2023 NRL Round 1 Cronulla Sutherland Sharks vs. South Sydney Rabbitohs @ Points Bet Stadium Saturday 4 March @ 7:35pm

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
28,582
Reaction score
5,074
Location
IN A BAR
I think Hazelton should be a regular first grader, even just on the bench. Breaks up the theme of short nuggety type of forwards we have

I guess we have either different definitions of short/nuggety or of theme?

Hazelton 198cm 116kg
Hunt 192cm 112kg
BHU 191cm 115kg
Rudolf 190cm 106kg
Colquhoun 190cm 106kg
Kaufusi 188cm 114kg
Finucane 188cm 102kg
Graham 186cm 96kg
Williams 184cm 98kg

The second biggest bloke we have would have been preferred to the smallest if fit

Out of my own interest for comparison to team we just played (bold was in squad)

Hazelton 198cm 116kg vs Burgess 196cm 120kg
Hunt 192cm 112kg vs Knight 194cm 106kg
BHU 191cm 115kg vs DSF 192cm 112kg
Rudolf 190cm 106kg vs SMitchell 191cm 118kg
Colquhoun 190cm 106kg vs Arrow 189cm 101kg
Kaufusi 188cm 114kg
vs Moale 186cm 112kg
Finucane 188cm 102kg
vs Murray 184cm 95kg
Graham 186cm 96kg
vs Tatola 183cm 114kg
Williams 184cm 98kg
vs Sele 182cm 102kg

We weighed 631kg vs 660kg. If we had Hunt over Williams and they had Sele over Shaq, 645kg vs 644kg
So the size difference was really we lost a heavy guy and had a light replacement. They lost a light guy and had a heavy replacement.

We put 1127cm on the park, they put 1129cm on the park.

So we did have somewhat of a lighter pack on the field compared to them this game although that was influenced significantly by player availability.

I didn't include either teams 14, McInnes and Taafe although McInnes did spend half an hour in our middle which would have reduced the "average" we had on at a given time, at 177cm and 91kg he was mostly subbed for Finucane. This maybe compounded by their two heaviest playing 90 minutes to our two heaviest 74.

If fit though their 14 would usually be Havili who is 178cm but 106kg, so in two fully fit squads their 14 probably adds some size difference vs ours.

Keen to see healthy Hunt or otherwise Hazleton come in this week for Graham though, I think they have more capacity to impact the game than he does. He fights Finucane, McInnes & Williams for role too much
 

Shortfin Mako

Bull Shark
Joined
Aug 16, 2020
Messages
1,529
Reaction score
607
After hearing Toby talk about how the finals game was haunting them and this game to be a "revenge" game; I was somehow expecting more aggressiveness from our guys and dominate them.
 

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
28,582
Reaction score
5,074
Location
IN A BAR
After hearing Toby talk about how the finals game was haunting them and this game to be a "revenge" game; I was somehow expecting more aggressiveness from our guys and dominate them.

Can't help but think Tatola going down was worse for us than it was good.
Went from thinking we needed revenge to thinking oh they are down a man now, we will be able to win this.

This is where maybe Nicho (in addition to just being better even though Tricky played very well) may have been valuable to help keep us on target.

Our 'leadership' of the likes of Dale, Wade and Cam are all in and out of the game.

Some early wins for Souths (Ilias try stop and forward pass try call) got their tails up and we spent the second half instead of finding our way back into the game we got rattled and played even worse.
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,817
Reaction score
715
Location
Sydney
Yeah that forward pass call was an absolute shocker. Bullshit

And yeah Ron skylarking didn't help either, hopefully he learns from that.
That was fugged, looks like we scored then next minutes he's dropped it and they go down field to score.
 

snowman

Total gronk
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
58,930
Reaction score
2,201
Location
In your head, rent free
That was fugged, looks like we scored then next minutes he's dropped it and they go down field to score.
thats not the most annoying one either

the one where he was 15 meters off his wing and kennedy through the pass, if he was in position he scores untouched

then they come down and score again
 

Milkshark

Great White
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
4,730
Reaction score
516
thats not the most annoying one either

the one where he was 15 meters off his wing and kennedy through the pass, if he was in position he scores untouched

then they come down and score again
I remember that and thought the same thing, winger wasn't in position, would have been a try
 

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
28,582
Reaction score
5,074
Location
IN A BAR
I remember that and thought the same thing, winger wasn't in position, would have been a try
I don't think that was a positional issue exactly, I think that was a timing issue. We have had winger in field sweep out for an overhead pass in the past.
I think Ronnie was where he was supposed to start he just didn't get to where he needed to finish on time.

Have a look where Katoa is standing approx 2.39 into this
 

Milkshark

Great White
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
4,730
Reaction score
516
I don't think that was a positional issue exactly, I think that was a timing issue. We have had winger in field sweep out for an overhead pass in the past.
I think Ronnie was where he was supposed to start he just didn't get to where he needed to finish on time.

Have a look where Katoa is standing approx 2.39 into this
If he miss timed it and that puts him where he shouldn't be, isn't that out of position mate?
 

Wiz

Jaws
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
5,907
Reaction score
1,515
I don't think that was a positional issue exactly, I think that was a timing issue. We have had winger in field sweep out for an overhead pass in the past.
I think Ronnie was where he was supposed to start he just didn't get to where he needed to finish on time.

