Go-forward So Far For Season 2011

[Jasonstevenswedgie]

I have compiled a list of our go forward for the season so far:
figures given are avg metres/ hit up ( in order of hightest to lowest)

Vave 10.1
Mannah 8.7
Douglas 8.6
Snowden 8.4
Gallen 8.37
Wright 8.24
Bakuya 8.09
Tautai 7.97 (9.8 at prop)
Cordoba 7.8
Smith 7.44
Toupo 7.28

Gallen has avgd over 20 hit-ups a game so far this season.
From this we can see that Toupo and Smith are impact players that need to play limited minutes And that if we resign Vave and Mannah we have 2 good youg props for next year.
Even though we have a Good starting pack that can play alot of minutes, they still get tired and around that 25 minute mark teams just march doen the field.

We need to share the work-load around so that we are always fresh and on top, as our forward pack is our stongest assest. My suggestion is

8. Gallen (65min)
9. Morris (80min)
10. Douglas (45min)
11. Wright (40min)
12. Bakuya (65min)
13. Smith (45min)

14. snowden (40min)
15. Vave (35min)
16. Mannah (25min)
17. Toupo (40min)

This only leaves Gallen & Bakuya playing mor than 30 minutes of footbal straight. Most players will play no more than 15-20min with-out a sub or half-time.

Subs would be as follows:

15min: Snowden on, gallen off
15min: Vave on, Douglas off
25min: Toupo on, Wright off
30min: Mannah on, Vave off
30min: Snowden off, Douglas on
30min: Smith off, Gallen on
Half time
55min: Mannah off, Snowden on
60min: Douglas off, Vave on
65min: Toupo off, Smith on
65min: Bakuya off, Wright on

Then for the backs i would have
1. Gardner
2. Best ( will help mills develop defensively)
3. Mills ( has a proven combo with townsend)
4. Graham ( can bust a tackle but can also hit holes)
5. Wright ( comtinue to develop him, maybe get him to run some of the inside balls they try and give Gardner)
6. Kelly
7. Townsend ( Needs to be developed for the future)

 

[Master Sharky]

Wow, you have too much time on your hands bro. Lol

Great info though, cheers!

 

[sharks2010]

stats man
dont agree with the subs

 

[Blix]

The only problem with stats like those are that you cant compare the metres per hitup for the first 20 minutes when people are fresh, to at the end of each half.

Also the 1st and 2nd hitup's in a set will most likely be taken by props & will be against a more set line, than later on in the tackle count it will be by the smaller forwards with more room to move.

The whole point being is that comparing props to second rowers, doesnt really work, even comparing props when one takes the first hitup more often than the other is hard as well.

 

[sharks2010]

yeah stats can be very misleading

 

[DANGA HATCH]

Great post mate. Your stats show that all is not lost for our future. I have thought that Toupo should be impact and I am glad you have one hooker playing 80 mins! We have to keep being positive

 

[sharks2010]

i don't like a 80 minute number 9
we need someone like degwah to come on to add spark when the opposition defense is tiring

 

[SF]

Tupou

 

[DANGA HATCH]

i don't like a 80 minute number 9
we need someone like degwah to come on to add spark when the opposition defense is tiring

Mate do you agree with playing Flanagan off the bench each week for 15 minutes a game? He is absolutely a wasted sub. We should have someone with x factor coming off the bench. I would hate to be Flanagan, he must have played two full games this year if you add up all his numbers. How can a bloke that plays so little footy every week gain any type of form? This is where the interchange is so crap and the two hooker rotation is the worst use of a replacement. Look at Cameron Smith at Melbourne and for Queensland. He plays the whole game and look at how well they are doing.

The two hooker policy is rubbish and is a hangover from the Ricky Stuart days, take a look at the confusion caused in origin 1. He just mucks around with them all the time and I am afraid that his protege is doing the same this year.

 

[sharks2010]

no i dont agree with that
we need a hooker who can play in the forwards. like young does
and what ricky did in origin worked well

 

[ABshark]

I love how people use Cameron Smith as an example when making this case. Trust me, if we had Cameron Smith or someone of his calibre as our hooker then he would be there for 80mins.

