Officially Unofficial Burgo's Fancy Stats

burgess1978

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Round 12 Middle Forwards.

I threw in the 2 Jets guys this week just to see how they are tracking. Colquhoun is playing high minutes with consistent output whereas Pele is providing attacking punch in short spurts (last game he played 33 minutes made up of 3 separate stints).

Good (short) stint from Hazelton. High involvement.



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burgess1978

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The 3 Jets guys in round 13.

Similar overall output from all three. As expected Pele had a higher attacking output, but played less minutes (even though he started).

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burgess1978

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bort - I've also been making some fancy stats for my own team. More to make sure everyone involved rather than to track output (I already know who my best workers are). For community footy you want to get every kid touching the ball.

It's been quite useful in determining where to tweak things and which players are doing a better job of getting the ball in to the right areas. I'm still adding in data from yesterday's game, but will throw a couple of those in here at some stage too :)
 

bort

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bort - I've also been making some fancy stats for my own team. More to make sure everyone involved rather than to track output (I already know who my best workers are). For community footy you want to get every kid touching the ball.

It's been quite useful in determining where to tweak things and which players are doing a better job of getting the ball in to the right areas. I'm still adding in data from yesterday's game, but will throw a couple of those in here at some stage too :)
Got the link to their stats pages?
Any hot tips as potential super coach pick ups?

How are you assessing getting the ball to right areas? If offensive workload is distributed how you would want?
 

burgess1978

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Got the link to their stats pages?
Any hot tips as potential super coach pick ups?
Young Burgess probably worth a look. Kicked 6 from 7 on the weekend including one from the right touchline. Has personally outscored 3 of the teams in the comp so far :)

If there was a stat for "made a half break, got tackled, and the team scored on the next play" he'd break the fantasy stat record.

How are you assessing getting the ball to right areas?
Moreso players/positions than areas. I measure involvement (runs, passes, kick returns, etc.) - but weighted. (E.g. Diving on a loose ball isn't worth as much as a hit up) then map that across the field (roughly). I don’t consider myself a good coach unless I’m involving everyone. I’d rather win by 4 points with a contribution from everyone than win by 40 by riding my best 5 kids.

If offensive workload is distributed how you would want?
One big thing I am striving for is for the passing to be distributed between more than just 2-3 players. If you watch most community or school footy outside of the high-end teams, 80% of the passing is done by the 9 and the 7 - with the 6 chipping in every now and then. I hate that because it teaches the other ten players that footy is about waiting for your turn to run. I want all of my players passing the ball in game situations, and more importantly I want at least 4 (ideally 5) players passing the ball regularly enough that they consider it part of their job.

E.g. Game 1 below was a trial game where my best 3 passers were all out injured and 4 kids from the age group below filling in for us. This would be a standard look for a "normal" junior team. Hooker at dummy half on almost every play with the halfback almost always involved. I cringed for the entire game, but it was a necessary evil with so many kids missing.

Over time, we have gotten those 3 injured players back - 2 in game 2, and the other in game 4. This gives the team a very different look. Not because they are better players, but because they have been coached to play in a team where everyone passes the ball and it's not their job to be involved in every single play. There are lots of simple little ways you can make this happen (e.g. centre gets to dummy half when the winger is tackled near the sideline) - but this is not the norm for juniors and it actually takes time to teach kids that this is OK. Most teams the hooker is at dummy half 100% of the time unless he is the one being tackled.

For the purpose of this graph, Player 4 and Player 5 are the "next most frequent passers". This changes depending on personnel - but you could read this as them being the lock and fullback (which was the case for game 4).

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apezza

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Young Burgess probably worth a look. Kicked 6 from 7 on the weekend including one from the right touchline. Has personally outscored 3 of the teams in the comp so far :)

If there was a stat for "made a half break, got tackled, and the team scored on the next play" he'd break the fantasy stat record.


Moreso players/positions than areas. I measure involvement (runs, passes, kick returns, etc.) - but weighted. (E.g. Diving on a loose ball isn't worth as much as a hit up) then map that across the field (roughly). I don’t consider myself a good coach unless I’m involving everyone. I’d rather win by 4 points with a contribution from everyone than win by 40 by riding my best 5 kids.


One big thing I am striving for is for the passing to be distributed between more than just 2-3 players. If you watch most community or school footy outside of the high-end teams, 80% of the passing is done by the 9 and the 7 - with the 6 chipping in every now and then. I hate that because it teaches the other ten players that footy is about waiting for your turn to run. I want all of my players passing the ball in game situations, and more importantly I want at least 4 (ideally 5) players passing the ball regularly enough that they consider it part of their job.

E.g. Game 1 below was a trial game where my best 3 passers were all out injured and 4 kids from the age group below filling in for us. This would be a standard look for a "normal" junior team. Hooker at dummy half on almost every play with the halfback almost always involved. I cringed for the entire game, but it was a necessary evil with so many kids missing.

