Career Trajectory for Star Fullbacks (Holmes Comparison)

HaroldBishop

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I seriously cannot believe the hype in here and in the media about this, it's hysterical nonsense.
 
Sir Chadley

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Gards said:
We should all just be thankful we have something to argue about again
Click to expand...

Having a good balanced argument is fine.

But some people have agendas. For some reason or another.

I can cop a good argument when the combatants can see both sides of the argument. But the pig headedness of some that refuse to concede points or agree that they may be wrong in some areas really gets my goat.

It's why I cannot stand politics. Both sides roar to the world that they are right and if the other party says Black, they say White, sometimes just for the sake of it.

So, in this current debate, do I think Val should be moved back to the wing? Personally no, I think it's too soon to say he failed.
But I do agree he is not in tip top form.

It is absolutely laughable the amount of buffoons and ill informed people on social media who think it is their God given right to be judgemental about things.
I'll bet if each person on social media had to say the things they type to a person's face, 99% of them wouldn't even say it.

Something is horribly wrong with our world at the moment.
 
Gards

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Tongue in cheek Chad...with a smidge of nostalgia (remember when all our players were no hope garbage?) - I hear ya though on your comments, that's forum/internet for ya. If a one sided argument is presented though the better ones explain their logic, provide data points to validate it ect at least.

All things considered IMO keeping Holmes at FB is highly probable as the right thing to do even in the short term although with a sensible and fair time frame for improvement balanced out with what's best for the team for season 2018 (good luck flange...)
He won't cost us games because tbh I don't see him having as bad as game as that again so he should bounce back as he did multiple times last year and then it's a matter of him needing to rebuild on some solid consistent performances

I really wouldn't be upset seeing Duges get some time at FB just out of interest and for bit of a change but concede his limitations and that he is unlikely to be a long term solution
 
Sir Chadley

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Gards said:
Tongue in cheek Chad...with a smidge of nostalgia (remember when all our players were no hope garbage?) - I hear ya though on your comments, that's forum/internet for ya. If a one sided argument is presented though the better ones explain their logic, provide data points to validate it ect at least.

All things considered IMO keeping Holmes at FB is highly probable as the right thing to do even in the short term although with a sensible and fair time frame for improvement balanced out with what's best for the team for season 2018 (good luck flange...)
He won't cost us games because tbh I don't see him having as bad as game as that again so he should bounce back as he did multiple times last year and then it's a matter of him needing to rebuild on some solid consistent performances

I really wouldn't be upset seeing Duges get some time at FB just out of interest and for bit of a change but concede his limitations and that he is unlikely to be a long term solution
Click to expand...

All good Gards, I wasn't having a dig at you at all mate. :)
 
Milkshark

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Chad said:
Having a good balanced argument is fine.

But some people have agendas. For some reason or another.

I can cop a good argument when the combatants can see both sides of the argument. But the pig headedness of some that refuse to concede points or agree that they may be wrong in some areas really gets my goat.

It's why I cannot stand politics. Both sides roar to the world that they are right and if the other party says Black, they say White, sometimes just for the sake of it.

So, in this current debate, do I think Val should be moved back to the wing? Personally no, I think it's too soon to say he failed.
But I do agree he is not in tip top form.

It is absolutely laughable the amount of buffoons and ill informed people on social media who think it is their God given right to be judgemental about things.
I'll bet if each person on social media had to say the things they type to a person's face, 99% of them wouldn't even say it.

Something is horribly wrong with our world at the moment.
Click to expand...

Prob a dig me, that's cool.

I have no agenda, I call it as I see it. In my own opinion Val is not a fullback, I made that call last year and will stand by it. For me he lacks in many ways as a modern day fullback.

Do I hope he succeeds at fullback? Of course I do, but not at the detriment of the entire team. I feel like we are wasting precious time with an amazing squad that could easily challenge top 4 results. I do also feel like having Val at the back will greatly impact on a top 4 result unless he can super super super quickly turn his bad form around.

I don't blame our lack of success last year on him at all, but he did contribute to it through errors, lacks of trys and lack of try assists.

I cannot accept excuses like:

- its only game 1. We heard that excuse last year, it won't fly again this year
- he needs more time. He had all of last year at fullback.
- he's only young. Yes he is young, but he is on top dollars, and with that comes expectations. I don't feel sorry for a 22 year old on 700-800k a year. He is on that money because of his stellar 2016 season. His form since has been well down. This is a business built on winning games.
- if we move him he will leave the club. The club is bigger than any single player, everybody is replaceable. I want him to stay also but not if it means another 3 years of him trying to be a fullback

These are my thoughts and my thoughts alone. Perhaps I have less patience than many others, it could be so. I could be wrong and Holmes turns out to be some superstar fullback, I hope it's true.

