Official Nicho Hynes

bort · Oct 2, 2023

Super Impose said:
Most locks just pass the ball as the link man now - it doesn’t have to be that way - but it is fact ..

Cam Murray is an awesome player - even he did too much of this - partly because his half back is so very limited ..

How accurate is this?

Lock runs possessions (I'll get to this)
Here they are in order of most to least average runs per game

Carrigan 13 16
Gilbert 13 16
Hopgood 12 20 (38)
Harris 12 27 (36)
Horse 12 20 (34)
Yeo 11 36 (34)
Cotter 11 17
Elliot 11 22
King 11 14 (35)
McInnes 10 23 (35)
Finucane 10 14
Tevaga 10 12
Jurbo 10 25 (37)
Murray 9 26 (37)
De Belin 9 22 (38)
Pole 9 11
Radley 8 30 (36)

Bolded are the ones who run the ball less than half as much as they have possessions.

Too time consuming to do more accurately and be more concrete about stats only playing lock but I think most of these guys would be considered locks primarily last season. About half pass more than they run.

Other than Yeo and Radley, Murray was one of the most prolific passers from lock. Quite a few locks run plenty still though.

The bracketed number beside 10 of them is the top 10 per game number of tackles for this group - decent correlation that the guys who make more tackles are more likely to pass than run at a higher rate. Perhaps some consideration that locks who tackle more are less likely to take hitups, or locks who play more as a link man have more energy to take a greater defensive workload?

BurgoShark · Oct 2, 2023

bort said:
How accurate is this?

Lock runs possessions (I'll get to this)
Here they are in order of most to least average runs per game

Carrigan 13 16
Gilbert 13 16
Hopgood 12 20 (38)
Harris 12 27 (36)
Horse 12 20 (34)
Yeo 11 36 (34)
Cotter 11 17
Elliot 11 22
King 11 14 (35)
McInnes 10 23 (35)
Finucane 10 14
Tevaga 10 12
Jurbo 10 25 (37)
Murray 9 26 (37)
De Belin 9 22 (38)
Pole 9 11
Radley 8 30 (36)

Bolded are the ones who run the ball less than half as much as they have possessions.

Too time consuming to do more accurately and be more concrete about stats only playing lock but I think most of these guys would be considered locks primarily last season. About half pass more than they run.

Other than Yeo and Radley, Murray was one of the most prolific passers from lock. Quite a few locks run plenty still though.

The bracketed number beside 10 of them is the top 10 per game number of tackles for this group - decent correlation that the guys who make more tackles are more likely to pass than run at a higher rate. Perhaps some consideration that locks who tackle more are less likely to take hitups, or locks who play more as a link man have more energy to take a greater defensive workload?

Cheers for that.

Another interesting thing would be to see this beside the fullbacks they played with. E.g. I’d expect the Cowboys middles to pass less because their fullback plus like a half, but I’d expect anyone playing with Tracey or Brimson to pass a lot more.

I do think @Super Impose is downplaying the role of the locks here though. Some of these guys are playing like “halfback of the forwards” rather than just shovelling it to their half. They are just as likely to put a forward through a hole as they are to send it out the back.

Super Impose · Oct 2, 2023

BurgoShark said:
Cheers for that.

Another interesting thing would be to see this beside the fullbacks they played with. E.g. I’d expect the Cowboys middles to pass less because their fullback plus like a half, but I’d expect anyone playing with Tracey or Brimson to pass a lot more.

I be think @Super Impose is downplaying the role of the locks here though. Some of these guys are playing like “halfback of the forwards” rather than just shovelling it to their half. They are likely to put a forward through a hole as they are to send it out the back.

Fair enough - I think some of my frustration is super coach related but as mentioned - I admire Cameron Murray as the best #13 in the game - but think he over does it at times .

Your point about fullbacks is a good one - and linked to my comment about Cam’s half back - who to be as kind as possible - is extremely limited …

BurgoShark · Oct 3, 2023

Super Impose said:
Fair enough - I think some of my frustration is super coach related but as mentioned - I admire Cameron Murray as the best #13 in the game - but think he over does it at times .

Your point about fullbacks is a good one - and linked to my comment about Cam’s half back - who to be as kind as possible - is extremely limited …

Haha - so SuperCoach doesn't fully reflect the nuances of a player's value to his team? I'm shocked.

I think it is all about the role the coach wants these guys to play. Latrell and Teddy don't get that space out the back without Murray and Radley holding defenders in the middle. It's also why I think lock tends to be a position where the coach puts his most "well rounded" player. That guy has to have a bit of everything to his game. The best locks in the NRL are 95-100kg blokes who can pass as well as your spine players, defend better than your second rowers, and a tough as nails and fit as ****.

Swap any lock with his halfback and I know which will do a better job in the other guy's jumper.

HaroldBishop · Oct 3, 2023

Some in here said this bloke was a better halfback than Cleary not so long ago.

Wiz · Oct 3, 2023

HaroldBishop said:
Some in here said this bloke was a better halfback than Cleary not so long ago.

Lol. Watching the grand final reminded me how much of a rubbish halfback he is

Stick him at 6 and get the genius coach to stop listening to him wanting to be the man, if you can’t kick and pull strings to control your team around the park then an elite halfback is something he’ll never be.

He either needs to pipe down and stick to basics or move and let someone else do that part. It’s quite simple

Proud Shark · Oct 3, 2023

HaroldBishop said:
Some previous forum members said this bloke was a better halfback than Cleary not so long ago.