The tradeoff is really whether you want an extra backrower- who would probably play 20mins at most- or the spare hooker. We've got backrowers who play big minutes as it is, do we need another one? Also, having Morris and one of the other hookers in the 17 gives us cover for pretty much every position. What happens when we carry that extra forward- say Frizell- and Morris goes down injured. Who plays hooker? Smith? Gal? Stapleton???

That said, I would like Kose Lelei to get a run in the #17 sooner rather than later. He's a 'spark' player. And when Kelly is fit I would shift Graham to the bench as the utility.

Long term I think this spot is Tyrone Peachey's anyway.

 

[sharks2010]

disagree
peachey will be our lock

 

[Jasonstevenswedgie]

The only problem with stats like those are that you cant compare the metres per hitup for the first 20 minutes when people are fresh, to at the end of each half.

other teams make subs as well

Also the 1st and 2nd hitup's in a set will most likely be taken by props & will be against a more set line, than later on in the tackle count it will be by the smaller forwards with more room to move.

Which makes Vave, Mannah and Tautai( as prop) stats all the better. Vave and Tautai make just as many tackles as any one else for their time on the field, Mannah is a machine averaging almost a tackle a minute.

The whole point being is that comparing props to second rowers, doesnt really work, even comparing props when one takes the first hitup more often than the other is hard as well

Agree on this but if 8.5m is good for our starters and Vave and Mannah avg well over this ( so they actually bend the line) why do we continue to pick Cordoba? his work rate is no higher. Second rowers still need to make metres. Two many cooks spoil the broth.

we need someone like degwah to come on to add spark when the opposition defense is tiring

Thats what we have Townsend, kelly and Gardner for + topou and smith

Morris goes down injured. Who plays hooker? Smith? Gal? Stapleton???
And when Kelly is fit I would shift Graham to the bench as the utility.

If morris gets injured Graham to hooker and Toupo to the centres

The tradeoff is really whether you want an extra backrower- who would probably play 20mins at most

Comes down to how you use the bench - as above one player only plays 25min and they are a prop - everyone gets a rest and is fresh all of the game.

 

[A.Snowden]

Throw vave out there with his fitness level the same time as Douglas or Snowden and those stats go straight down. It's impressive coming fresh off the bench and making 5 or so hitups in the fiirst 10 or so minutes, but in reality, stats can lie. Same can be said for mannah, give him the same time and his stats go down.

 

[squiddy]

You've gone to a lot of work - well done but to get a true reflection you need to place a qualifying number on the hit ups before they become remotely comparable .

Also you need to compare time frames of a game

 

[Weaponhead]

What it does reinforce is that Tupou has been destroyed at this club. He is an impact player who can bust the line and offload who has become a worker.

 

[Jasonstevenswedgie]

Throw vave out there with his fitness level the same time as Douglas or Snowden and those stats go straight down. It's impressive coming fresh off the bench and making 5 or so hitups in the fiirst 10 or so minutes, but in reality, stats can lie. Same can be said for mannah, give him the same time and his stats go down.

Vave avgs 22min and Mannah 21(that includes the game where he played 4min) 24min without that game.

Vave played 30 min in one game and avg 10.1m.

You hit the nail on the head by saying stats go down the longer a player stays on the field, Snowden avgs 60min imagine if gallen, snowden and douglas were used in short spurts through-out the game.

when mentioning time-frames of the game the new props are usually up against fresh props aswell, and usually play large amounts of their time coming out of our end because by then we are on the back foot because we have played the other 2 props for to long

 

[DANGA HATCH]

We had someone who potentially looked the goods in DeGois but Ricky let him go. Sadly he has been injured a fair bit and if he comes back I hope he can be injury free. This position is so critical to our side and whilst I agree that Morris is going well there, we need to have someone who organizes for the full 80. If Degois does come back then Morris gives us cover off the bench for a number of positions.The sides that are playing well don't replace their 9, Melbourne, the Tigers, the cowboys the only side that seems use it effectively is the Dragons but take a look at their other playmakers and ther back line, they can afford to do it.

I totally agree with Lelei, he reminds me of the impact we used to get out of Tevita Latu before he hit his girl. The guy seems to have that X factor and to me he is a much better man to have in the mix.

 

[Mark^Bastard]

Tupou... who has become a worker.

Hahaha that's a crack up.

 

[ben]

disagree
peachey will be our lock

Peachey appears to small for lock.