Game Plans against the Big Guns

[Sir Chadley]

We all agree I'm sure that we have made a great start to this season and the team has made remarkable improvements in all areas of how the team has performed compared with 2023.

The incident with Tricky is regrettable but hopefully if Atkinson can hold the 6 spot and do his job, all can still be OK.

We have only played one team in the current top 8 and except for the Tigers game, we have pretty much blasted away the others.

What needs to change, if anything, when we come up against Storm, Panthers, Broncos and to a lesser extent Manly and Easts?

Does Fitz change the game plan for all or any of these sides?

 

[Sparkles]

We all agree I'm sure that we have made a great start to this season and the team has made remarkable improvements in all areas of how the team has performed compared with 2023.

The incident with Tricky is regrettable but hopefully if Atkinson can hold the 6 spot and do his job, all can still be OK.

We have only played one team in the current top 8 and except for the Tigers game, we have pretty much blasted away the others.

What needs to change, if anything, when we come up against Storm, Panthers, Broncos and to a lesser extent Manly and Easts?

Does Fitz change the game plan for all or any of these sides?

Interesting questions, Sir.

I get a lot of confidence in the team when you see an actual example of 'next man up' with Atkinson. He seems like a good kid with a bit of ability.

I don't think we change anything against any side to be honest. We're playing a style that doesn't let the other team play. If we can keep doing that it won't matter who the opposition is.

I did hear the 'need to beat top 8 teams' again last round, for the first time this season. I mean, we're 8 games in! What even is the top 8 this year? Here's a few thoughts on that subject:

• The Dogs are currently in the 8...
• 7-11th position are on the same win/loss record. Many of those would probably be in the 8 if we hadn't beaten them. The Cowboys had blasted a few opponents before they met us - then we gave them an old fashioned bit of how's your father and they haven't recovered.
• We actually lost to the team positioned 15th, so there goes that "we only beat teams outside the 8".... not the best part of the story, but still....
• Most of those other teams in the 8 or thereabouts have been basket cases and not showing any sort of consistency regardless of the 'quality' of the opposition. Unless you're the Tigers, who everyone says are going great, even when they get beaten by 20.

 

[bort]

Tough to say as there are some very different teams there.

We definitely need to chance our arm a bit more against Panthers as we can't do what we did vs Raiders and just keep going at them until they blink or crumble. They will grind and we need to restrict offloads as that is where they can break us down. They are too used to winning to drop an away grind match, need to get some things right. In saying that I think when switched on we do match up fairly well.

Broncos on the other hand have great defence but chance their hand a lot, we need to complete well so as to not give them extra goes at us, and need to be ready to snatch up opportunities when presented. Laser focus on Walsh and his blinding pace if he spots half a chance.

Storm have an elite spine so they'll be dangerous whenever they are in the game however our back 5 and forwards should be able to keep their middle off their game, similar to how we had the Raiders at all sorts, but their spine won't let it get near 40-0.
Tire out their forwards and stay switched on for the unexpected from their spine.
Ranking for average runs vs same position with 3 or more games - Munster 1st, Hughes 6th, Grant 1st

Easts have a gun forward pack and don't lose anything with their rotations, need to limit their forwards offloads. Cheese will run a lot if he gets a sniff from markers and has the power to turn it into quick PTBs and a roll on. If our forwards don't let themselves be overpowered we'll be right in it.

Roosters being neutral ground is not as good as home ground but oh well, is what it is.
Panthers home could give us a chance, need that nice loud sharks crowd to make sure we get some 50/50s
Broncos at Suncorp but backing up after origin so who knows what teams will look like (even as far as most playing but potentially fatigued)
Sea Eagles we don't play until round 27 so we will be resting blokes by then with our home final locked in.

 

[bort]

I did hear the 'need to beat top 8 teams' again last round, for the first time this season. I mean, we're 8 games in! What even is the top 8 this year?

Top 8 still TBD but we know the bottom 9 includes Warriors, Bulldogs, Rabbitohs, Cowboys and definitely the Raiders as they've all been beaten by Sharks!

I don't think we change anything against any side to be honest. We're playing a style that doesn't let the other team play. If we can keep doing that it won't matter who the opposition is.

Yeah I don't think we change it much at all, small tweaks here and there and the main thing would be stuff like who are our spot defenders we are targeting for this game. Do they have certain players who are lazy at marker for Blayke to look for, or bad tryline defenders for him and Tommy to looks for etc Are they a team who likes to spread wide early or play very up the middle. More looking for stuff like that than changing our basic game plan

 

[Sparkles]

Top 8 still TBD but we know the bottom 9 includes Warriors, Bulldogs, Rabbitohs, Cowboys and definitely the Raiders as because they've all been beaten by Sharks!

