2023 NRL General Discussion

[BurgoShark]

In his Sharks playing days Aaron Woods consistently had one of our fastest PTB speeds according to match day stats on NRL.com

Anyone who watches Woods knows that the actual ptb often came after 30 seconds of fighting in the tackle, an eventual held call and him sometimes falling over in the process and having to get himself back to his feet. Then he would give us the "quick ptb"

Aaron Woods fast PTB's gave us plenty of very set and settled opposition defensive lines which were back onside to run into.

When a ref isn't calling held when does the stats guy determine the ptb timer starts? When the tackle is deemed complete? Or when they are actively on their feet attempting to play the ball?

Fast ptb's are misleading in suggesting you are on the front foot from the ruck and have superior momentum - it can but it can also not

The stat is kinda BS

I don't hold this against Woods not wanting to succumb to a tackle although he should understand the rules and how the game works now.

It's a part of the game I don't really like how a player fighting for meters and to not get tackled and get forced to ground gets punished for giving the opposition time to set their line.

On the flip side a ball carrier is rewarded for going straight to ground with no fight or objective to gain additional metres and just concedes a tackle.

When a defender has pulled off a pearler of a grass cutter tackle he has to release almost immediately to avoid being penalized. Better than letting them run up field and score a try though and going high on the attacker is risky especially if it's 1 on 1.

So how does a defensive team deal with all this? Wrestle

And so we have modern NRL with it's focus on quick ptbs over creativity around the ruck with the ball and slowing down the ruck/ptb over making quality tackles in defense

Remember some years ago that NRL become all about just dummy half runs and while it isn't that now it's found it's new crutch

I suppose there are some counter points which may suggest it's all good and there is some balance to this dance

1. Ball carriers giving up a tackle is one less tackle they have in that set and if they didn't make many metres on that carry that is less field position and further they have to travel to get into the oppositions red zone.

However providing the attacking team are earning quick ptb's getting up the other end of the field is not that difficult. 10m rule means the opposition is giving up field position by default every ruck unless they have very good line speed or are able to drag ball carriers back in the tackle so they are not getting over the advantage line.

The fight for field position is something missing in alot of NRL games and use to be a big feature of the game. You really had to earn it and was a battle in itself.

It feels more a side show these days. Every creative play looks like a long range try attempt, not necessarily just trying to get some more space and further up field and go from there or defend it out with field position on your side. These elements are still there yes but I think there is less focus on it. Admittedly this sort of contest can be perceived as dull if it's lacking in line breaks and attacking play but eventually one side is gunna crack or make a mistake.

Now the game is often just played in the 2 opposition red zones. Sometimes there are good games contested in the middle of the field and within both teams 20 metre lines with both teams completing sets in an arm wrestle to get some time near the others try line.

But then other games its just quick ptbs and soft penalties/6 agains gifting teams a march up to your end

2. The ball carrier looking for a 'soft' hitup to concede a tackle and get a quick ptb risks getting dominated in the tackle which gives him the opposite result as defenders slowly peel off.

It's a risk but players running off the back fence arn't guarnated a quick ptb or making extra metres for that matter and can get wrestled and gang tackled as well.

3. Quick ptb's result in more errors - see Cam McInnes. Also not having a dummy half ready....

So there you have it, a real battle of space and time. Rugby League is glorious in its complex simplicity.

This is why NRL coaches don’t care about the publicly available ptb stats. They mean nothing.

What the coaches want to see is whether they are winning the tackle. Things like the ratio of 1-on-1 vs 2-on-1 vs 3-on-1 tackles, or whether the player was held standing up, on his belly, or on his back.

Only on hit-ups too. If BHU dives on a grubber 1m out, 3 blokes lay on him and gets a slow ptb, that doesn’t say anything about his effectiveness as a front rower.

 

[Gumby]

Besides Nicho does anyone here think anyone else in our squad will be apart of the origin squads?

Only bloke I see being a stretch would be Talakai. But after his performances last year I don’t see him getting a call up again.

 

[Western Sharkie]

Besides Nicho does anyone here think anyone else in our squad will be apart of the origin squads?

Only bloke I see being a stretch would be Talakai. But after his performances last year I don’t see him getting a call up again.

