Officially Unofficial Burgo's Fancy Stats

bort

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Those are drops mate.
Can't think straight with all this covid, was reading it wrong way haha
Well that is concerning particularly Nikora! Oh yes there he is, sitting outright second for ineffective tackles
At least last round was a bit better
 

burgess1978

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Of course the odd man out here with all of this Burgo is Trindall. He's obviously there just in case there is an injury to Hynes or Moylan and play the last 5 or 10 minutes if we're on top and someone needs an early rest.
Yep

Is this an obvious ploy from Fitz
Seems like he wants someone on the bench to cover injuries to the spine. Trindall is the best choice currently.

could it be detrimental to the team in the long run?
Not sure how exactly it could hurt the team. Some might argue it could be detrimental to Trindall's development as a halfback, but plenty of very good halves played jack-of-all-trades or minor bench roles early in their careers (Cronk, Walters, Keary, Dykes, Widdop, Munster).

Do you think it would be more beneficial to have another forward on the bench in place of Trindall?
Under the current rotation - no need. Toby, BHU, Fifita and Tolman are all playing well and within their wheelhouse for minutes. McInnes and Finucane could easily play more at the same quality, so why add an extra body? Keep Trindall on the bench as injury cover and continue to do what is working.

The one (possibly forced) change we may see is Wilton or Talakai coming back to the bench. If that happens, either of them could take Fifita's role as the low-minute middle and push him out of the 17.
 

burgess1978

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Can't think straight with all this covid, was reading it wrong way haha
Well that is concerning particularly Nikora! Oh yes there he is, sitting outright second for ineffective tackles
At least last round was a bit better
Maybe this is a more telling graph. Almost everyone has been better in the last two games than the first two - but Nikora and Talakai are still well below everyone else.

Finucane bucking the trend by missing 2 tackles instead of 1. Soft!


1649135488661.png
 
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Chad

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Yep


Seems like he wants someone on the bench to cover injuries to the spine. Trindall is the best choice currently.


Not sure how exactly it could hurt the team. Some might argue it could be detrimental to Trindall's development as a halfback, but plenty of very good halves played jack-of-all-trades or minor bench roles early in their careers (Cronk, Walters, Keary, Dykes, Widdop, Munster).


Under the current rotation - no need. Toby, BHU, Fifita and Tolman are all playing well and within their wheelhouse for minutes. McInnes and Finucane could easily play more at the same quality, so why add an extra body? Keep Trindall on the bench as injury cover and continue to do what is working.

The one (possibly forced) change we may see is Wilton or Talakai coming back to the bench. If that happens, either of them could take Fifita's role as the low-minute middle and push him out of the 17.
Thanks mate, great answers.

The only other change that will happen is when Wade comes back. I know we've had the discussion before, in your eyes Wilton deserves to keep his place over Nikora. But if Nikora keeps playing like he did last week, it's going to be a tough choice.

And what is your opinion on Wade playing either left edge or middle? Some other guys were suggesting he come back through the bench (which I think is perfectly acceptable) and relieving Dale or BHU or Toby.
 
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Thanks mate, great answers.

The only other change that will happen is when Wade comes back. I know we've had the discussion before, in your eyes Wilton deserves to keep his place over Nikora. But if Nikora keeps playing like he did last week, it's going to be a tough choice.

And what is your opinion on Wade playing either left edge or middle? Some other guys were suggesting he come back through the bench (which I think is perfectly acceptable) and relieving Dale or BHU or Toby.
Tough choices are good to have for a footy team winning games.
 

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Thanks mate, great answers.

The only other change that will happen is when Wade comes back. I know we've had the discussion before, in your eyes Wilton deserves to keep his place over Nikora. But if Nikora keeps playing like he did last week, it's going to be a tough choice.

And what is your opinion on Wade playing either left edge or middle? Some other guys were suggesting he come back through the bench (which I think is perfectly acceptable) and relieving Dale or BHU or Toby.
Yep. That was possibly Nikora's best game ever in the NRL. I still would have liked for him to have thrown that pass though :mad:

Wade in to the middle would give me a hat-trick. I'm up for that, and Fitz seems to be OK with a steady-steady approach for McInnes so why-not Wade.


July 4 2020 (Hynes had played 1 NRL game and the mood around Brailey was "we let the better brother go")...

1. Sign Blayke for ten more years
2. Move Wade to 13 next year
3. Nico Hynes would look good in Sharkies colours

Next player in line from the Melbourne Storm fullback factory. Best player not currently playing NRL (now that several others like Grant, Best, etc. are playing up). Can play anywhere from 1-7 but fullback is his best spot. Can't get a run at Melbourne. Would be a great fit for Bomber's system. Think Drinkwater with less razzle-dazzle, but better positional/defensive play.

Gotta get used to adding the H for Nicho. For some reason he went from Nico to Nicho between 2018 and 2019.

I am so smrt.

Tough choices are good to have for a footy team winning games.
Had you in mind on that one ;)
 
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Yep. That was possibly Nikora's best game ever in the NRL. I still would have liked for him to have thrown that pass though :mad:

Wade in to the middle would give me a hat-trick. I'm up for that, and Fitz seems to be OK with a steady-steady approach for McInnes.