Damn straight!

 

[Proud Shark]

I think there have been stages in some games where we've still lapsed in game management. In the Raiders game there was a period of a few average ends of sets, giving them good starts. Do that against the Broncos or Panthers and they will punish us. We need to be getting to good effective kicks every set.

I'd potentially like to see us shift early in our sets at times too. We've been able to rely on our back 5 getting us out of trouble, but the kick chase and line speed from the better sides will make it tougher. I wouldn't mind seeing the odd decoy from Ramien with a shift to Nikora running wide to set up Katoa into space. Anything to keep the defence guessing so they can't just line up to try and smash our backs.

Finally, I think we need a way to get Kennedy involved in attack again. He's been fairly absent in the red zone, and I think we're going to need an additional point of difference to convert opportunities.

 

[HaroldBishop]

I think there have been stages in some games where we've still lapsed in game management. In the Raiders game there was a period of a few average ends of sets, giving them good starts. Do that against the Broncos or Panthers and they will punish us. We need to be getting to good effective kicks every set.

I'd potentially like to see us shift early in our sets at times too. We've been able to rely on our back 5 getting us out of trouble, but the kick chase and line speed from the better sides will make it tougher. I wouldn't mind seeing the odd decoy from Ramien with a shift to Nikora running wide to set up Katoa into space. Anything to keep the defence guessing so they can't just line up to try and smash our backs.

Finally, I think we need a way to get Kennedy involved in attack again. He's been fairly absent in the red zone, and I think we're going to need an additional point of difference to convert opportunities.

Agree on our kicking game, it's still a concern for me. I think it's getting papered over atm because we're winning comfortably, like you said we'll get punished for it by the better teams.

 

[bort]

I think there have been stages in some games where we've still lapsed in game management. In the Raiders game there was a period of a few average ends of sets, giving them good starts. Do that against the Broncos or Panthers and they will punish us. We need to be getting to good effective kicks every set.

I'd potentially like to see us shift early in our sets at times too. We've been able to rely on our back 5 getting us out of trouble, but the kick chase and line speed from the better sides will make it tougher. I wouldn't mind seeing the odd decoy from Ramien with a shift to Nikora running wide to set up Katoa into space. Anything to keep the defence guessing so they can't just line up to try and smash our backs.

Finally, I think we need a way to get Kennedy involved in attack again. He's been fairly absent in the red zone, and I think we're going to need an additional point of difference to convert opportunities.

I don't explicitly recall if there was other poor general play kicks or set ends, we did have

• kick low into legs for a non-played at kick out of play
• failure to find touch on a penalty
• failure to go 10m on a drop out

3 poorly executed kicks which built some pressure on us (especially as one was meant to be a pressure release!)
Not ideal. Just trying to clarify are these all it was though, or was there definitely other poor set ends?

 

[HaroldBishop]

I don't explicitly recall if there was other poor general play kicks or set ends, we did have

• kick low into legs for a non-played at kick out of play
• failure to find touch on a penalty
• failure to go 10m on a drop out

3 poorly executed kicks which built some pressure on us (especially as one was meant to be a pressure release!)
Not ideal. Just trying to clarify are these all it was though, or was there definitely other poor set ends?

Nicho put in a dinky little kick, I think not long before half time, which put zero pressure on them. I thought it was a very strange option.

 

[bort]

Nicho put in a dinky little kick, I think not long before half time, which put zero pressure on them. I thought it was a very strange option.

Okay so there was a fourth one / second poor end of set.

Look, not great by any means, but cut out the missed penalty range finder or get the one of legs (not that I thought it was a good kick) called played at and I think this period stands out a lot less. The penalty the worst one for me.
The drop out is a pretty low consequences error, just falls in the period a few kicks went astray.

 

[HaroldBishop]

Okay so there was a fourth one / second poor end of set.

Look, not great by any means, but cut out the missed penalty range finder or get the one of legs (not that I thought it was a good kick) called played at and I think this period stands out a lot less. The penalty the worst one for me.
The drop out is a pretty low consequences error, just falls in the period a few kicks went astray.