Have a look where Katoa is standing approx 2.39 into this
and I thought I hated Moylan before watching that highlights video
 

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
28,582
Reaction score
5,074
Location
IN A BAR
If he miss timed it and that puts him where he shouldn't be, isn't that out of position mate?
A semantic argument I guess.
I was just pointing out he (presumably) started where he was supposed to be and effectively ended where he was supposed to be, but ball beat him there.

So my thought is it appears he did not execute his part in the play properly vs what I would call out of position, where he was just never in position.
So for me, I'd call it timing/execution not 'positioning'
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
18,064
Reaction score
1,829
Location
The Ridge!
What I saw in this game was the same thing I have been used to seeing in many a Sharks game.

We take a hit up and get bashed by three guys and get pushed backwards or sideways. We are lucky to make 30-40 metres in our sets.

When the opponents take a hit up, there is always someone else to pass it to for second phase play, or they carry our forwards for a few metres. They make at least 60 if not 70 metres each set.

Our side always seems to get to their 5th tackle very quickly while with other teams it seems to take ages.

I don't know what the solution is or what the other teams are doing better. Is it simply desire?
 

bort

Jaws
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
28,582
Reaction score
5,074
Location
IN A BAR
What I saw in this game was the same thing I have been used to seeing in many a Sharks game.

We take a hit up and get bashed by three guys and get pushed backwards or sideways. We are lucky to make 30-40 metres in our sets.

When the opponents take a hit up, there is always someone else to pass it to for second phase play, or they carry our forwards for a few metres. They make at least 60 if not 70 metres each set.

Our side always seems to get to their 5th tackle very quickly while with other teams it seems to take ages.

I don't know what the solution is or what the other teams are doing better. Is it simply desire?
Sometimes it looks really bad doesn't it. I'm hopeful I am better at remembering the best of their sets and the worst of ours and the difference overall isn't as much as it sometimes seems.

In saying that though if you keep giving up ball in good field position they are gunna run hard at you and if you're getting tackled inside your 20 expect to face increased line speed.
 

Milkshark

Great White
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
4,730
Reaction score
516
What I saw in this game was the same thing I have been used to seeing in many a Sharks game.

We take a hit up and get bashed by three guys and get pushed backwards or sideways. We are lucky to make 30-40 metres in our sets.

When the opponents take a hit up, there is always someone else to pass it to for second phase play, or they carry our forwards for a few metres. They make at least 60 if not 70 metres each set.

Our side always seems to get to their 5th tackle very quickly while with other teams it seems to take ages.

I don't know what the solution is or what the other teams are doing better. Is it simply desire?
I made a post about it last year.

This game is won on momentum. Watch Panthers the past 2 years, they roll over teams straight up the middle. They win the ruck, they win the advantage line, other teams try and slow it down, which just ends up in set restarts. Their halves are continually playing on the front foot due to the momentum their forwards afforded them.

The Sharks don't have momentum and they don't win the advantage line. They are always on the backfoot slogging it out trying to get out of their own half from the easy metres they gave the other team.

We give other teams easy metres by not getting up in their face. We probably give away a good 20 metres a set from this alone. And it's not just metres you give away, you give away momentum. And then by not hitting the advantage line, the other team takes more metres back from us.

My other post today in this thread talks about the same thing.
 

Wiz

Jaws
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
5,907
Reaction score
1,515
What I saw in this game was the same thing I have been used to seeing in many a Sharks game.

We take a hit up and get bashed by three guys and get pushed backwards or sideways. We are lucky to make 30-40 metres in our sets.

When the opponents take a hit up, there is always someone else to pass it to for second phase play, or they carry our forwards for a few metres. They make at least 60 if not 70 metres each set.

Our side always seems to get to their 5th tackle very quickly while with other teams it seems to take ages.

I don't know what the solution is or what the other teams are doing better. Is it simply desire?
Email Fitz this ; you might be onto something
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
7,737
Reaction score
2,119
What I saw in this game was the same thing I have been used to seeing in many a Sharks game.

We take a hit up and get bashed by three guys and get pushed backwards or sideways. We are lucky to make 30-40 metres in our sets.

When the opponents take a hit up, there is always someone else to pass it to for second phase play, or they carry our forwards for a few metres. They make at least 60 if not 70 metres each set.

Our side always seems to get to their 5th tackle very quickly while with other teams it seems to take ages.

I don't know what the solution is or what the other teams are doing better. Is it simply desire?
A little thing I have noticed is how other teams often have someone to push their player with the ball, maintaining momentum. We only seem to help when the 2/3 defenders have already started driving the player back, by which point they make no impact. The early added weight/shove from the hooker or another forward can be really valuable to holt any momentum shift and cause held to be called whilst stationary, rather than when getting driven backwards 5m.

It feels like this same thing happens a bit on our edges. It could be because I watch our games more closely than others, but it feels like we get taken over the sideline more than most sides.
 

Thresher

Jaws
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
24,329
Reaction score
3,093
Location
Melbourne
As soon as we start to assist in the momentum of our players in possession there'll be a new interpretation of the laws.
 

Sutty

Jaws
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
5,439
Reaction score
370
League is kind of complicated.

In this Souths game in particular, the Souths play-the-balls were slow as hell. The problem was that if you have 3 Sharks wrestling the guy down and the 3rd guy just dawdles back into the line, Cook just picks the ball up scoots 10 metres and passes to a forward who then makes another 10 metres.

Alternatively, Wade put a really nice tackle on Moale, cuts him in half. However because he tackled the legs, there is only 1 marker and we don't cover the gap properly in the middle, so Cook just scoots 20 metres.

Now in these two examples a bloke named Brailey was bludging and Cook owns him every time we play against them.
 
Top