No

 

[Gumby]

Butcher looking at 1 week for his ‘hip drop’ tackle.

Dale got 3.

 

[Western Sharkie]

Butcher looking at 1 week for his ‘hip drop’ tackle.

Dale got 3.

Neither should have got anything TBH

 

[Gumby]

Neither should have got anything TBH

Agreed mate. Games turning into netball. Seriously what are these blokes supposed to do? Just let them go and run off to score?

 

[Milkshark]

Precedent set, should get same as Dale

 

[MrDravid]

Butcher looking at 1 week for his ‘hip drop’ tackle.

Dale got 3.

Both were grade 2, Dale has priors

 

[Capital_Shark]

Both were grade 2, Dale has priors

You answered that just the other day, didn't you?

Obviously more fun for some pretending we got a raw deal & the other team got off lightly.

 

[HaroldBishop]

Looks like the Tigers got the 2 against the bye. Tim and Bunji doing good!.

 

[Western Sharkie]

Looks like the Tigers got the 2 against the bye. Tim and Bunji doing good!.

From all reports it was a close call but they managed to just edge past late in the round for the 2 points

Bunji was pleased apparently

 

[Thresher]

I can see Benji storming out of post-match pressers when his time comes

 

[andrew's_sharks]

I can actually see Benji as a reasonable coach. I am just not convinced he is doing the right apprenticeship. It is also hard to see them moving forward whilst paying Brooks so much.

If you think you could pay someone like Tricky half of what he is on and then buy another player and they would both do a better job.

 

[MrDravid]

I can actually see Benji as a reasonable coach. I am just not convinced he is doing the right apprenticeship. It is also hard to see them moving forward whilst paying Brooks so much.

If you think you could pay someone like Tricky half of what he is on and then buy another player and they would both do a better job.

Sheens should have offloaded Brooks during the off-season and kept Hastings (although reports are that Bateman doesn't like Hastings).

Add losing Doueihi to that, hard to see Sheens making a change.

 

[andrew's_sharks]

Sheens should have offloaded Brooks during the off-season and kept Hastings (although reports are that Bateman doesn't like Hastings).

Add losing Doueihi to that, hard to see Sheens making a change.

Yeah completely agree. Even if they got 400k for Brooks if you can buy a young up and coming half at least you can build towards your future. They are just wasting time and money persisting with him.

 

[stormshark]

I can actually see Benji as a reasonable coach. I am just not convinced he is doing the right apprenticeship. It is also hard to see them moving forward whilst paying Brooks so much.

If you think you could pay someone like Tricky half of what he is on and then buy another player and they would both do a better job.

It's not the right apprenticeship. Neither he nor Farrah have Coached at Repside type level, to the best of my knowledge. Pairing with a Guy way out of date just compounds their lack of Coaching Experience. Both should've had control of an SG Ball/Flegg side for a min 2/3 yrs imho then risen to Seniors assistant if proven..

 

[Western Sharkie]

It's not the right apprenticeship. Neither he nor Farrah have Coached a Repside type level, to the best of my knowledge. Pairing with a Guy way out of date just compounds their lack of Coaching Experience. Both should've had control of an SG Ball/Flegg side for a min 2/3 yrs imho then risen to Seniors assistant if proven..

1,000,000%
Could not agree more

 

[Sparkles]

I can actually see Benji as a reasonable coach. I am just not convinced he is doing the right apprenticeship. It is also hard to see them moving forward whilst paying Brooks so much.

If you think you could pay someone like Tricky half of what he is on and then buy another player and they would both do a better job.

Maybe... it'll help if he's surrounded by a harem of decent assistants. I imagine his would have to be more of a Head Coach type role, but that's almost worse

 

[Proud Shark]

We have a run of very winnable games coming up. Dogs (A), Cows(H), Dolphins(Magic), Manly(A), Knights(H) leading into our second bye.

If we're going to be a chance at top 4, we need to really get on the back of the roosters performance and show up in defence over these 5 weeks. Dolphins and Manly in particular will test us, with both sitting close to us on the ladder. If we can get a run going, we'll have great momentum heading into Broncos then Storm on the back of the bye.

 

[Tatus]

Magic round is probably the best time to play the dolphins (unless it's our home game) the crowd hopefully won't be as two-headed as it usually is.