Had you in mind on that one ;)
Credit where it’s due. Nikora has lifted after the first 2 rounds IMO.
I thought he was a bit lazy after showing much more in the trials but the last couple of games, he has lifted. Maybe contract year and showing his wears, maybe Fitz has lite a fuse under him. Who knows, but as i said, Credit where it’s due.

Same with Moyza. I was hoping for a Trindall/Nicho combo, but Moyza has been pretty good for us and is combining really well (Would like to see him take some kick pressure off of Nicho, but our game plan is working).
Whilst I‘d still like to see Trindall in the side, I’m not sure 5-10 mins every game helps his development (even if it is NRL minutes).
I’m sure Fitz has a plan, but maybe Tricky should get 80 mins with the Jets to keep up match fitness in particular and work on his game for if/when he is needed for 80 mins.
 

andrew's_sharks

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Credit where it’s due. Nikora has lifted after the first 2 rounds IMO.
I thought he was a bit lazy after showing much more in the trials but the last couple of games, he has lifted. Maybe contract year and showing his wears, maybe Fitz has lite a fuse under him. Who knows, but as i said, Credit where it’s due.

Same with Moyza. I was hoping for a Trindall/Nicho combo, but Moyza has been pretty good for us and is combining really well (Would like to see him take some kick pressure off of Nicho, but our game plan is working).
Whilst I‘d still like to see Trindall in the side, I’m not sure 5-10 mins every game helps his development (even if it is NRL minutes).
I’m sure Fitz has a plan, but maybe Tricky should get 80 mins with the Jets to keep up match fitness in particular and work on his game for if/when he is needed for 80 mins.
Players in professional sport who don't play or play reduced minutes due to being a sub typically make up the minutes with extra training so they aren't under done. They generally do MAS (Maximal Aerobic Speed Training) whilst the others do recovery sessions, some clubs even make them do it on game day. Although nothing replaces match fitness, he should still actually be close to it and closer than most people realise.
 

burgess1978

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Players in professional sport who don't play or play reduced minutes due to being a sub typically make up the minutes with extra training so they aren't under done. They generally do MAS (Maximal Aerobic Speed Training) whilst the others do recovery sessions, some clubs even make them do it on game day. Although nothing replaces match fitness, he should still actually be close to it and closer than most people realise.
I think the concern is moreso "time at the helm" than fitness. If he is going to be an NRL halfback is it better for him to play 5-10 minutes off the bench or is it better to be playing 80 in NSW Cup? No real answer. You just have to pick a path and hope it works - or maybe Fitz just sees him as "quality depth" and he is right where Fitz wants him.

Right now I think Trindall is the best man for the job as the "injury cover" guy, but in a fully healthy squad maybe one of Tracey, Berrell or even Miller could actually be better choices if the preference is Trindall playing 80 for the Jets.

How much did it effect Kyle Flanagan's development playing so little football in 2019? There is no way of knowing - but having him go from designated sitter to starting NRL halfback (at the Roosters) certainly wasn't the right path for him. Someone should have done something differently.
 
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sharks2010

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I disagree there Burgess, I think it's more beneficial for tricky to be playing a full 80 at halfback for Newtown rather than 10 minutes as a floater in the nrl
 

burgess1978

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I disagree there Burgess, I think it's more beneficial for tricky to be playing a full 80 at halfback for Newtown rather than 10 minutes as a floater in the nrl
I didn't actually state a preference mate. I just said it comes down to what the coach wants for him.

What I said was that based on these graphs there is no need to add another middle forward to the bench, so having a "floater" on the bench is definitely worthwhile. Of the available options for that role he I believe that he is the best choice currently BUT you could pick one of the other blokes if you want Trindall playing more time in #7.

Trindall, Miller, Metcalf. Berrell, Tracey
 
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sharks2010

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I didn't actually state a preference mate. I just said it comes down to what the coach wants for him.

What I said was that based on these graphs there is no need to add another middle forward to the bench, so having a "floater" on the bench is definitely worthwhile. Of the available options for that role he I believe that he is the best choice currently BUT you could pick one of the other blokes if you want Trindall playing more time in #7.

Trindall, Miller, Metcalf. Berrell, Tracey
Does make it hard for us to juggle 4 forwards on the bench. Weren't exactly robinson crusoe in having the 4th bench player playing sub standard minutes

I would just prefer our next in line half playing regular 80 minute games, perhaps Tracey could fill that bench utility roll once fit
 

burgess1978

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Does make it hard for us to juggle 4 forwards on the bench. Weren't exactly robinson crusoe in having the 4th bench player playing sub standard minutes

I would just prefer our next in line half playing regular 80 minute games, perhaps Tracey could fill that bench utility roll once fit
He's playing 70 minute games at the moment. Hopefully by year-end he is playing 80 for the Jets though ;)

 

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I think the concern is moreso "time at the helm" than fitness. If he is going to be an NRL halfback is it better for him to play 5-10 minutes off the bench or is it better to be playing 80 in NSW Cup? No real answer. You just have to pick a path and hope it works - or maybe Fitz just sees him as "quality depth" and he is right where Fitz wants him.

