THE RUMOUR MILL - Player Movement

Gards

Jaws
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Ash Taylor Shaun Johnson would have to be one of the flakiest halves pairings I can think off beyond Tim Smith Todd Carney (sadly never witnessed)

Not the blokes I want to be relying on over a season or going into big games (which warriors prob wont need to worry about the latter)

No wonder they want Metcalf as backup for one when of them breaks down physically or needs to take leave for personal reasons

We need to keep hold of Metcalf - Moylan can work on his tan at henson park. He's already got our money (again) no need to play him for sake of sunken cost fallacy, barring a run of very good form and injury avoidance. But if Metcalf wants starting spot not much we can do bar pairing him with Hynes in the halves which would be a bad idea

As for wingers, while they don't make many tackles when they do make them it tends to be very important . When they miss them there's a good chance it has let a try in or opened up a massive line break down the sidelines . so against big or small opposition players they still need good technique, timing, communication and ability to read the play and very few wingers have all those things
 

Jaws

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Who cares about rep jerseys?
Alex Johnston has never played for NSW and he scores more tries than any other winger every year.
Nick Cotric played for NSW and I would never entertain signing him
Nic cotric is better than mulitalo. Has one bad year at the dogs in one of the worst teams we’ve seen in the nrl. Pretty quick to forget his ability and how he played at Canberra.
 

bort

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Why the fk is everyone even talking about Kevin naiqama ? He is SHT
Snowman thinks we have or will sign him
Your delusional if you think at his current rate of improvement he will get anywhere near a rep jersey. He scored a lot of tries but blew just as money throwing a foward pass to his winger.
I didn't say I think that, I was just correcting where you responded to only half of what someone else said.
In theory if he did keep consistently improving at some point he probably should be in the mix for rep although I wouldn't expect that to happen.
I personally don't actually think he improved that much, just his skills fit better in centre/winger than halves where he got all his opportunities in 2020.

I don't have evidence to back this up but I think on opportunities finished off vs opportunities wasted he likely wasn't significantly worse than many of our other players. I'd be surprised if he blew 14 genuine chances with forward passes to a winger.
 

Gards

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Does someone very loosely alluding to Tracey earning a rep jersey really need to be clarified as obvious exaggeration and sarcasm?

You disappoint me Sharks Forever, I thought we had come so far

The key to Tracey is keeping him away from the spine, don't even let him near the chiropractor
 

bort

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Ash Taylor Shaun Johnson would have to be one of the flakiest halves pairings I can think off beyond Tim Smith Todd Carney (sadly never witnessed)

Not the blokes I want to be relying on over a season or going into big games (which warriors prob wont need to worry about the latter)

No wonder they want Metcalf as backup for one when of them breaks down physically or needs to take leave for personal reasons

We need to keep hold of Metcalf - Moylan can work on his tan at henson park. He's already got our money (again) no need to play him for sake of sunken cost fallacy, barring a run of very good form and injury avoidance. But if Metcalf wants starting spot not much we can do bar pairing him with Hynes in the halves which would be a bad idea

As for wingers, while they don't make many tackles when they do make them it tends to be very important . When they miss them there's a good chance it has let a try in or opened up a massive line break down the sidelines . so against big or small opposition players they still need good technique, timing, communication and ability to read the play and very few wingers have all those things
Regarding the bold I agree you don't play him for the sake of his wage, but he actually has a good winning record with us when on the park. He is very capable of winning and holding a spot in the team.

This season with Moylan in the line up we were 8-7 and 2-7 without him. Season before we were 5-3 with 5-7 without.

I definitely have issues with Moylan and didn't agree with re-signing him but there is a very good chance he is on our best 17 if not 13 when healthy.

I don't agree with giving people (or promising people) positions just because we hope they will be better than other options in the future, like arguments last year about whether Trindall should be handed a jersey or promised one for this year. He hung around and he earned a lot of opportunities, which he had mixed results in.

Also not in Fitz best interest to worry about whether Metcalf will be a top half in three years time if he loses his job before then because he doesn't run his strongest line up.

As for bit at the end about wingers yes I agree defending in the backs is very important and has it's own complications. As per my comment that sparked that conversation though I'm still not convinced having to make a lot of tackles or having to tackle a lot of very big blokes is usually a concern for wingers.
From rugby 7s where there is a lot of 1 on 1 tackles against very agile blokes Miller may actually have good technique, decision making and timing. Have seen some people say he is a good communicator and very professional. A lot of the challenges that get put in front of NRL wingers and centres are what the whole game of Rugby 7s is designed for, creating space, hitting holes, forcing decisions, beating your man etc
 

Sparkles

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Tough spot for us, you just can't keep them all. Metcalf looks great, but not proven enough in roles we need filled to overtake Tracey or Moyan this year.

