2022 NRL General discussion

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Sevshark

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Looks like Sione and Ronny will be marking up against each other this weekend.

Do we finally see the debate settled?
 
CrazyMatt

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egg said:
I understand why , wonder how they will go .

As it stands, the Dolphins have signed a number of quality players but have approached the NRL asking for permission to approach players prior to November 1, when off-contract players can negotiate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nrl/comments/vjceoo
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They can **** off with that request. That isnt fair to everyone else.
 
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burgess1978

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CrazyMatt said:
They can **** off with that request. That isnt fair to everyone else.
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A lot of discussion lately around whether or not is is “fair” on an expansion team to have a level playing field. Sam cap, same rules around approaching players etc.

Is is fair on the Dolphins to have less than 12 months to assemble a team with no concessions from the league?
 
CrazyMatt

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burgess1978 said:
A lot of discussion lately around whether or not is is “fair” on an expansion team to have a level playing field. Sam cap, same rules around approaching players etc.

Is is fair on the Dolphins to have less than 12 months to assemble a team with no concessions from the league?
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Sure is. There were plenty of players off contract for the 2023 season for them to fill a team, not all of them stars mind you but so what?

One thing i hated about the AFL expansion was the extra help they gave GWS Giants with salary cap concessions and extra priority draft picks, they ended up making the grand final a few years after their entry, but did they get there on a level playing field? No.
 
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CrazyMatt said:
Sure is. There were plenty of players off contract for the 2023 season for them to fill a team, not all of them stars mind you but so what?

One thing i hated about the AFL expansion was the extra help they gave GWS Giants with salary cap concessions and extra priority draft picks, they ended up making the grand final a few years after their entry, but did they get there on a level playing field? No.
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I’m not sure where I stand on it tbh.

As a fan of another team, I wouldn’t like seeing another team given an advantage. For the long term good of the game though, having a shithouse expansion team in your town doesn’t make kids want to play footy.

It probably doesn’t make much difference for one guy. We all know that players/agents/clubs ignore the rules around the dates anyway. I could see a situation though where a high profile players says “I am keen, but I want to see you build the team a bit more before I commit.” In that case you could see it being beneficial to have a few more signings in the bag before 1 Nov hits.
 
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CrazyMatt said:
Sure is. There were plenty of players off contract for the 2023 season for them to fill a team, not all of them stars mind you but so what?

One thing i hated about the AFL expansion was the extra help they gave GWS Giants with salary cap concessions and extra priority draft picks, they ended up making the grand final a few years after their entry, but did they get there on a level playing field? No.
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Hard to be successful if you don't have any stars! Need a new team to have some prospect of finding some wins in early years and not just being drilled into the ground.
Hard for new fans to get behind a team with no stars too.

GWS also didn't have the 'level playing field' of existing for decades beforehand.

I don't mind The getting a little bit of help to at least try and come in as not a clear spoon contender.

I don't think the chance to negotiate for 2024 5 months early is a huge advantage. Players current team can still negotiate and they can also still hold out until November. And if managers think it's in their best interest they will leak anything to other clubs anyway. If they mention to another club what offers they are looking at the another club says ' oh shame we can't negotiate yet, we'd certainly offer more than that' then it makes no difference anyway.

Just like the players who were off contact for next year still by the time they were admitted into comp there is absolutely no guarantee those players will sign with The.

Only so much resources they can dump into those 2024 players too, still need to sign a full team and min spend on cap for 2023. Hard to do that and still leave a manageable cap position to bring in more than 1 or 2 stars the next year (without a heap of 1 year contracts)
 
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burgess1978 said:
I’m not sure where I stand on it tbh.

As a fan of another team, I wouldn’t like seeing another team given an advantage. For the long term good of the game though, having a shithouse expansion team in your town doesn’t make kids want to play footy.
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They’re not necessarily going to be shithouse and even if they are for the first few years while they find their feet, who cares? New teams dont have to be on par with the very best in the league from the outset, especially if they need the leagues help to do it.
 
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bort said:
Hard to be successful if you don't have any stars! Need a new team to have some prospect of finding some wins in early years and not just being drilled into the ground.
Hard for new fans to get behind a team with no stars too.

GWS also didn't have the 'level playing field' of existing for decades beforehand.

I don't mind The getting a little bit of help to at least try and come in as not a clear spoon contender.

I don't think the chance to negotiate for 2024 5 months early is a huge advantage. Players current team can still negotiate and they can also still hold out until November. And if managers think it's in their best interest they will leak anything to other clubs anyway. If they mention to another club what offers they are looking at the another club says ' oh shame we can't negotiate yet, we'd certainly offer more than that' then it makes no difference anyway.

Just like the players who were off contact for next year still by the time they were admitted into comp there is absolutely no guarantee those players will sign with The.

Only so much resources they can dump into those 2024 players too, still need to sign a full team and min spend on cap for 2023. Hard to do that and still leave a manageable cap position to bring in more than 1 or 2 stars the next year (without a heap of 1 year contracts)
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That’s completely irrelevant to whether or not they had on field success in their first few years. You dont win games in the present with ‘history’. GWS were given an unfair leg up and the results showed themselves when they were carried into the Grand Final by their large number of high draft picks, players they wouldnt of signed if they had the same cap as everyone else and players acquired by trading those draft picks they shouldnt of had.

