Are We Becoming the new Western Suburbs Magpies?

[DANGA HATCH]

G'day all, I have been a fan of this great game and our great club since I was a boy. My second favorite team growing up was the Western Suburbs Magpies. As you all know, the Western Suburbs Magpies are now the joint venture club Wests Tigers.

The Maggies ceased to exist as a club in 1999 due to financial difficulty and due to the fact that all of their juniors were swiped by the richer clubs like Manly. They just couldn't seem to hang onto anybody. Their crowd figures were also tiny, Maybe this was because they didn't have a winning culture ( no premiership since 1952 - 47 years)

The reason for raising this is that their story sounds familiar to ours with the exception of the fact that in their history they had won 4 premierships. All the people I speak to, like the Sharks as their next favorite team. We have now been around for 44 years and don't have a winning culture. Our fan base doesn't seem to increasing and now the players we are developing are being snatched by the richer clubs ( there are more of these now!) our crowds are also becoming fewer.

The most critical thing is that we must tie up the juniors, our Toyota Cup players before we recruit anyone else. These guys will get bums on seats and instill the culture that once made this club exciting and a great one to be part of. If statistics are correct, the next 2 to 3 years are critical. Also, Gal can't play forever.

Thoughts?

 

[SHARKSTER]

Gawd, the StGeorge Illawarra Shire Dragons.

I'll be GORN!

 

[Fitzy2513]

Cronulla/Perth Sharks, split the games 50 50 between toyota and Perth. The NRL won't kick us out cause we are expanding the game re: TV rights. Reassess once the development is done. We either come back full time or keep the new francise going.

 

[Born&bred]

We stay where we are and keep struggling until the development comes through.

 

[The Shire]

We stay where we are and keep struggling until the development comes through.

Smartest thing i have heard on this forum.

western suburbs didnt have 11 hectares of land that they owned to develop on.

also its not only that they didnt win a comp in 44 years or whatever its that they came last so many times.

dont forget for our lack of premierships we have only got the spoon twice.

enough on this its not helpful at all.

going to the leagues club now to buy my mum her mothers day present, a sharks jersey hahaha

 

[Sharky Pete]

Cronulla/Perth Sharks, split the games 50 50 between toyota and Perth. The NRL won't kick us out cause we are expanding the game re: TV rights. Reassess once the development is done. We either come back full time or keep the new francise going.

Western Reds will be back soon, Fitzy.

I'd rather us grow our fan base by playing a few more games in Taupo tbh.

The Warriors hardly play out of Auckland and the only time they play at alternate NZ venues is when they play an "away game" against Australian clubs and we can tap into the the lack of untouched areas by the Warriors.

 

[DeathMoth]

financial difficulties...just start developing the absolute **** out of that land! pretty hard to lose with property development.

 

[Weaponhead]

It is a reasonable question, Danga. There is a perception that we are making up the numbers and can't compete. I don't necessarily agree with this but there are plenty of people death riding the club in the media and broader league community. The fact that the hard core supporters on this site even question the possibilities of relocation, folding etc is a strong indication of the doubt that currently sits with our club after a decade of mostly poor results and financial struggles.

Losing key players is not helping the cause and the supporter base desperately needs some good news to maintain momentum after so many disappointments in recent years.

The Believe campaign is very engaging, IMO but some people are starting to waver.

 

[Great White Shark]

Sharkies, we all have to be honest about all this. I am a 30 year supporter of the club (and have been involved in the club in the past). All my children are members, my youngest being 2. I am very depressed about our current situation. Those who were around in the mid 80's would know this is not the same situation largely because we are playing in a 21st century competition where money talks and players do not work as brickies/carpenters/accountants and play footy in the evenings and weekends.
If you look around at the clubs we need to compete against: Newcastle-$10M per year from tinkler, Brisbane/Gold Coast/Melbourne/North Queensland etc-One team city, huge third party deals which we cant compete with (totally defeats the purpose of a salary cap when Darren Lockyer is on the books for $250K...we cant compete with that!!), Parra/Penrith-Huge demographic, leagues club, Souths-Crowe and Holmes-a-court, Roosters-thanks to Packer, Bouris etc, huge sponsorship $$, St George-Strongest brand in the league. In the 80's this was less relevant, now it is how the game is run.
As for the development. For those who have read, the development is part of a bigger restructure. Many things can go wrong. If they do the Sharks WILL be placed in receivership, the land sold to pay off our debts. Even if it does go ahead there are some serious questions still about the redevelopment. Having said that, it is our only hope.
I think this post is a VERY important discussion. For those who care to pull their heads out of the sand you will realise we are like Wests. The most devastating fact is that we cant keep players (snowdan, dougles, mannah?!?, any decent backs)...it is a deathnell.
Would love to hear the opinions of others......and having said all this i will be at shark park next week with my kids.

