THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

BurgoShark

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He alternated during games, Hynes can do the same, pick his moments when he wants to be first receiver. Main thing is having an organising 7 to help him.
He certainly alternated between first and second receiver - as all good halves do - but that's irrelevant. I think a lot of fans just have a way more rigid view of positions than what actually happens on the field. It's a division of labour, and it's different for every coach.

If one of your guys happens to be a game-manager with a small trick bag (e.g. Townsend, Robson, Sezer, Fogerty) you just divide the labour differently than you would otherwise. I certainly think it would be a mistake to have 2 guys like that, but that doesn't mean that the minimum is 1. Melbourne have 2 fullbacks in their halves and that seem to working out fine for them. The Roosters have 2 guys you'd probably describe as textbook five-eighths, and that works well because they have their lock do some of the micromanagement. For the Sharks, there seems to be a good division of labour across the 6, 9 and 13 for most things. The team definitely needs another kicking option though.

Probably the hardest thing is having your dynamic attacking player involved enough in the simple "get through your sets" stuff so he stays involved, but not bogging him down with too much. It's a really hard balance to find. When you have a player who is one of the best at both throwing passes and running on to them, you want him doing both those things consistently, but neither of them so much that he can't do the other.
 

Capital_Shark

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Hynes "game management" lacks inside attacking 20 getting repeats etc. but general play he controls the tempo well especially with kicks early in sets.
 

bort

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We've had a organising 7s over the years that drove this forum crazy in the mould of Robson and Townsend. What I think people want is an elite 7, in the mould of Reynolds, Moses or Cleary. I'd absolutely love that too, and I'd be happy for us to throw money at one. But I think Nicho can lead us well enough that a 6 that can kick/sprint will work just as well alongside him. Give me pre-sharks Moylan in that spot any day.
First year at Sharks Moylan was pretty competent.
We finished equal first (4th) with a halves duo of Townsend and Moylan.
Moylan was 6th overall for try assists, 4th overall for line break assists and only took the 30th most kicks (averaging 3 per game).
And touched the ball 46 times a game to Chads 49.

But then we signed Shaun Johnson because Val left and we moved Moylan to fullback and his legs fell apart.

This season Moylan was 45 touches a game, but Nicho is on ball much more than Chad was.
Moylan only had 12 TAs compared to 16 in same amount of games, and only 15 LBAs to 16.

Those numbers are much closer than I thought they would be and I'm not sure what to do with them.
Seems like Moylan looked good next to Chad but with close-ish to the same stats looks mediocre next to Nicho.
And we finished 2nd instead of 4th.

So Moylan was better in attack than controlling Chad was but we want controlling Chad back so that Nicho doesn't have to... be one of he best attacking players in the game who loves getting his hands on the ball...?
 

bort

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Hynes "game management" lacks inside attacking 20 getting repeats etc. but general play he controls the tempo well especially with kicks early in sets.
Difficult to judge as there appears to be a game plan desire to take a tackle for a turnover in a corner rather than attempt a kick that could give a 7 tackle set. Now maybe that is because Nicho's short kicking game is viewed as unreliable, or maybe not.
 

BurgoShark

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First year at Sharks Moylan was pretty competent.
We finished equal first (4th) with a halves duo of Townsend and Moylan.
Moylan was 6th overall for try assists, 4th overall for line break assists and only took the 30th most kicks (averaging 3 per game).
And touched the ball 46 times a game to Chads 49.

But then we signed Shaun Johnson because Val left and we moved Moylan to fullback and his legs fell apart.

This season Moylan was 45 touches a game, but Nicho is on ball much more than Chad was.
Moylan only had 12 TAs compared to 16 in same amount of games, and only 15 LBAs to 16.

Those numbers are much closer than I thought they would be and I'm not sure what to do with them.
Seems like Moylan looked good next to Chad but with close-ish to the same stats looks mediocre next to Nicho.
And we finished 2nd instead of 4th.

So Moylan was better in attack than controlling Chad was but we want controlling Chad back so that Nicho doesn't have to... be one of he best attacking players in the game who loves getting his hands on the ball...?
Haha exactly!
 

Sharkfox

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He certainly alternated between first and second receiver - as all good halves do - but that's irrelevant. I think a lot of fans just have a way more rigid view of positions than what actually happens on the field. It's a division of labour, and it's different for every coach.

If one of your guys happens to be a game-manager with a small trick bag (e.g. Townsend, Robson, Sezer, Fogerty) you just divide the labour differently than you would otherwise. I certainly think it would be a mistake to have 2 guys like that, but that doesn't mean that the minimum is 1. Melbourne have 2 fullbacks in their halves and that seem to working out fine for them. The Roosters have 2 guys you'd probably describe as textbook five-eighths, and that works well because they have their lock do some of the micromanagement. For the Sharks, there seems to be a good division of labour across the 6, 9 and 13 for most things. The team definitely needs another kicking option though.

Probably the hardest thing is having your dynamic attacking player involved enough in the simple "get through your sets" stuff so he stays involved, but not bogging him down with too much. It's a really hard balance to find. When you have a player who is one of the best at both throwing passes and running on to them, you want him doing both those things consistently, but neither of them so much that he can't do the other.
Hynes would be a gun 5-8, a good halfback supporting him helps us go all the way. I don't mind chasing another 5-8 that can game manage and leaving him at 7 also, but would like to see him run more at second reciever, getting the ball at the back of an attacking shape and being a headache for defenders on the edge. Saw it in 2021 for storm and glimpses of it also when Kennedy was out and he'd sweep around on Moylan's side
 

BurgoShark

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Hynes would be a gun 5-8, a good halfback supporting him helps us go all the way. I don't mind chasing another 5-8 that can game manage and leaving him at 7 also, but would like to see him run more at second receiver, getting the ball at the back of an attacking shape and being a headache for defenders on the edge. Saw it in 2021 for storm and glimpses of it also when Kennedy was out and he'd sweep around on Moylan's side
He did these things all year, whether Kennedy was out or not. E.g. Wilton's tries against Parra and Manly both came from Hynes playing out the back on the left side of the field. Also in the Dragons game early on their created chances on both side of the field with Hynes outside Moylan.

