Reason why our attack stinks and stalls

Wilson said:
It’s an odd one because that’s what was happening in the first half with great success.

It’s overly simplifying it, however I can’t help but feel this team has an attitude / fitness problem. Players too often are happy to walk and take plays off, not being attentive to what’s unfolding in front of them.
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I agree, this teams fitness and attention is questionable.

Everyone needs to just calm the eff down and watch what is happening.
 
Wilson said:
Watch that game and see that play.

Brailey picks it up and scoots at the retreating inside defenders - absolutely no one comes with him, until Hiroti finally realises. Brailey had to start running backwards to turn him under - wasted play.

Rugby League is a pretty simple game. We had no success in the second half standing this deep trying to run structured plays every couple of plays - yet we were untouchable in the first half where it was quick, on the front foot movements through the middle which created the space for our tries.

We go away from what works on a repeatedly.
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Why is he running in this situation? There was no clear gap in the defensive line, he had no support and obviously didn't communicate that he was going as you said no one was near him. I put this one on braily. He already had 3 options and chose a poor 4th one. Scooting was a poor option in this case
 
Wilson said:
It’s an odd one because that’s what was happening in the first half with great success.

It’s overly simplifying it, however I can’t help but feel this team has an attitude / fitness problem. Players too often are happy to walk and take plays off, not being attentive to what’s unfolding in front of them.
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The difference in the first half he was doing it when players were already flat in the 10 metre zone. Totally different to the situation in the picture. Had he gone left Jesse would have pushed up off his hip
 
Wilson said:
It’s an odd one because that’s what was happening in the first half with great success.

It’s overly simplifying it, however I can’t help but feel this team has an attitude / fitness problem. Players too often are happy to walk and take plays off, not being attentive to what’s unfolding in front of them.
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It's been a problem for years. They're too inconsistent.
Good enough to win 14+ games a year, but seemingly unable to rise to another level.
 
Milkshark said:
How many times have I mentioned this last year and probably the year prior already.

Another year, same team, same tactics.
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Tbf the best tactical change for yesterdays game would have been to give away like 4 less penalties

Take away the stupid hip drop bs, increase discipline enough to cut out a couple of the soft high tackles and other soft pens and we most likely win with the same team and same tactics as saw us well up in the first half and win last week against a good side
 
I've got one word for you Kimmy.

Hynes.

He hits the Harbour Bridge pass occasionally but has zero deception. No step or change of pace and signals all of his plays.

His defence is average too.
 
Chopper said:
I've got one word for you Kimmy.

Hynes.

He hits the Harbour Bridge pass occasionally but has zero deception. No step or change of pace and signals all of his plays.

His defence is average too.
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Agree with some of the attack comments but his defence has been first class for a half. Makes at least double the tackles of any other No.7 in thr NRL and has made some great 1 on 1 try saves.
 
I just think we're lacking some high level strike in the backs. Iro seems.to have lost a little sting, maybe due to the metre-eater workload he carries, Sam is a decent finisher, Katoa is.... nuts .. good, but not a weapon. Jesse's strong but inconsistent. Will is three different players a season and I still don't know which one would be best. Ronnie's the closest thjng we've got. Him and Talakai (who I think we all agree can't be used defensively for 80 mins as a centre) then three lengths to rest of the pack.
 
Um... getting deep and running on to the ball is a fundamental skill that any decent coach would start teaching in under 7's, and at this level is a pre-requisite to being able to score from anything other than a kick or a crash play.

Go have a look at each of the tries the Sharks scored through the hands against the Warriors and see how deep the backs are at the play the ball (or scrum). Rugby League is a time and space game. You give your self time and space by being deep, and you take away the opponent's time and space by being at full speed when you receive the ball.

I watched the play in question. It's fine to look at that one play in isolation and say maybe player X could have pushed up a step earlier, but lack of effort in attack wasn't the reason the Sharks lost that game. They gave their opposition 70% possession and when they did get the ball back they didn't build any pressure - largely due to poor end of sets in the attacking end (kicking the ball dead and giving up penalties). Tired teams suck at attacking.
 
Sharks NRL Prospects said:
Um... getting deep and running on to the ball is a fundamental skill that any decent coach would start teaching in under 7's, and at this level is a pre-requisite to being able to score from anything other than a kick or a crash play.

Go have a look at each of the tries the Sharks scored through the hands against the Warriors and see how deep the backs are at the play the ball (or scrum). Rugby League is a time and space game. You give your self time and space by being deep, and you take away the opponent's time and space by being at full speed when you receive the ball.

I watched the play in question. It's fine to look at that one play in isolation and say maybe player X could have pushed up a step earlier, but lack of effort in attack wasn't the reason the Sharks lost that game. They gave their opposition 70% possession and when they did get the ball back they didn't build any pressure - largely due to poor end of sets in the attacking end (kicking the ball dead and giving up penalties). Tired teams suck at attacking.
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Would love you to correct where I'm wrong. I completely agree with you where you are looking at creating shape etc, but it often feels like when we are missing opportunities to push up to the advantage line in yardage, or after breaks/half breaks. The later is what frustrates me the most.

It used to be as simple as off the back of a break, get the ball wide to your strike men. It feels like for us we are going straight back into our systems to set up for a shape now. The Katoa break where he was run down by Radley was a good example of this (I think that was the one).
 