 

[SF]

I think there are plenty of differences... only one I could be bothered typing on my phone though is the number of pay tv subscribers around the shire, and the fact there is no criteria to force us out

 

[Great White Shark]

i dont really follow your two reasons. TV subscribers?!? and insolvancy is a certain axing from the league (and we were on the brink last year).

 

[kiwishark]

Western Reds will be back soon, Fitzy.

I'd rather us grow our fan base by playing a few more games in Taupo tbh.

The Warriors hardly play out of Auckland and the only time they play at alternate NZ venues is when they play an "away game" against Australian clubs and we can tap into the the lack of untouched areas by the Warriors.

Bring 1 to Whangarei!!!! we had a Warriors trail Vs Burleigh that got a bigger crowd that the Blues Vs Cheetahs Super 14

 

[fancyman]

Jerry Harvey wants to buy the sharks. Lets go in that direction. Since the Tradirs deal fell over the team has failed and the club has been very quiet!

 

[sharkman1964]

Guys with this new state government, they are handing all development decisions back to council. Don’t forget the council were the ones that knocked it back in the first place then it went to the sate government who were the authorising authority so now it sits with council and I doubt it will get though them. So to all hanging there hats on this, I would not hold your breath. Don't forget this land was bought very cheap back in the sixties as it was sold with the proviso it is retained as open space. Otherwise others like Toyota at the time would have snapped it up at a higher price. This club has to think out side the box. I read on other posts on this site, guys stating they would be involved in a buy out of the club, willing to donate each year similar to the Green Bay Packers in the NFL. The only difference is they have over 1 million supports. Maybe it could be done a smaller scale but it needs heaps of media to get that up and running. I honestly am getting to the stage were I can not see a future. Its on the field where it sits if this team can compete and get winning it puts bums on seats. The coaching staff have to make some decisions, they have to chance there arm try things with what we have got. Who knows what could come of it.


if gerry wants to buy I would support him, does anyone Bill Gates

 

[Sharky Pete]

Bring 1 to Whangarei!!!! we had a Warriors trail Vs Burleigh that got a bigger crowd that the Blues Vs Cheetahs Super 14

I'd be open to seeing the club look to New Zealand for some games.

If we're going to take games to other venues, New Zealand would be it.

I'd like to see us take our games against the Cowgirls,Canberra and Melbourne to alternate venues.

 

[Mark^Bastard]

Guys with this new state government, they are handing all development decisions back to council. Don’t forget the council were the ones that knocked it back in the first place then it went to the sate government who were the authorising authority so now it sits with council and I doubt it will get though them. So to all hanging there hats on this, I would not hold your breath. Don't forget this land was bought very cheap back in the sixties as it was sold with the proviso it is retained as open space. Otherwise others like Toyota at the time would have snapped it up at a higher price. This club has to think out side the box. I read on other posts on this site, guys stating they would be involved in a buy out of the club, willing to donate each year similar to the Green Bay Packers in the NFL. The only difference is they have over 1 million supports. Maybe it could be done a smaller scale but it needs heaps of media to get that up and running. I honestly am getting to the stage were I can not see a future. Its on the field where it sits if this team can compete and get winning it puts bums on seats. The coaching staff have to make some decisions, they have to chance there arm try things with what we have got. Who knows what could come of it.


if gerry wants to buy I would support him, does anyone Bill Gates

All, please be aware that this post is completely unfounded and RIDICULOUSLY INCORRECT. I will address this when I have more time later.

 

[Born&bred]

Guys with this new state government, they are handing all development decisions back to council. Don’t forget the council were the ones that knocked it back in the first place

Wrong. The State Government are planning to remove the 3a legislation, but they are not revoking previous approvals.

Secondly, the Shire Council approved our previous development proposal - the club scrapped it as unviable.

 

[sharkman1964]

Wrong. The State Government are planning to remove the 3a legislation, but they are not revoking previous approvals.

Secondly, the Shire Council approved our previous development proposal - the club scrapped it as unviable.