FTFY

djhabib · Oct 3, 2023

HaroldBishop said:
Some in here said this bloke was a better halfback than Cleary not so long ago.

The loudest voices in the room are usually the ones with no idea

MrDravid · Oct 3, 2023

Wiz said:
Lol. Watching the grand final reminded me how much of a rubbish halfback he is

Stick him at 6 and get the genius coach to stop listening to him wanting to be the man, if you can’t kick and pull strings to control your team around the park then an elite halfback is something he’ll never be.

He either needs to pipe down and stick to basics or move and let someone else do that part. It’s quite simple

Save for the 40/20, I thought Cleary's kicking game was pretty ordinary... it was his running game that tore them to shreds.

HaroldBishop · Oct 3, 2023

MrDravid said:
Save for the 40/20, I thought Cleary's kicking game was pretty ordinary... it was his running game that tore them to shreds.

Agree, definitely some uncharacteristic kicks from him. That's pretty rare though.

BurgoShark · Oct 3, 2023

MrDravid said:
Save for the 40/20, I thought Cleary's kicking game was pretty ordinary... it was his running game that tore them to shreds.

It was a quite underwhelming performance from Cleary all around for about 55-60 minutes. Some poor kicks, some awful 5th tackle options, and he had defensive errors in 3 of the Broncos 4 tries.

Jesus did he put the team on his back in the final 20 though.

bort · Oct 3, 2023

MrDravid said:
Save for the 40/20, I thought Cleary's kicking game was pretty ordinary... it was his running game that tore them to shreds.

Cleary a running 5/8 confirmed

Gards · Oct 3, 2023

HaroldBishop said:
Some in here said this bloke was a better halfback than Cleary not so long ago.

For a few months in 2022 it wasn't an unreasonable statement

BurgoShark said:
It was a quite underwhelming performance from Cleary all around for about 55-60 minutes. Some poor kicks, some awful 5th tackle options, and he had defensive errors in 3 of the Broncos 4 tries.

Jesus did he put the team on his back in the final 20 though.

There is a theory that Luai going off injured actually helped the Panthers with the ball

It also forced Cleary to step up and take more control and responsibility, do more running, ect.

I assume Cogger came on at this time and partnered Cleary in the halves but it was Nathan that seemed to be the one making everything happen

Proud Shark · Oct 3, 2023

Gards said:
For a few months in 2022 it wasn't an unreasonable statement

There is a theory that Luai going off injured actually helped the Panthers with the ball

It also forced Cleary to step up and take more control and responsibility, do more running, ect.

I assume Cogger came on at this time and partnered Cleary in the halves but it was Nathan that seemed to be the one making everything happen

It also seemed that Tago got hooked, and that side seemed to leak less. Could just be coincidental with the tide turning in Penriths favour and them having to defend less though.

Gal The Goat · Oct 3, 2023

Gards said:
There is a theory that Luai going off injured actually helped the Panthers with the ball

It also forced Cleary to step up and take more control and responsibility, do more running, ect.

I assume Cogger came on at this time and partnered Cleary in the halves but it was Nathan that seemed to be the one making everything happen

I’ve seen a fair few people say this, and just to the eye live I have to agree with it

Yeo was also off for a while around that period which looked like Cleary just got the ball straight away a lot more.

Ive only seen the game once though I’m actually looking forward to watching the game again soon.

Super Impose · Oct 3, 2023

The 15 minute ‘rest ‘ that both Yeo and Sorro got - also helped them in the last 10 - but Cleary owned it completely ..

BurgoShark · Oct 3, 2023

Gards said:
There is a theory that Luai going off injured actually helped the Panthers with the ball

It also forced Cleary to step up and take more control and responsibility, do more running, etc.

So the primary ballplayer demanded more ball, more responsibility, and it had positive results?

Must have been an accident, because surely Ivan knows that this isn't the way teams are supposed to play

Wiz · Oct 3, 2023

BurgoShark said:
So the primary ballplayer demanded more ball, more responsibility, and it had positive results?

Must have been an accident, because surely Ivan knows that this isn't the way teams are supposed to play

Yep.

such a shame that Hynes can’t pull the same positive results when he does the exact same thing

Proud Shark · Oct 3, 2023

Wiz said:
Yep.

such a shame that Hynes can’t pull the same positive results when he does the exact same thing

Maybe he could with the same support cast

bort · Oct 3, 2023

BurgoShark said:
So the primary ballplayer demanded more ball, more responsibility, and it had positive results?

Must have been an accident, because surely Ivan knows that this isn't the way teams are supposed to play

Let's face it mate
Hynes is not Nathan Cleary - just something we have to accept. We can't win a Premiership with an ADHD deer in the headlights like him. Constantly trying to put the team on his back when we need something to happen.
Already in his second season as a starting NRL half and nothing to show for it.

Nathan on the other hand, in what I assume was his 4th season, has four consecutive Grand Finals appearances including 3 wins.

Nicho has 46 starts at halfback now, by the time Cleary had 46 starts at halfback he had already 63% win to Nicho's embarrassing 67%.

Smart judges can see here there is very little in our future if we persist with 'the Nicho Hynes experiment'

Yes, I know they aren't fair direct comparisons, I just think the doomsaying about where we are at is a bit much.
Nicho older, and Nathan for sure ahead of him, but even with new contract Nicho is on 200k less - spend that wisely we can close the gap. Nicho has plenty of ceiling yet to reach

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