Over time, we have gotten those 3 injured players back - 2 in game 2, and the other in game 4. This gives the team a very different look. Not because they are better players, but because they have been coached to play in a team where everyone passes the ball and it's not their job to be involved in every single play. There are lots of simple little ways you can make this happen (e.g. centre gets to dummy half when the winger is tackled near the sideline) - but this is not the norm for juniors and it actually takes time to teach kids that this is OK. Most teams the hooker is at dummy half 100% of the time unless he is the one being tackled.

For the purpose of this graph, Player 4 and Player 5 are the "next most frequent passers". This changes depending on personnel - but you could read this as them being the lock and fullback (which was the case for game 4).

View attachment 27299
You must have the best under 8s team in the country!!

On a serious note, it's amazing all the stats NRL clubs must do - yet clubs / players make the same basic mistakes all the time with obvious signs of improvement.

Look at us for example - you don't need stats to show how poor we are in opposition 20, no plan B when the Hynes / Moylan combo isn't clicking etc.
 

burgess1978

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You must have the best under 8s team in the country!!

On a serious note, it's amazing all the stats NRL clubs must do - yet clubs / players make the same basic mistakes all the time with obvious signs of improvement.

Look at us for example - you don't need stats to show how poor we are in opposition 20, no plan B when the Hynes / Moylan combo isn't clicking etc.
I think it's under-estimated how much situational stats teams and coaches would feed in to their game plan. E.g. when a team kicks to the same winger all game, it might be because they think he is shaky under the high ball, but more than likely they have a whole bunch of analytics that says the opposition makes less metres on average working out of that corner than the other one, or that their kicker makes more metres kicking on one side of the ruck than the other.

Not going for "best" btw. Going for happiest. Happy kids who feel engaged keep playing footy. It's not my job to turn them in to gun players; it's my job to keep them playing until they are 15-16 so that if/when they are ready someone else can :)
 
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Sparkles

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I think it's under-estimated how much situational stats teams and coaches would feed in to their game plan. E.g. when a team kicks to the same winger all game, it might be because they think he is shaky under the high ball, but more than likely they have a whole bunch of analytics that says the opposition makes less metres on average working out of that corner than the other one, or that their kicker makes more metres kicking on one side of the ruck than the other.

Not going for "best" btw. Going for happiest. Happy kids who feel engaged keep playing footy. It's not my job to turn them in to gun players; it's my job to keep them playing until they are 16/17 so that someone else can :)
We need to put you forward for the Warriors gig mate :)
(not that i'd wish that upon you)
 

apezza

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We need to put you forward for the Warriors gig mate :)
(not that i'd wish that upon you)
I would love to see his conversation with SJ:

"Shaun, take a seat. I have some stats to go through with you" Shaun squirms in his seat.
 

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I would love to see his conversation with SJ:

"Shaun, take a seat. I have some stats to go through with you" Shaun squirms in his seat.
SJ: From 2014? That's what I've been referring to throughout my career.
 

bort

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Some interesting stats in this one Burg if you haven’t had a look.
 

burgess1978

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Some interesting stats in this one Burg if you haven’t had a look.
Thanks mate

He has Royce Hunt 4th in the comp for run%

He uses a slightly different way of calculating it, but his run% stat is s similar concept to what I’m doing in this thread for attacking output.

High involvement rates for Rudolf and Tolman also aligns with what my stuff shows.

Main difference is that he uses “runs” rather than metres - and he has access to stats on support runs. Using runs rather than metres is something I considered, but this started as a discussion on comparing output in metres, so I stuck with that.

Have you seen the sock height one?
 
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burgess1978

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Another one that @bort will probably appreciate, but the rest of you probably won't care for...

It's pretty common in community footy for a kid to join the team, turn up to every session for 4-5 weeks, and then get a bit slack. This is what has happened in my team for a handful of kids - but I want to understand whether I was just being too tough on these players - since they may be missing patches for legitimate reasons.

Soo I graphed the attendance of my entire team across the season (so far) to see the trends. The graph below shows the worst four players, plus one other. The red scribbled arrow is Easter, and the dotted line is the team average (for everyone else).

The green line here represents a player who missed a bit of time with legitimate injuries and some other stuff. Now that those issues are behind him, his line is trending back up to the team average.

The yellow line here represents a player who is a bit of an anomaly. It's actually quite rare for kids to join the team, immediately be slack, and keep playing (usually they drop out).

The other three lines you see here (navy blue, orange and grey) fit the trend of being great to start the year and then dropping off, and this gives me a pretty good indication of where these three kids are at. While they are still around they are all missing more training than they are attending, and if I can't fix this in the final two months, we will lose them to the sport (in my past experience, a player who comes to training less than 65% of the time never comes back the following year). This is really sad - particularly for the kid represented by the grey line. He is currently one of the best players in the team and has a lot of potential.

It's not all doom and gloom though. This just tells me who to pick on the bench. I've got another 13 kids (including the green line) who are almost always here, and two more who just joined :)


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