A new team doesnt have to be among the best in the league straight out the gate. Also if certain Redcliffe locals refuse to get behind the team because they dont have the patience to let the team find its feet then would you really want them as fans. I reckon most of the locals are going to back them no matter what so I think they’ll be fine in the rusted on fans department. They show patience they’ll be rewarded with their own homegrown stars that come through into the team in coming years.
 
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CrazyMatt said:
They’re not necessarily going to be shithouse and even if they are for the first few years while they find their feet, who cares? New teams dont have to be on par with the very best in the league from the outset, especially if they need the leagues help to do it.
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Who cares? Me.

The Titans being bad makes some of the catchments around here second class citizens in terms of junior development. The NRL puts no money in to it (seriously, zero), the Broncos pour mountains of resources in to other areas, and about 30 clubs and schools around me all fight over when we can have our 1 hour per year of Michael Hancock.

When the Titans were good, you had to beat them off with a stick. There were Titans guys at every school thing, running club clinics etc. now it’s a ghost town because the Titans are spooners with no money and the Broncos don’t give 2 fucks about us.

Another strong team in SEQ with resources and some level of on-field success will be a very good thing for Rugby League in the specific place where I live. If the Dolphins are a shitshow, it will do nothing.
 
CrazyMatt

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burgess1978 said:
Who cares? Me.

The Titans being bad makes some of the catchments around here second class citizens in terms of junior development. The NRL puts no money in to it (seriously, zero), the Broncos pour mountains of resources in to other areas, and about 30 clubs and schools around me all fight over when we can have our 1 hour per year of Michael Hancock.

When the Titans were good, you had to beat them off with a stick. There were Titans guys at every school thing, running club clinics etc. now it’s a ghost town because the Titans are spooners with no money and the Broncos don’t give 2 fucks about us.

Another strong team in SEQ with resources and some level of on-field success will be a very good thing for Rugby League in the specific place where I live. If the Dolphins are a shitshow, it will do nothing.
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Who says the Dolphins are going to be a shitshow if they dont make the finals in their first few years? As for the Titans, well them being a basket case isn’t necessarily just because they’re first grade team started struggling, that whole club needs an overhaul from top to bottom, they’ve been making some boneheaded decisions at the admin level for years now and its biting them in the arse. Mistakes that the Dolphins might not repeat regardless of how well they do on field, if they’ve got half a brain.
 
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burgess1978 said:
A lot of discussion lately around whether or not is is “fair” on an expansion team to have a level playing field. Sam cap, same rules around approaching players etc.

Is is fair on the Dolphins to have less than 12 months to assemble a team with no concessions from the league?
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Not really, no.
My two cents... I think it's reasonable that they receive some concessions to set the team up.
Extra time to negotiate just seems reasonable.
Additional relocation funds to incentive players to move might be a nice touch.
I wouldn't look at a salary cap boost, as that'll just cause issues later (for whoever follows Bennett... as usual!). Perhaps the NRL chips in a little on salaries to help get ex-locals back into the area (I'm doing my best for you here, Toby).
It's up to them from there, possibly outside of ensuring of funding for great facilities to help grow the game in their area, for the good of the game in general.
 
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CrazyMatt said:
Who says the Dolphins are going to be a shitshow if they dont make the finals in their first few years? As for the Titans, well them being a basket case isn’t necessarily just because they’re first grade team started struggling, that whole club needs an overhaul from top to bottom, they’ve been making some boneheaded decisions at the admin level for years now and its biting them in the arse. Mistakes that the Dolphins might not repeat regardless of how well they do on field, if they’ve got half a brain.
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Fair points mate. We need a stable/financial club putting time and money in to this area, and the Dolphins can be that while still hovering mid-pack for a few years.

Having thought about it, I think the NRL should make a concession by funding all alcohol purchases for spectators at Dolphins Stadium in years 1-3.
 
HaroldBishop

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CrazyMatt said:
That’s completely irrelevant to whether or not they had on field success in their first few years. You dont win games in the present with ‘history’. GWS were given an unfair leg up and the results showed themselves when they were carried into the Grand Final by their large number of high draft picks, players they wouldnt of signed if they had the same cap as everyone else and players acquired by trading those draft picks they shouldnt of had.

A new team doesnt have to be among the best in the league straight out the gate. Also if certain Redcliffe locals refuse to get behind the team because they dont have the patience to let the team find its feet then would you really want them as fans. I reckon most of the locals are going to back them no matter what so I think they’ll be fine in the rusted on fans department. They show patience they’ll be rewarded with their own homegrown stars that come through into the team in coming years.
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Yep. GWS was given an unbelievable leg up but the difference is they were set up in a non-AFL state despite the Swans success.

The Dolphins are well and truly in RL heartland. They've had enough time to sign players.
 
HaroldBishop

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burgess1978 said:
Fair points mate. We need a stable/financial club putting time and money in to this area, and the Dolphins can be that while still hovering mid-pack for a few years.

Having thought about it, I think the NRL should make a concession by funding all alcohol purchases for spectators at Dolphins Stadium in years 1-3.
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Almost enough to make a Sharks' fan turn!
 
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