last year and said the NSW Cup was much better for his development.

Melbourne Storm stars Greg Inglis, Cameron Smith, Cooper Cronk and Billy Slater graduated from Brisbane Norths before NYC was even on the drawing boards.

The Queensland clubs rest their case.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...tional-youth-cup/story-e6frepbf-1225891785318

I'd go further than that. This what I'd like to see:

The NSW Cup and the QLD Cup to be decided on a first past the post basis. Ie the Minor Premier wins the title.

Then, the top four from each competition play off at the same time as the NRL finals.This would be a fantastic system IMO. It would take the best of both worlds.

Advantages:

-Travel cost would remain relatively low for the clubs throughout the regular season.

-Player travel time would remain low and they would have a better chance of retaining normal employment outside of football.

- More rural teams could be introduced into the NSW Cup and QLD Cup competitions, providing the bush with more meaningful football.

- The NRL Grandfial day would have three national grand finals, not just two. (provided that you keep the U20's which personally, I wouldn't) The standard should also be higher

- The finals matches would be decent for TV.

-"Traditional" clubs could still participate in a meaningful national comp.


Thoughts?

 

[snowman]

i have said i wanted this previously, would be heaps better for development of juniors

 

[Mark^Bastard]

IMO the quality of League comps in Australia goes like this:

1 - NRL
2 - QLD Cup
3 - NYC
4 - NSW Cup

The quality of the QLD cup is high despite things going against it.

I would not want the QLD Cup and NSW Cup to be merged if it meant clubs like the Norths Devils would not have a team in the combined comp etc.

I would rather people try and increase the strength of the NSW Cup than try and chop the QLD cup down to size.

 

[slide rule]

I would not want the QLD Cup and NSW Cup to be merged if it meant clubs like the Norths Devils would not have a team in the combined comp etc.

I would rather people try and increase the strength of the NSW Cup than try and chop the QLD cup down to size.

That's also a reason why I like the idea of keeping the competitions separate until a combined finals series. All the clubs could be retained and more could even be added at an appropriate time without a (relatively) huge amount of additional expense.

You could keep the QLD Cup and it could be ran to suit whatever is best for Rugby League in Queensland. You could have 20 teams if you wanted to.

It would be great for a club like Norths Devlis to be competing in a national comp.

I'd also make it so that it is possible for 2 teams from either NSW or QLD to be playing off against each other for the combined final.

 

[Mark^Bastard]

Yeah fair point, but the QLD teams would absolutely wipe the floor with the NSW teams.

 

[snowman]

Yeah fair point, but the QLD teams would absolutely wipe the floor with the NSW teams.

it happens at all levels of football these days

 

[slide rule]

Yeah fair point, but the QLD teams would absolutely wipe the floor with the NSW teams.

That's fine with me. It might change of they get rid of the 20's though.

 

[Mark^Bastard]

That's fine with me. It might change of they get rid of the 20's though.

Or if they increase the quality of the NSW Cup partly by urging all NSW NRL teams to have NSW Cup as their feeder.

Realy I reckon fixing the NSW Cup is the only thing that needs to happen.

The QLD Cup is fine.

Fix the NSW Cup and increase the age of the NYC by a year or two.

No need to do massive changes.

 

[CrazyMatt]

I doubt the Queenslanders want their comp to merge with ours, their's is good enough as it is. Why would they need NSW teams in it too.

 

[snowman]

more wins

 

[slide rule]

I doubt the Queenslanders want their comp to merge with ours, their's is good enough as it is. Why would they need NSW teams in it too.

It sounds to me like the Queenslanders are the ones that want it. The above article is from the Courier Mail. I guess it's so they can get representation of Grand Final day.

 

[Special K]

teams can't afford nsw cup now so unless the nrl bank rolled it then club like ours will hold this idea back

 

[josh11223344]

that would be so good to watch if they merged the comps they could televise that like they do the english soccer 2 division games.

 

[CrazyMatt]

It sounds to me like the Queenslanders are the ones that want it. The above article is from the Courier Mail. I guess it's so they can get representation of Grand Final day.

Really? That surprises me, their competition is superior to ours in every way, why would they waste their time with the basket case that is the NSW Cup.

 

[slide rule]

Sorry, I didn't explain it properly.

They want to keep the QLD Cup, they just want to play the champion of the NSW Cup on grand final day. I guess Queenslanders just love getting one up on the New South Welshmen.

 

[BUZ]

I'd like to see some thing like the following:

Tier 1 - NRL
Tier 2 - NRL Reserves
-----
Tier 2.5 - State run Cups: eg Intrust Super Cup, NSW Cup, Bartercard Premiership, WARL Cup etc
-----
Tier 3 NYC
Tier 4 ???

********

All NRL Clubs must field 3 teams... One in Tier 1, one in either Tier 2 or 2.5, and one in Tier 3.

It would be OK for NRL Clubs to have their 2nd tier team as part of an amalgamation, or a merge (eg Sharks/Melbourne).

Off the top of my head, I think the only way the third tier could work properly is if the comp consisted of the exact same Clubs as in the NRL first tier.

*********

Tier 2 is where we could have a genuine National Reserve Grade Comp.

Tiers 2, 2.5, and 4 are where future NRL Clubs (expansion) could be groomed.

Have a genuine relegation system for tiers 2, 2.5, and 4, where a Tier 4 team could realisticly aspire to be an NRL Club, and have a genuine path set out for them to achieve that.

Obviously a lot to consider, but I see lots of advantages in having League comps structured in a way that sets a distinct and achievable path to the elite NRL Comp.

TBH, I haven't thought much about the logistics of all this, It's just something off the top of my head... But it does open the door for every NRL fixture to be preceded by two grades... IE every NRL game day in any State or Country, will consist of games played by all three grades.

 

[Fitzy2513]

Tier 1 - 1st grade
Tier 2 - Res grade
Tier 3 - U 23's
Tier 4 - Metro Cup / Qld Cup
Call me old school but I don't know why it was changed cause it was a system that worked.

 

[BUZ]

... Call me old school but I don't know why it was changed cause it was a system that worked.

Is it OK for me to transpose 'old school', with 'common sense'?

 

[A.Snowden]

Tier 1 - 1st grade
Tier 2 - Res grade
Tier 3 - U 23's
Tier 4 - Metro Cup / Qld Cup
Call me old school but I don't know why it was changed cause it was a system that worked.

It should never have changed from that!

 

[Mark^Bastard]

I'd like to see some thing like the following:

Tier 1 - NRL
Tier 2 - NRL Reserves
-----
Tier 2.5 - State run Cups: eg Intrust Super Cup, NSW Cup, Bartercard Premiership, WARL Cup etc
-----
Tier 3 NYC
Tier 4 ???

********

Do you think it's fair that the current Tier 2 competition would be greatly put out by this through no fault of their own?

A national second tier as you've suggested would mean only 3 current QLD Cup sides would exist in the second tier comp and the rest would be relegated to 2.5 tier (whatever that means???)