The jersey means bugger all. Fitz already has him playing this way.
 
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First year at Sharks Moylan was pretty competent.
We finished equal first (4th) with a halves duo of Townsend and Moylan.
Moylan was 6th overall for try assists, 4th overall for line break assists and only took the 30th most kicks (averaging 3 per game).
And touched the ball 46 times a game to Chads 49.

But then we signed Shaun Johnson because Val left and we moved Moylan to fullback and his legs fell apart.

This season Moylan was 45 touches a game, but Nicho is on ball much more than Chad was.
Moylan only had 12 TAs compared to 16 in same amount of games, and only 15 LBAs to 16.

Those numbers are much closer than I thought they would be and I'm not sure what to do with them.
Seems like Moylan looked good next to Chad but with close-ish to the same stats looks mediocre next to Nicho.
And we finished 2nd instead of 4th.

So Moylan was better in attack than controlling Chad was but we want controlling Chad back so that Nicho doesn't have to... be one of he best attacking players in the game who loves getting his hands on the ball...?
Yep spot on. I shouldn't have excluded Moylan 2018.

I definitely wasn't advocating for booting Moylan at this stage. I'd have only given him 1 year but he was great for us this season so I can live with the second.

Spot on with the bold bit and that was the core of my post. If we had Chad back, the conversation would be we need a better halfback that can produce try assists to take the pressure of Nicho.

Nicho was incredible this year. Outside of his short kicking game he's going to be hard pushed being much better no matter who's beside him.

We're in a great spot with some serious junior halves coming through learning and Moylan is an awesome mentor for them at this stage of his career.
 

BurgoShark

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Yep spot on. I shouldn't have excluded Moylan 2018.

I definitely wasn't advocating for booting Moylan at this stage. I'd have only given him 1 year but he was great for us this season so I can live with the second.

Spot on with the bold bit and that was the core of my post. If we had Chad back, the conversation would be we need a better halfback that can produce try assists to take the pressure of Nicho.

Nicho was incredible this year. Outside of his short kicking game he's going to be hard pushed being much better no matter who's beside him.

We're in a great spot with some serious junior halves coming through learning and Moylan is an awesome mentor for them at this stage of his career.
That would be a short conversation. Mitchell Moses was the only halfback with more than those two.

1669280970972.png
 

BurgoShark

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First year at Sharks Moylan was pretty competent.
We finished equal first (4th) with a halves duo of Townsend and Moylan.
Moylan was 6th overall for try assists, 4th overall for line break assists and only took the 30th most kicks (averaging 3 per game).
And touched the ball 46 times a game to Chads 49.

But then we signed Shaun Johnson because Val left and we moved Moylan to fullback and his legs fell apart.

This season Moylan was 45 touches a game, but Nicho is on ball much more than Chad was.
Moylan only had 12 TAs compared to 16 in same amount of games, and only 15 LBAs to 16.

Those numbers are much closer than I thought they would be and I'm not sure what to do with them.
Seems like Moylan looked good next to Chad but with close-ish to the same stats looks mediocre next to Nicho.
And we finished 2nd instead of 4th.

So Moylan was better in attack than controlling Chad was but we want controlling Chad back so that Nicho doesn't have to... be one of he best attacking players in the game who loves getting his hands on the ball...?
For 2018 Moylan played some fullback and was in and out a bit for the first 5 games, so overall stats are probably a little lower. We only settled on the starting combo from round 6.
 

Sparkles

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He certainly alternated between first and second receiver - as all good halves do - but that's irrelevant. I think a lot of fans just have a way more rigid view of positions than what actually happens on the field. It's a division of labour, and it's different for every coach.

If one of your guys happens to be a game-manager with a small trick bag (e.g. Townsend, Robson, Sezer, Fogerty) you just divide the labour differently than you would otherwise. I certainly think it would be a mistake to have 2 guys like that, but that doesn't mean that the minimum is 1. Melbourne have 2 fullbacks in their halves and that seem to working out fine for them. The Roosters have 2 guys you'd probably describe as textbook five-eighths, and that works well because they have their lock do some of the micromanagement. For the Sharks, there seems to be a good division of labour across the 6, 9 and 13 for most things. The team definitely needs another kicking option though.

Probably the hardest thing is having your dynamic attacking player involved enough in the simple "get through your sets" stuff so he stays involved, but not bogging him down with too much. It's a really hard balance to find. When you have a player who is one of the best at both throwing passes and running on to them, you want him doing both those things consistently, but neither of them so much that he can't do the other.
That might be more the problem - Nicho getting too much ball. But it could be down to Moylan not being able to doing more these days. Feels to me to be more of a game plan though, which does stifle him a bit and put him in an unaccustomed role.
Hopefully the experience pays off and he becomes a top shelf game managing, ball playing, running half with a great kicking game.
 

bort

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That might be more the problem - Nicho getting too much ball. But it could be down to Moylan not being able to doing more these days. Feels to me to be more of a game plan though, which does stifle him a bit and put him in an unaccustomed role.
Hopefully the experience pays off and he becomes a top shelf game managing, ball playing, running half with a great kicking game.
Might even win a Dally M one day if he gets there
 
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