But for now, what I can see is a kid struggling with the pressure of a full time fullback that perhaps needs a bit more time out on the wing.
 
BurgoShark

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ILLmac said:
Prob a dig me, that's cool.

I have no agenda, I call it as I see it. In my own opinion Val is not a fullback, I made that call last year and will stand by it. For me he lacks in many ways as a modern day fullback.

Do I hope he succeeds at fullback? Of course I do, but not at the detriment of the entire team. I feel like we are wasting precious time with an amazing squad that could easily challenge top 4 results. I do also feel like having Val at the back will greatly impact on a top 4 result unless he can super super super quickly turn his bad form around.

I don't blame our lack of success last year on him at all, but he did contribute to it through errors, lacks of trys and lack of try assists.

I cannot accept excuses like:

- its only game 1. We heard that excuse last year, it won't fly again this year
- he needs more time. He had all of last year at fullback.
- he's only young. Yes he is young, but he is on top dollars, and with that comes expectations. I don't feel sorry for a 22 year old on 700-800k a year. He is on that money because of his stellar 2016 season. His form since has been well down. This is a business built on winning games.
- if we move him he will leave the club. The club is bigger than any single player, everybody is replaceable. I want him to stay also but not if it means another 3 years of him trying to be a fullback

These are my thoughts and my thoughts alone. Perhaps I have less patience than many others, it could be so. I could be wrong and Holmes turns out to be some superstar fullback, I hope it's true.

But for now, what I can see is a kid struggling with the pressure of a full time fullback that perhaps needs a bit more time out on the wing.
Click to expand...

So what approach are you advocating? The rotation system? Val to the wing all year and let him play fullback late in a few games? Val to the wing all year and make him trial for the spot next year? Val to Newtown to play fullback?

The “he needs more time” argument is a valid one IMO. 20 games in the position is not enough.
 
Sir Chadley

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ILLmac said:
Prob a dig me, that's cool.

I have no agenda, I call it as I see it. In my own opinion Val is not a fullback, I made that call last year and will stand by it. For me he lacks in many ways as a modern day fullback.

Do I hope he succeeds at fullback? Of course I do, but not at the detriment of the entire team. I feel like we are wasting precious time with an amazing squad that could easily challenge top 4 results. I do also feel like having Val at the back will greatly impact on a top 4 result unless he can super super super quickly turn his bad form around.

I don't blame our lack of success last year on him at all, but he did contribute to it through errors, lacks of trys and lack of try assists.

I cannot accept excuses like:

- its only game 1. We heard that excuse last year, it won't fly again this year
- he needs more time. He had all of last year at fullback.
- he's only young. Yes he is young, but he is on top dollars, and with that comes expectations. I don't feel sorry for a 22 year old on 700-800k a year. He is on that money because of his stellar 2016 season. His form since has been well down. This is a business built on winning games.
- if we move him he will leave the club. The club is bigger than any single player, everybody is replaceable. I want him to stay also but not if it means another 3 years of him trying to be a fullback

These are my thoughts and my thoughts alone. Perhaps I have less patience than many others, it could be so. I could be wrong and Holmes turns out to be some superstar fullback, I hope it's true.

But for now, what I can see is a kid struggling with the pressure of a full time fullback that perhaps needs a bit more time out on the wing.
Click to expand...

Mate I wasn't having a dig at anyone in particular. Interesting to see you thought I was having a dig at you though.

From that point onwards your points are well made and in most cases make a good argument.
I do agree with Burgess though that he needs more time at fullback.
You say he's already had a year there and that is oodles of time but I don't agree.

Anyway we will see what happens tonight.
 
Milkshark

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Chad, Burgess:

I'm just stating that I have no agenda. I only want us to succeed.

Burgess, I think he needs more time on the wing and isn't ready for fullback responsibilities. I don't believe in the rotation system.

I would have rathered Val stay at fullback tonight than the rotation system we are going to try. That way he can at least succeed or fail and we would be closer to whatever result Flanno is trying to get out of him.

Good luck tonight guys.
 
Sir Chadley

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ILLmac said:
Chad, Burgess:

I'm just stating that I have no agenda. I only want us to succeed.

Burgess, I think he needs more time on the wing and isn't ready for fullback responsibilities. I don't believe in the rotation system.

I would have rathered Val stay at fullback tonight than the rotation system we are going to try. That way he can at least succeed or fail and we would be closer to whatever result Flanno is trying to get out of him.

Good luck tonight guys.
Click to expand...

All good mate. :) We'll resume the conversation tomorrow after tonight's game.
Really hope we can get the win.
 
Milkshark

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Chad said:
All good mate. :) We'll resume the conversation tomorrow after tonight's game.
Really hope we can get the win.
Click to expand...

haha yep, I really don't want to be angry at work all day tomorrow :)
 
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