Yeah I'm not bothered at all by that one

 

[bort]

Yeah I'm not bothered at all by that one

Fair, but at the end of the day
- drop out too short: gave up field position or chance to contest
- dinky kick: gave up field position
- kick off legs: gave up field position
- not finding sideline on penaly: gave up ball and field position

So 3 of them are pretty comparable IMO
Better drop out there which we get back is even better than making an extra 20ish on one of the end of set kicks (not that getting it back is guaranteed, but not possible on a sub 10m kick)

Stand out for me, in either direction (low or high consequence) is the penalty. All in all, too many miss kicks in that patch though.

 

[MrDravid]

The drop out is a pretty low consequences error, just falls in the period a few kicks went astray.

The only problem with that one, was cos it wasn't a contested kick, it gave them a penalty, as opposed to an automatic play the ball 10 in from touch (which considering that state of the game, resulted in a play the ball in the middle, 10 m out).

 

[Tiger Shark]

I dont think it's rocket science, last year we were our own worst enemy with poor completions and errors. We were never able to maintain pressure.

Completions are up and you can tell the difference.

Also doesn't hurt that our left side defence isn't as leaky.

I can't see them employing some new game plan for the "big" teams - they'll stick with what's been working very well so far.

 

[Proud Shark]

Okay so there was a fourth one / second poor end of set.

Look, not great by any means, but cut out the missed penalty range finder or get the one of legs (not that I thought it was a good kick) called played at and I think this period stands out a lot less. The penalty the worst one for me.
The drop out is a pretty low consequences error, just falls in the period a few kicks went astray.

Yeah I'd have to rewatch again to be specific. Just remember feeling like there was a period where we weren't helping ourselves at the end of sets. I know you can't be perfect, but if we're going to beat Penrith/the other big sides we're going to have to be close.

 

[Super Impose]

If we keep holding the ball - and defending like we currently are - we can beat anyone .

The question is - can we ?

 

[Western Sharkie]

We all agree I'm sure that we have made a great start to this season and the team has made remarkable improvements in all areas of how the team has performed compared with 2023.

The incident with Tricky is regrettable but hopefully if Atkinson can hold the 6 spot and do his job, all can still be OK.

We have only played one team in the current top 8 and except for the Tigers game, we have pretty much blasted away the others.

What needs to change, if anything, when we come up against Storm, Panthers, Broncos and to a lesser extent Manly and Easts?

Does Fitz change the game plan for all or any of these sides?

I think we focus on us and how we want to play, but minor tweaks ever week to suit the opposition we are playing against

 

[bort]

I dont think it's rocket science, last year we were our own worst enemy with poor completions and errors. We were never able to maintain pressure.

Completions are up and you can tell the difference.

Also doesn't hurt that our left side defence isn't as leaky.

I can't see them employing some new game plan for the "big" teams - they'll stick with what's been working very well so far.

Made me wonder what our current leakage was like

2023 149 against by round 8 (21.3 per game) and 497 against for the season (20.1)
Conceded 44% on left, 24% middle, 33% right for season

2023 round 8 99 leaked (14.1) and conceding 29% left, 41% middle, 29% right
Middle probably isn't really 'worse' just both edges a lot better, not just by %

 

[Born&bred]

I think we need to realise that we ****ed their forwards in the first 15 minutes and then they were toast (Good tactics to use our backs early on to do that).

We could've benched half our team and walked in a win.

The 40/20 from Nicho was a great kick, but I could have stopped it from going over the sideline from another state!

They were pathetic and massively soft.

I don't know if we can do that with the better teams.

 

[ben]

I think we focus on us and how we want to play, but minor tweaks ever week to suit the opposition we are playing against

Couldnt agree more.

We are solid this year and I'm feeling more confident than in previous years with our structures. Our defence and forward attack is vastly improved, Nicho has his hands on the ball less, bench is the best in the NRL - The only speed bump is trindall - he's really let the club down but fingers crossed atkinson stars for us. So I wouldn't change much.

What is this obsession with the top eight?? Its ridiculous. Of course we can beat anyone regardless of the top eight. We lost to the tigers and they arent in the top eight. We beat the doggies who are. We also beat the Cows and warriors who I think will make the eight.

The top eight is no imaginary threshold we cant pass.

Lasty year we beat the Roosters, Knights, Raiders and lost a final by a point to the roosters, 3 top eight teams. Of last years top eight, we have beaten warriors, raiders x 2 already this year.

5 weeks in a row we have scored 30+, 2 weeks we have put on 82 points with 6 against, we are currently the best defensive team in the comp, with the best bench in the comp, 5th best attack and we are coming first with barely any injuries - we can beat any team in this comp regardless of where they sit on the ladder.