Official Sione Katoa

[bort]

Mate, they are treating the public like they are idiots. I'm happy for them to talk about the "rule" as it does seem there is a small chance it is correct.

But there's no way the touchie or the ref would have seen that - it was a blatant forward pass - they should be saying "well the law is this but also the touchie got it horribly wrong and he'll be dropped for two games."

I agree with that but I think accepting the bunker invented a new interpretation on the fly is a worse look. I'm not very happy with the interpretation of this rule they are using, especially as it hasn't seemingly ever come up before (that any juggle that moves forward at any point is a knock on unless 100% regathered). Technically a lot of dropped balls that end up touching ground backwards would be knocks ons because at some stage before being knocked back they had forward momentum not in full control of player...
Touchie did miss a forward pass for sure.

And apply to tries? I've seen a heap of examples where a players doesn't look like having controls but plants a finger back on the ball as it hits the ground and have it awarded.

Sounds like by the letter of the new old law that 100% full control needs to be clearly regathered or presumably you can't score, but they are sidestepping that by calling Katoa a bat on instead of a pass. A bat on is an action where you inherently don't have full control, so they are saying he lost control and then made a pat on (no control) action. For a try they will say didn't have full control but then made a try scoring action with sufficient control or something along those lines.
It was clearly a pass though. Admittedly did not have full control of it but definitely was a pass action.

 

[Sparkles]

Sounds like by the letter of the new old law that 100% full control needs to be clearly regathered or presumably you can't score, but they are sidestepping that by calling Katoa a bat on instead of a pass. A bat on is an action where you inherently don't have full control, so they are saying he lost control and then made a pat on (no control) action. For a try they will say didn't have full control but then made a try scoring action with sufficient control or something along those lines.
It was clearly a pass though. Admittedly did not have full control of it but definitely was a pass action.

That's a good point. He didn't have time to grab the ball, hold it for a second then make a pass. His decision was to 'pass' the ball, so for mine that should qualify as having control. Otherwise the letter of the law doesn't allow for the play, and like the looser interpretation for tries, it's more in the spirit of the game to let him get away with it. Like when you drop the ball and kick it not being a knock on.

 

[bort]

That's a good point. He didn't have time to grab the ball, hold it for a second then make a pass. His decision was to 'pass' the ball, so for mine that should qualify as having control. Otherwise the letter of the law doesn't allow for the play, and like the looser interpretation for tries, it's more in the spirit of the game to let him get away with it. Like when you drop the ball and kick it not being a knock on.

It's a hell of a messy way to arrive at the right decision, a very two wrongs make a right feel about it.

My question is now, if he had juggled the ball ('forward over the ground') and then used that same motion to 'bat on' the ball backwards is it still technically now a knock on as he never had control and ball moved forward at some stage?
Or by batting it on backwards does that somehow negate the fact that at some point it moved forward during him having no control?
I also wonder what the NRL definitions of a pass and bat on are and how the bunker differentiates between the two.
If asked what he was doing there I think he probably says trying to pass the ball, not trying to bat it on.

 

[Sparkles]

It's a hell of a messy way to arrive at the right decision, a very two wrongs make a right feel about it.

My question is now, if he had juggled the ball ('forward over the ground') and then used that same motion to 'bat on' the ball backwards is it still technically now a knock on as he never had control and ball moved forward at some stage?
Or by batting it on backwards does that somehow negate the fact that at some point it moved forward during him having no control?
I also wonder what the NRL definitions of a pass and bat on are and how the bunker differentiates between the two.
If asked what he was doing there I think he probably says trying to pass the ball, not trying to bat it on.

My impression is that it's a knock on. Wasn't that the problem?
Yep, all too messy. The simplest way around it would just be to look at the intent and the result. If he juggles forward and eventually bats it backwards into a teammates hands there's no reason why it should be a knock on. If it hits the ground in that attempt I'm find with it being a knock on, as he's propelled it forward at one stage and lost it. They call knock on half the time if you lose it backwards now, which I don't really have a problem with either. It's scrappy stuff and should be discouraged.

 

[bort]

My impression is that it's a knock on. Wasn't that the problem?
Yep, all too messy. The simplest way around it would just be to look at the intent and the result. If he juggles forward and eventually bats it backwards into a teammates hands there's no reason why it should be a knock on. If it hits the ground in that attempt I'm find with it being a knock on, as he's propelled it forward at one stage and lost it. They call knock on half the time if you lose it backwards now, which I don't really have a problem with either. It's scrappy stuff and should be discouraged.

What I am wondering about is if the 'tap on' had been backwards did he still knock on because he juggled ball (it moved forward) and he didn't regain possession, so then it hits another sharks player after it moved forward = knock on.
Or is the juggle just how they then decide that his pass isn't a pass so it is only knocked on by virtue of going forward and touching other player not from a pass

 

[Western Sharkie]

What I am wondering about is if the 'tap on' had been backwards did he still knock on because he juggled ball (it moved forward) and he didn't regain possession, so then it hits another sharks player after it moved forward = knock on.
Or is the juggle just how they then decide that his pass isn't a pass so it is only knocked on by virtue of going forward and touching other player not from a pass

Only way to answer that is to close your eyes and pick a number.
That’s what the NRL did on this one!

 

[HaroldBishop]

Only way to answer that is to close your eyes and pick a number.
That’s what the NRL did on this one!

Sounds a bit like the judiciary.

 

[Western Sharkie]

Sounds a bit like the judiciary.

Common practice so it seems!

 

[Gards]

To even things up they should have just followed NRL officiating standard practice - punish the team that benefited with bs calls and sin bins for the rest of the game to eradicate any notion of bias or unfair advantage

I never knew you could knock the ball on into yourself lol

 

[Thresher]

To even things up they should have just followed NRL officiating standard practice - punish the team that benefited with bs calls and sin bins for the rest of the game to eradicate any notion of bias or unfair advantage

I never knew you could knock the ball on into yourself lol

Ha ha. Spot on.

 

[Western Sharkie]

To even things up they should have just followed NRL officiating standard practice - punish the team that benefited with bs calls and sin bins for the rest of the game to eradicate any notion of bias or unfair advantage

I never knew you could knock the ball on into yourself lol

Rule # 4RK.0.FF (Subsection BS).
The bunker can officiate on anything in order to save face and cover ref’s and lines person (need to be politically correct) arse!

 

[HaroldBishop]

Not his best

 

[Gards]

a rare off game for the big S

but he did win us a couple penalties

tbf our entire backline struggled to make an impact tonight

 

[CrazyMatt]

Looks like he’ll need time to get his eye in so to speak. Looked a bit rusty. Hopefully he doesnt pick up a suspension, the last thing he needs is to miss more games.

 

[apezza]

I noticed he got a bit of a whack in head around the 15 Min mark. I thought he wasn't the same since then but could be wrong.

 

[sharkboy18]

Katoa will probably be out for a week or 2 now, I saw no reason for him to do that, I like him but that was a stupid hit by him. Lodge might get a week too for his shot on Mulitalo though.

 

[Gards]

good game

then again The Big Sexy could invade Poland and I would still love him

 

[apezza]

He nearly lost me the other week with 'Ponytail-Gate' but luckily we got the penalty.

 

[puma1355]

Great finisher

 

[HaroldBishop]

Big. ****ing. Sexy.