Proud Shark said:
Would love you to correct where I'm wrong. I completely agree with you where you are looking at creating shape etc, but it often feels like when we are missing opportunities to push up to the advantage line in yardage, or after breaks/half breaks. The later is what frustrates me the most.
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I think people are going to whinge either way mate. People want Brailey taking that run and looking for support, but in the past when Hynes made a living by pushing up on those types of plays people whinged that Brailey didn't run enough and Hynes was doing too much. If Kennedy is up Brailey's ass on that play and they decide to shift left people would whinge that Kennedy isn't on the ball and needs to be more involved. One of the best player's last year at doing what you are calling for here was Atkinson, but whenever he played off the bench everyone whinged because he "didn't have any impact".

I'm sure there are situations where Sharks players could have pushed up better but I don't think the OP is a great example.

Proud Shark said:
It used to be as simple as off the back of a break, get the ball wide to your strike men. It feels like for us we are going straight back into our systems to set up for a shape now. The Katoa break where he was run down by Radley was a good example of this (I think that was the one).
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On that one the players were ready on the left but Hiroti died with it. We can't know whether he got a call from a teammate or it was just Hiroti panicking a bit. In any case they still scored on that set by scattering the defence for a few tackles, so I wouldn't say that one hurt the team.

I agree though that on a play where the right winger gets tackled after a long intercept/breakdown run the smart play would to be looking to either expose the space in the middle (which Hynes does very well usually) or to get the ball to the left edge ASAP.
 
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Sharks NRL Prospects said:
I think people are going to whinge either way mate. People want Brailey taking that run and looking for support, but in the past when Hynes made a living by pushing up on those types of plays people whinged that Brailey didn't run enough and Hynes was doing too much. If Kennedy is up Brailey's ass on that play and they decide to shift left people would whinge that Kennedy isn't on the ball and needs to be more involved. One of the best player's last year at doing what you are calling for here was Atkinson, but whenever he played off the bench everyone whinged because he "didn't have any impact".

I'm sure there are situations where Sharks players could have pushed up better but I don't think the OP is a great example.


On that one the players were ready on the left but Hiroti died with it. We can't know whether he got a call from a teammate or it was just Hiroti panicking a bit. In any case they still scored on that set by scattering the defence for a few tackles, so I wouldn't say that one hurt the team.

I agree though that on a play where the right winger gets tackled after a long intercept/breakdown run the smart play would to be looking to either expose the space in the middle (which Hynes does very well usually) or to get the ball to the left edge ASAP.
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You can be sure of the bold! Atkinson was an interesting one, he'd be a great bench player with the current set up, I often felt like it didn't work because we were trying to fit 3 halves into a 2 half set up and we played to laterally. When he came on and just ran I thought he looked better.

I'd love to see a stat of linebreaks created v linebreaks converted to points. I feel like our percentage would be pretty low.
 
Proud Shark said:
You can be sure of the bold!
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100%

Proud Shark said:
Atkinson was an interesting one, he'd be a great bench player with the current set up, I often felt like it didn't work because we were trying to fit 3 halves into a 2 half set up and we played to laterally. When he came on and just ran I thought he looked better.
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I think people just have pre-conceived notions of what "impact" can be. Tuks playing 10 minutes to skittle blokes was deemed as impactful, but Atko throwing tip-ons, pushing up around the ruck, driving defensive line speed, getting involved in shift plays and pressuring kickers was apparently providing no value to the team and he was wasting a spot.


Proud Shark said:
I'd love to see a stat of linebreaks created v linebreaks converted to points. I feel like our percentage would be pretty low.
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On that play or the next play... maybe they are behind the speedier teams. There could also be a stat of how well the Sharks go at that with and without their fastest player (Ronnie).

Hard to say after that. In six-again land teams now play to hold down on the next play after that tackle so as to happily concede 6 more but not commit a professional foul.
 
Sharks NRL Prospects said:
100%


I think people just have pre-conceived notions of what "impact" can be. Tuks playing 10 minutes to skittle blokes was deemed as impactful, but Atko throwing tip-ons, pushing up around the ruck, driving defensive line speed, getting involved in shift plays and pressuring kickers was apparently providing no value to the team and he was wasting a spot.



On that play or the next play... maybe they are behind the speedier teams. There could also be a stat of how well the Sharks go at that with and without their fastest player (Ronnie).

Hard to say after that. In six-again land teams now play to hold down on the next play after that tackle so as to happily concede 6 more but not commit a professional foul.
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Agree with most of that. There were a couple of games where Atko looked to run first where I thought he was great, I don't think he was consistently effective in helping shift the ball, but that was obviously the plan and not his fault.

Fair point on us missing Ronnie, I'd wager he'd help in this regard.
 
Proud Shark said:
Agree with most of that. There were a couple of games where Atko looked to run first where I thought he was great, I don't think he was consistently effective in helping shift the ball, but that was obviously the plan and not his fault.

Fair point on us missing Ronnie, I'd wager he'd help in this regard.
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I mean after a break like you said above. He definitely contributed to that - even if they didn't score from it every time. Cowboys game up there comes to mind as one where they did score (Normal fixture game. Not the semi).
 
For me the issue when it is most painful to watch is less structured play (like the pictured where we are set up) and more mid tackle count when a ball goes short side or something and the people outside are flat footed.
Sometimes a little deep probably thinking about setting up something later, or missing the start and not catching up before someone (often Nicho) has to die with it*

In plays like above they need to time their run off the play the ball and the halves speed which should be easy enough to get right most of the time given consistency of practice. But with high level wrestle if you are the winger and trying to start your sprint to time to be in right spot at full pace at right moment, that probably can be a bit tricky at times.

* I think Nicho also likes to challenge to his side and just take the tackle if there is nothing that opens up, I think a lot of other halves would make the pass to someone even though they know it's not on, because they are supposed to pass and other people are supposed to be tackled.
He keeps better field position and draws in future defenders by going himself
 
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