Official Sione Katoa

[HaroldBishop]

If we had To choose between Jesse or Katoa, it would be a tough choice

Nah

 

[bort]

If we had To choose between Jesse or Katoa, it would be a tough choice

Don’t think we have a clear right centre so I’d say Ramien jobs safer

 

[Tiger Shark]

If we had To choose between Jesse or Katoa, it would be a tough choice

It would absolutely not be a tough choice.

 

[Gumby]

Ramien is a must at this stage

 

[Sparkles]

Think this is a bit inflated.

I don't think he has a 'massive' weakness. He's only okay and not a tall winger, but it's not like he's regularly spilling balls. Ronnie just as capable of a random **** up from a kick, but has much higher ceiling as a kick threat. There are definitely opportunities to exploit like if a Tupou or someone is matched on him but Roosters try that a lot not just vs Sione. Kick for centre with a tap back is becoming more common now.

Also how bad his/Ronnies defence is I'm also not sure. They often rush in but I don't know if they are being coached to do that or not.
Often when a winger scores it is not his opposite number who created that space, often has come from further in field. If they shoot and don't make the tackle that's bad, but if they come in because they needed to that isn't their fault.

Question also about reads, does Ramien need help with tackling that centre or not?
How are they positioned against him, how good a one-on-one are they are a runner. Difficult decisions to make and we see a lot of wingers get it wrong in the split second.

Neither Ronnie nor Katoa are exception defenders for sure, but we had the third best defence end of last regular season. We've gotten by okay.

Subjective and statistic (whole story etc) but he sits 67th for wingers* average try causes, Ronnie 77th.
*quite a few aren't wingers or don't have large number of games, although plenty of highly rated names above our guys

He's back

 

[snowman]

If we had To choose between Jesse or Katoa, it would be a tough choice

there is nothing tough about it, its jesse 10 times out of 10

 

[Gards]

I don't see us not having both Jesse and Katoa otherwise club has stuffed up - doubt they are having the big cash thrown at them to entice them away so it's just a matter of giving them a bit of job security/pay bump and what we want to get out of our backline in the short to medium term because they both love the club and are special players IMO

Their communication between each other last season was improved and that flowed onto better defense as well

Katoa has had some great takes under the high ball under pressure (same as Ronnie). Katoa's problem is he is short and often gets out jumped or bumped away and it leads to fumbles or complete misses but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Difficult thing to balance is keeping young upcoming backline players happy in your system if they arn't getting FG games but right now we should be pushing for a premiership or 2 with our best/most experienced squad

 

[Proud Shark]

I don't see us not having both Jesse and Katoa otherwise club has stuffed up - doubt they are having the big cash thrown at them to entice them away so it's just a matter of giving them a bit of job security/pay bump and what we want to get out of our backline in the short to medium term because they both love the club and are special players IMO

Their communication between each other last season was improved and that flowed onto better defense as well

Katoa has had some great takes under the high ball under pressure (same as Ronnie). Katoa's problem is he is short and often gets out jumped or bumped away and it leads to fumbles or complete misses but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Difficult thing to balance is keeping young upcoming backline players happy in your system if they arn't getting FG games but right now we should be pushing for a premiership or 2 with our best/most experienced squad

It's a hard one. I'm a big Sione fan, but a premiership winning squad finds space to save cash somewhere. We had Val and Bird on peanuts in 2016, could we make the same thing happen with Iro and Stonestreet? The whole thing is kinda moot though unless we actually know what Sione would be asking.

 

[bort]

I don't see us not having both Jesse and Katoa otherwise club has stuffed up - doubt they are having the big cash thrown at them to entice them away so it's just a matter of giving them a bit of job security/pay bump and what we want to get out of our backline in the short to medium term because they both love the club and are special players IMO

Their communication between each other last season was improved and that flowed onto better defense as well

Katoa has had some great takes under the high ball under pressure (same as Ronnie). Katoa's problem is he is short and often gets out jumped or bumped away and it leads to fumbles or complete misses but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Difficult thing to balance is keeping young upcoming backline players happy in your system if they arn't getting FG games but right now we should be pushing for a premiership or 2 with our best/most experienced squad

They've played a lot of footy together, they have no excuse not to communicate. Probably played like 40-50 NRL games next to each other (Ronnie has spent some time of right + Katoa injuries and Ramien suspensions). They first started playing together in 2017 NYC (both team of the year, and Briton).

Admittedly, having no excuse doesn't mean it can't be true.

Does raise the question given Ramien's penchant for wild pass timing how long would a new player like Stonestreet take to adapt to it.

For my own curiosity
2018: Ramien 20 games 10 tries
2018: Katoa 9 games 3 tries
29 13 score in 45%

Ramien at Newy

2020: Ramien 19 games 8 tries
2020: Katoa 19 games 16 tries
38 24 63%

2021: Ramien 17 games 5 tries
2021: Katoa 13 games 9 tries
30 14 47%

2022: Ramien 23 games 10 tries
2022: Katoa 16 games 14 tries
39 24 62%

From a games played to tries scored perspective you could probably argue they have no been super consistent across years.
The 2021 you can probably point at **** year from SJ as a big factor although they also both played round 1 and then not together again until round 16 too. Nikora scored 6, 4, 8 across 2020 to 2022 so not like he was the 2021 beneficiary of that edge instead.