It could prove to be a mistake to move, but it's hard to blame the kid for grabbing at a better chance to play first grade.

Hopefully it won't matter... If Trindall becomes the player people think he can be, Moylan stays fit and Tracey keeps improving (if he does at his current rate he'll play for Australia!) we won't need him.

When is Tracey every gonna play for Australia given the amount of players that will always be infront of him.
Did you just ignore the bit where it was reliant on continued significant improvement or are you just assuming that applies to an amount of other players in front of him too?
Your delusional if you think at his current rate of improvement he will get anywhere near a rep jersey. He scored a lot of tries but blew just as money throwing a foward pass to his winger.
Who cares about rep jerseys?
Alex Johnston has never played for NSW and he scores more tries than any other winger every year.
Nick Cotric played for NSW and I would never entertain signing him
I think Sparkles was being a bit sarcastic about Tracey playing for Australia. At least I hope he was!
Does someone very loosely alluding to Tracey earning a rep jersey really need to be clarified as obvious exaggeration and sarcasm?

You disappoint me Sharks Forever, I thought we had come so far

The key to Tracey is keeping him away from the spine, don't even let him near the chiropractor

I think I know how journo's get it wrong now...
These random misunderstood tangent conversations are usually more entertaining than the actual conversation anyway, cheers guys!
 

bort

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I think I know how journo's get it wrong now...
These random misunderstood tangent conversations are usually more entertaining than the actual conversation anyway, cheers guys!
Mole will put out an AJ to Sharks rumour within a fortnight
 

Chad

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Ash Taylor Shaun Johnson would have to be one of the flakiest halves pairings I can think off beyond Tim Smith Todd Carney (sadly never witnessed)

Not the blokes I want to be relying on over a season or going into big games (which warriors prob wont need to worry about the latter)

No wonder they want Metcalf as backup for one when of them breaks down physically or needs to take leave for personal reasons

We need to keep hold of Metcalf - Moylan can work on his tan at henson park. He's already got our money (again) no need to play him for sake of sunken cost fallacy, barring a run of very good form and injury avoidance. But if Metcalf wants starting spot not much we can do bar pairing him with Hynes in the halves which would be a bad idea

As for wingers, while they don't make many tackles when they do make them it tends to be very important . When they miss them there's a good chance it has let a try in or opened up a massive line break down the sidelines . so against big or small opposition players they still need good technique, timing, communication and ability to read the play and very few wingers have all those things
This was what I was trying to tell Bort before a page back but I think you have probably explained it better than me mate! :)
 

Gards

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It depends how much you weigh Moylan's advantages/disadvantages vs. Metcalfs pros/cons. Like how much do we really lose not playing Moylan vs what we gain rolling with Metcalf?

Everyone's answer could be different and every game could give us a different viewpoint. Moylan has experience and better defense, Metcalfs shown he can pass as good as Mozza and has as good as footwork if not better and no doubt is miles quicker and has youth and recent fitness on his side and plenty of scope for growth and improvement.

Mozza can be a decent/good player for us and had a solidish season but an argument could be made Moylan isn't part of our strongest line up due to his constant unsettling of our line up with injury and mixish form

He's here for 12 months - there's only so much good left he can do for our club

Playing young blokes is all about backing someone that is unproven, every good player was young and unproven at some point but showed enough promise to be given a crack. You can't avoid the element of risk in selecting them. Same as their is a risk or opportunity cost playing older players. Good news its a long season and we don't need to stick with a poor performer for weeks on end if they aren't getting it done.