Planning 3A powers have already been removed can not wait to see the drible fed by the Irvine protectors as he has done nothing to better the clubt. Why have things gone so quiet

 

[Born&bred]

Sharkies, we all have to be honest about all this. I am a 30 year supporter of the club (and have been involved in the club in the past). All my children are members, my youngest being 2. I am very depressed about our current situation. Those who were around in the mid 80's would know this is not the same situation largely because we are playing in a 21st century competition where money talks and players do not work as brickies/carpenters/accountants and play footy in the evenings and weekends.
If you look around at the clubs we need to compete against: Newcastle-$10M per year from tinkler, Brisbane/Gold Coast/Melbourne/North Queensland etc-One team city, huge third party deals which we cant compete with (totally defeats the purpose of a salary cap when Darren Lockyer is on the books for $250K...we cant compete with that!!), Parra/Penrith-Huge demographic, leagues club, Souths-Crowe and Holmes-a-court, Roosters-thanks to Packer, Bouris etc, huge sponsorship $$, St George-Strongest brand in the league. In the 80's this was less relevant, now it is how the game is run.
As for the development. For those who have read, the development is part of a bigger restructure. Many things can go wrong. If they do the Sharks WILL be placed in receivership, the land sold to pay off our debts. Even if it does go ahead there are some serious questions still about the redevelopment. Having said that, it is our only hope.
I think this post is a VERY important discussion. For those who care to pull their heads out of the sand you will realise we are like Wests. The most devastating fact is that we cant keep players (snowdan, dougles, mannah?!?, any decent backs)...it is a deathnell.
Would love to hear the opinions of others......and having said all this i will be at shark park next week with my kids.

GWS - respect for your opinion firstly.

We've been broke since day dot, so nothing new there. I wasn't just around in the 80's but in the late 60's as well (albeit a kid then).

Don't misunderstand me here - I've been worrying about our club for as long as I can remember, particularly in recent times. I've also been sweating on something being done with our land for as long as I can remember.

At least that is underway now - there undoubtably will be hiccups and roadblocks, possibly serious ones, along the way, but I'm hopeful that the well credentialled & experienced consortium we've engaged to undertake this will have the knowhow to get past any issues.

I agree that it's a different world now as far as financial backing goes, but it has been for a few years now - and we've still given the comp a good shake from 2008 back.

We'll never be a rich, cheque book team - but if the development gets finalised we have a real chance of being stable and self sufficient. From there, sponsorship would improve, crowds should improve, and as the Shire develops (as it will) our supporter base and relativity to the NRL comp will increase.

I haven't got my head in the sand mate - I look for positives, that's all, and I'm entitled to when I've been a loyal, unwavering supporter since our very first game.

Finally, as for not being able to keep players - what makes anyone here think we're the worst for that - far from it!

We're not gone till we're gone.

Planning 3A powers have already been removed can not wait to see the drible fed by the Irvine protectors as he has done nothing to better the clubt. Why have things gone so quiet

Yes - but previous approvals still stand.

Ah you're an Irvine hater - enough said, but just quietly - who's done better?

 

[samshark]

Guys with this new state government, they are handing all development decisions back to council. Don’t forget the council were the ones that knocked it back in the first place then it went to the sate government who were the authorising authority so now it sits with council and I doubt it will get though them. So to all hanging there hats on this, I would not hold your breath. Don't forget this land was bought very cheap back in the sixties as it was sold with the proviso it is retained as open space. Otherwise others like Toyota at the time would have snapped it up at a higher price. This club has to think out side the box. I read on other posts on this site, guys stating they would be involved in a buy out of the club, willing to donate each year similar to the Green Bay Packers in the NFL. The only difference is they have over 1 million supports. Maybe it could be done a smaller scale but it needs heaps of media to get that up and running. I honestly am getting to the stage were I can not see a future. Its on the field where it sits if this team can compete and get winning it puts bums on seats. The coaching staff have to make some decisions, they have to chance there arm try things with what we have got. Who knows what could come of it.


if gerry wants to buy I would support him, does anyone Bill Gates

You need to do your research before you say such rubbish. Yes the 3A laws are being removed by the new government but NOT ALL of the current applications have been returned to the council. The new government conducted a review of the current applications in and some were sent back to council, some are still being considered and some will proceed under the old 3A process. Fortunately for the sharks our application is in the last category.

As for the current state of affairs, yes it is dire and it seems more on here are starting to realise. The development is a long term project to assure our existance. We wont actually get any income off it for a few years yet. The bigger problem is short term survival. We dont fully compete and are just making up the numbers at the moment. We are losing our best players and no decent first grader in their prime is going to choose to come here. Dont be mistaken, its not a question to consider. We are currently the new Western Suburbs Magpies.

The real question is for how long will we be this way? You can handle hard times if the prospect of better times is around the corner. I just dont know when those better times are going to come. We are coming second last, next year looks bleak. How long can fans hold on?