Difficult thing to balance is keeping young upcoming backline players happy in your system if they arn't getting FG games but right now we should be pushing for a premiership or 2 with our best/most experienced squad

For sustained success though you need to let the people you can replace go.
Look at Panthers release Burton, bring in Tago. Bring up May let Staines fall away and then release. Let Api leave because Soni is almost ready.
The other piece of this puzzle is when you can't afford to keep a Kikau you make sure you find some grinders who will come in and not let you down - would have got Garner and Hosking for decent amount less than retaining Kikau.
We have the depth to do this, the key is getting it right and not being the West Tigers who fumbled Moses, Tedesco and (when he was still decent) Woods all out the door with no replacements.

It's a hard one. I'm a big Sione fan, but a premiership winning squad finds space to save cash somewhere. We had Val and Bird on peanuts in 2016, could we make the same thing happen with Iro and Stonestreet? The whole thing is kinda moot though unless we actually know what Sione would be asking.

A more internal example of the above

 

[Sparkles]

The other piece of this puzzle is when you can't afford to keep a Kikau you make sure you find some grinders who will come in and not let you down - would have got Garner and Hosking for less than retaining Kikau.

The signing of Garner shows just how good Penrith are at managing their roster, imho. Garner was visibly performing well, and improving. In a **** team. He's absolutely primed to throw it into another gear with the Panthers.

I don't think anyone else was really even looking at him...in fact:
"Coach Michael Maguire says the Wests Tigers hold no grudges towards Luke Garner, who is taking a pay cut to join the Penrith Panthers from next season." (No wonder McGuire got the arse)

Really well done.

 

[Sir Chadley]

Have I missed something with this one? Are we speculating about Sione's future simply because some random on social media said he is off to the Dragons?

 

[bort]

Have I missed something with this one? Are we speculating about Sione's future simply because some random on social media said he is off to the Dragons?

Prompted by that but I would say more so on the basis he has yet to extend and Stonestreet looked decent

 

[Proud Shark]

Have I missed something with this one? Are we speculating about Sione's future simply because some random on social media said he is off to the Dragons?

There were rumours a few months ago that his future may not be here long term. Regardless though, it's the off season for another few weeks. Let us wildly speculate.

 

[Sir Chadley]

Prompted by that but I would say more so on the basis he has yet to extend and Stonestreet looked decent

Thanks Bort.

It just amazes me how people put stock in rumours and then try to add 2 + 2 and get 5. It absolutely boggles my mind.

 

[bort]

The signing of Garner shows just how good Penrith are at managing their roster, imho. Garner was visibly performing well, and improving. In a **** team. He's absolutely primed to throw it into another gear with the Panthers.

I don't think anyone else was really even looking at him...in fact:
"Coach Michael Maguire says the Wests Tigers hold no grudges towards Luke Garner, who is taking a pay cut to join the Penrith Panthers from next season." (No wonder McGuire got the arse)

Really well done.

Yeah, he wouldn't of taken a pay cut to come and fight with Nikora, Teig and Wade but there he had a great opportunity with his name on it. While Panthers jersey wouldn't have no competition Ipap had signed at Tigers so he wasn't a sure thing there either.

They took a decent player in a **** team and got him at a (presumably) great rate. Good teams do.
Or, like us in 2016 spot an Ennis and Lewis being pushed out of their clubs and snatch them up.

 

[Sir Chadley]

There were rumours a few months ago that his future may not be here long term. Regardless though, it's the off season for another few weeks. Let us wildly speculate.

But PS, you're a decent fellow. You don't want to be part of that gang do you?

 

[Sparkles]

Have I missed something with this one? Are we speculating about Sione's future simply because some random on social media said he is off to the Dragons?

Mate, people here still write enough on Snowy's scoops to make George RR Martin weep with jealousy at their output, and we know him

 

[Proud Shark]

But PS, you're a decent fellow. You don't want to be part of that gang do you?

Haha, off season is a different beast. There's only so many times we can discuss team line ups etc. Normal service to resume in March.

 

[snowman]

Thanks Bort.

It just amazes me how people put stock in rumours and then try to add 2 + 2 and get 5. It absolutely boggles my mind.

no one believed that rumour, but you have to be thinking that sione is the most likely to not be re-signed by us considering SS is going to be a beast

 

[Sir Chadley]

no one believed that rumour, but you have to be thinking that sione is the most likely to not be re-signed by us considering SS is going to be a beast

Well some did believe it judging by what they posted - Puma for one!

I hope you are right about SS mate - I know he is tall and very fast but I am worried he's not bulked up enough. I think he needs to put on a bit more muscle.