Picking young blokes really is about hoping they will be better that someone else in the future but while doing a servicable or good job for you in the present. You don't play them now if they are terrible and hope they some day wont be terrible. not unless it's a last resort. In some rare cases they are cleary better than more established players right from the outset even if they arn't yet the finished package (not saying this is the case with Metcalf)

Hopefully the 7's defense translates for this Miller fella as you mention Bort but he sounds as much a project as prospect for 13 a side NRL.
Exciting fleet footed players are just that, until they are not and they get worked out or break down. Only the real greats can't be contained over a career (Moylan and SJ have soured me. But Metcalf gave me hope again not to mention some quick agile blokes at other clubs)
 
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snowman

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Nic cotric is better than mulitalo. Has one bad year at the dogs in one of the worst teams we’ve seen in the nrl. Pretty quick to forget his ability and how he played at Canberra.
Nic Cotric is utter shite and got into the rep team because Ricky cried about canberra players being overlooked
 

Sparkles

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Ash Taylor only just managing a T&T... Hope he went to the J. Thurston school for personal finance.
He should have been out injured most of the time to end up with a healthy new, if short term, contract. That's the way the pro's do it.
 

snowman

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Ash Taylor only just managing a T&T... Hope he went to the J. Thurston school for personal finance.
He should have been out injured most of the time to end up with a healthy new, if short term, contract. That's the way the pro's do it.
ash getting a T&T contract is insulting considering some of the **** half backs in the comp
 

bort

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This was what I was trying to tell Bort before a page back but I think you have probably explained it better than me mate! :)
But what he said still has nothing to do with what I wrote you said you disagreed with
It depends how much you weigh Moylan's advantages/disadvantages vs. Metcalfs pros/cons. Like how much do we really lose not playing Moylan vs what we gain rolling with Metcalf?

Everyone's answer could be different and every game could give us a different viewpoint. Moylan has experience and better defense, Metcalfs shown he can pass as good as Mozza and has as good as footwork if not better and no doubt is miles quicker and has youth and recent fitness on his side and plenty of scope for growth and improvement.

Mozza can be a decent/good player for us and had a solidish season but an argument could be made Moylan isn't part of our strongest line up due to his constant unsettling of our line up with injury and mixish form

He's here for 12 months - there's only so much good left he can do for our club

Playing young blokes is all about backing someone that is unproven, every good player was young and unproven at some point but showed enough promise to be given a crack. You can't avoid the element of risk in selecting them. Same as their is a risk or opportunity cost playing older players. Good news its a long season and we don't need to stick with a poor performer for weeks on end if they aren't getting it done.

Picking young blokes really is about hoping they will be better that someone else in the future but while doing a servicable or good job for you in the present. You don't play them now if they are terrible and hope they some day wont be terrible. not unless it's a last resort. In some rare cases they are cleary better than more established players right from the outset even if they arn't yet the finished package (not saying this is the case with Metcalf)

Hopefully the 7's defense translates for this Miller fella as you mention Bort but he sounds as much a project as prospect for 13 a side NRL.
Exciting fleet footed players are just that, until they are not and they get worked out or break down. Only the real greats can't be contained over a career (Moylan and SJ have soured me. But Metcalf gave me hope again not to mention some quick agile blokes at other clubs)
If Moylan stays fit chances are he gives us a lot more this season than Metcalf would. IF
Definitely an argument to be made regarding how disruptive his injuries have been and may be again. If he makes it through pre-season I would think he gets first crack though.

Not sold there is only so much good he can do in 12 months.
Only takes one season to win a premiership, one good 12 months from Maloney (and some others) won us a Premiership.
A full season is more than long enough for a player to have a positive impact, can't just disregard everyone with 1 year left on contract.

Typically young blokes get a chance when opportunity presents or they are going so well they force their selection. Picking someone who isn't going so well you can't leave them out and you have better proven options just because you hope they will be really good in the future is not something I think many NRL coaches are doing regularly. And with good reason. It is more likely to backfire than work and you will lose your job.

Whether Moylan starts or is 14 if (when) he eventually breaks down happy for Metcalf to get a shot and hopefully plays well enough to hold it, I just doubt he goes well enough through preseason to beat out a fit Moylan and I don't think he should be gifted a jersey in that circumstance.

Trindall gave us a bit of a mixed bag but happy for him to keep working on his game in those opportunities last season because there were no better options. I think 6/7/14 between Moylan, Hynes, Trindall, Metcalf & Tracey is a very interesting conundrum for Fitz to untangle. Other than Hynes in 6 or 7 (and Tracey only a possible 14) I think there is an argument for almost any combo, but I think it will be the players who earn the jersey not who has X much potential or the longest contract.

As for Miller I don't know much about him but I am definitely assuming he is a project buy. Has some good raw skills and attributes and actually has big game experience. Hoping he is price low enough it won't matter if he doesn't work out. If it is a 2 year contract as suggested assume there is a fit of faith he will come good even if not for this season.
 
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