Right now I think Trindall is the best man for the job as the "injury cover" guy, but in a fully healthy squad maybe one of Tracey, Berrell or even Miller could actually be better choices if the preference is Trindall playing 80 for the Jets.

How much did it effect Kyle Flanagan's development playing so little football in 2019? There is no way of knowing - but having him go from designated sitter to starting NRL halfback (at the Roosters) certainly wasn't the right path for him. Someone should have done something differently.
Does Trindall train with the first grade side if he plays for Newtown?

Trindall's issues don't see to be super technical, more situational. The impression you get is that he's not sure what to do, when. Will he get the guidance he needs to fix those things in the lower grades? Or should he be under Fitz' wing (and Moylan's I guess) training with the first grade side and grabbing his 10 minutes on game day?
 

burgess1978

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Does Trindall train with the first grade side if he plays for Newtown?

Trindall's issues don't see to be super technical, more situational. The impression you get is that he's not sure what to do, when. Will he get the guidance he needs to fix those things in the lower grades? Or should he be under Fitz' wing (and Moylan's I guess) training with the first grade side and grabbing his 10 minutes on game day?
All NRL players train with the NRL team all week, and then (usually) will do a Friday or Saturday session with the Cup team.

This is the same for all teams. E.g. Melbourne's squad all live in Melbourne, and then the extras will fly to Brisbane on Friday arvo and do a Captain's run on Saturday with the Q Cup team before their game. They usually maintain a T&T squad of guys from the Sunny Coast shuttling back and forth each week too. I'm pretty sure Chris Lewis did it for a few seasons. Nicho did it for 6 months. Olam, Pene, Schonig, Booth, Tui, Grant, Hughes, Pap, Smith, Johns all did it too at various times.

This is why it can suck to be a Cup player sometimes. Earn your spot, play well, get named in the 17, train all week including Friday night, get told by the coach after training Friday night that you are not playing because the NRL team is sending Joe Bloggs down and he happens to play in your spot. Nobody in your team has seen Joe Bloggs play or even met him, but he's got an NRL contract ...

I once played a game where Wes Patten turned up 40 minutes before kick-off and started at halfback for us. Nobody knew he was coming and it was the first time anyone in our club had met him. He put me over for a try though, so all was forgiven :)
 
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Sparkles

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All NRL players train with the NRL team all week, and then (usually) will do a Friday or Saturday session with the Cup team.

This is the same for all teams. E.g. Melbourne's squad all live in Melbourne, and then the extras will fly to Brisbane on Friday arvo and do a Captain's run on Saturday with the Q Cup team before their game. They usually maintain a T&T squad of guys from the Sunny Coast shuttling back and forth each week too. I'm pretty sure Chris Lewis did it for a few seasons. Nicho did it for 6 months. Olam, Pene, Schonig, Booth, Tui, Grant, Hughes, Pap, Smith, Johns all did it too at various times.

This is why it can suck to be a Cup player sometimes. Earn your spot, play well, get named in the 17, train all week including Friday night, get told by the coach after training Friday night that you are not playing because the NRL team is sending Joe Bloggs down and he happens to play in your spot. Nobody in your team has seen Joe Bloggs play or even met him, but he's got an NRL contract ...

I once played a game where Wes Patten turned up 40 minutes before kick-off and started at halfback for us. Nobody knew he was coming and it was the first time anyone in our club had met him. He put me over for a try though, so all was forgiven :)
Well that's alright then. Trindall to Newtown and get Patton out of retirement
 

Shortfin Mako

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All NRL players train with the NRL team all week, and then (usually) will do a Friday or Saturday session with the Cup team.

This is the same for all teams. E.g. Melbourne's squad all live in Melbourne, and then the extras will fly to Brisbane on Friday arvo and do a Captain's run on Saturday with the Q Cup team before their game. They usually maintain a T&T squad of guys from the Sunny Coast shuttling back and forth each week too. I'm pretty sure Chris Lewis did it for a few seasons. Nicho did it for 6 months. Olam, Pene, Schonig, Booth, Tui, Grant, Hughes, Pap, Smith, Johns all did it too at various times.

This is why it can suck to be a Cup player sometimes. Earn your spot, play well, get named in the 17, train all week including Friday night, get told by the coach after training Friday night that you are not playing because the NRL team is sending Joe Bloggs down and he happens to play in your spot. Nobody in your team has seen Joe Bloggs play or even met him, but he's got an NRL contract ...

I once played a game where Wes Patten turned up 40 minutes before kick-off and started at halfback for us. Nobody knew he was coming and it was the first time anyone in our club had met him. He put me over for a try though, so all was forgiven :)

We always talk about the importance of the team playing together. Doesn’t this disrupt the cup team?
 

bort

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We always talk about the importance of the team playing together. Doesn’t this disrupt the cup team?
Tremendously

But all NRL linked teams (and down the chain) are pretty used to it.

I guess you just hope the guys coming in are good enough to make the disruption worth it
 
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