Official 2024 NRL General Discussion

[Vichyssoise]

The NRL should do a sponsored lottery on the Monday before each round to determine which player is going to play for which team on the weekend.
That would be really wild.

 

[Born&bred]

From a fans perspective, I love the idea of a draft. It's awesome off season content, and something for the teams in a rebuild to be excited for. I get the arguments against from a player and club perspective, but I'd absolutely be for it if we could find a way to make it work.

How can you be for it? For the young folk out there, we had the biggest junior nursery in the league years ago, long before Penrith.

What sabotaged that nursery back then was all the cheque book teams, along with our financial disasters and in some ways, mismanagement - we've lost more future stars over the years than most.

 

[Proud Shark]

How can you be for it? For the young folk out there, we had the biggest junior nursery in the league years ago, long before Penrith.

What sabotaged that nursery back then was all the cheque book teams, along with our financial disasters and in some ways, mismanagement - we've lost more future stars over the years than most.

I think the important point is if it can be done right.

I believe there is value in further trying to equalises the competition via a draft. I also think it serves to shine a stronger light on junior systems and those coming through. And the NBA/NFL/NHL drafts are great.

I don't know all the answers, as you definitely can't afford to disincentive teams developing players. They mentioned a system in which all teams could lock out one player per year or something? It's possible there just isn't enough junior talent coming through to make it work.

 

[Born&bred]

I think the important point is if it can be done right.

I believe there is value in further trying to equalises the competition via a draft. I also think it serves to shine a stronger light on junior systems and those coming through. And the NBA/NFL/NHL drafts are great.

I don't know all the answers, as you definitely can't afford to disincentive teams developing players. They mentioned a system in which all teams could lock out one player per year or something? It's possible there just isn't enough junior talent coming through to make it work.

How? It disadvantages clubs that produce juniors / develop juniors over teams that have minimal junior development.

All it does is reward ********.

 

[Flanno]

I think the important point is if it can be done right.

I believe there is value in further trying to equalises the competition via a draft. I also think it serves to shine a stronger light on junior systems and those coming through. And the NBA/NFL/NHL drafts are great.

I don't know all the answers, as you definitely can't afford to disincentive teams developing players. They mentioned a system in which all teams could lock out one player per year or something? It's possible there just isn't enough junior talent coming through to make it work.

Equalise by making it less fair?

Rewarding mediocrity and punishing success to me doesn’t sound like a good idea. Why does the team that ran dead last get to pick the best young player. Wouldn’t teams prefer to get the wooden spoon rather than finish 16th if that’s the case?

Not to mention the player involved having presumably no say in the matter? Seems like it shouldn’t even be legal

 

[Flanno]

How? It disadvantages clubs that produce juniors / develop juniors over teams that have minimal junior development.

All it does is reward ********.

Exactly this, the salary cap already means you can’t keep all your best juniors, but at least you can try and prioritise keeping your best few.

Introducing something whereby Tigers or Titans can just pick off ours or Penriths best juniors every year seems like bullshit to me

 

[apezza]

There's a working party recommending this with some of the best administrators in the game, plus the ARLC (which every club is a stakeholder) needs to sign off, so there must be some merit to it that isn't obvious to us

 

[Flanno]

There's a working party recommending this with some of the best administrators in the game, plus the ARLC (which every club is a stakeholder) needs to sign off, so there must be some merit to it that isn't obvious to us

Let’s see. Bunker has been pretty crap for the game.

I doubt the draft will get through anyway, it’s something that gets mentioned all the time

 

[bort]

You can’t disincentivise the teams from developing the junior pathways… which means the NRL needs to take them all over for a draft to work

Equalise by making it less fair?

Rewarding mediocrity and punishing success to me doesn’t sound like a good idea. Why does the team that ran dead last get to pick the best young player. Wouldn’t teams prefer to get the wooden spoon rather than finish 16th if that’s the case?

Not to mention the player involved having presumably no say in the matter? Seems like it shouldn’t even be legal

There’s plenty of sports that use drafts without it being ‘illegal’. Once it’s a mainstay in the league arguing playing a sport that has a draft system putting you into that draft doesn’t carry much weight. Tricky bit is putting it in.

And there aren’t half or more of the leagues fighting for last spot - although you can’t say there has never been any tanking.
But tanking = worse performances which cost sponsorship dollars, builds culture of failure and is difficult to get player (competitive athletes with careers on the line) to buy into. To then just get the best lottery ticket is pretty risky.

It can be ugly though. As a patriots fan in nfl there’s have been fans who want to see the team tank last couple seasons and they’re in a rebuild

 

[Flanno]

You can’t disincentivise the teams from developing the junior pathways… which means the NRL needs to take them all over for a draft to

There’s plenty of sports that use drafts without it being ‘illegal’. Once it’s a mainstay in the league arguing playing a sport that has a draft system putting you into that draft doesn’t carry much weight. Tricky bit is putting it in.

And there aren’t half or more of the leagues fighting for last spot - although you can’t say there has never been any tanking.
But tanking = worse performances which cost sponsorship dollars, builds culture of failure and is difficult to get player (competitive athletes with careers on the line) to buy into. To then just get the best lottery ticket is pretty risky.

It can be ugly though. As a patriots fan in nfl there’s have been fans who want to see the team tank last couple seasons and they’re in a rebuild

Yeah I know it’s used in other sports as well, but that’s why I said it sounds like something that should be illegal. Like many other things that exist but may in the future be illegal, such as gambling ads. Wasn’t that long ago players were punching on and shoulder charges were applauded.

I don’t follow the sports where draft exists so maybe you can explain it to me, has there ever been a case where a player was picked to go somewhere he really didn’t want to go?

What, if for example, all their family is in Sydney and then PNG (in the future), NZ or a QLD club pick them up? Does the player just have to accept it and move?

 

[bort]

Yeah I know it’s used in other sports as well, but that’s why I said it sounds like something that should be illegal. Like many other things that exist but may in the future be illegal, such as gambling ads. Wasn’t that long ago players were punching on and shoulder charges were applauded.

I don’t follow the sports where draft exists so maybe you can explain it to me, has there ever been a case where a player was picked to go somewhere he really didn’t want to go?

What, if for example, all their family is in Sydney and then PNG (in the future), NZ or a QLD club pick them up? Does the player just have to accept it and move?

For the most part, yes

It’s the system that’s been in place the whole time joining that sport has been their dream. And it pays massive money to be drafted and even more if you go there and do well.

In NFL I think there’s been a couple prominent times it’s happened, but very few. Always the opportunity to trade there pick or player and other teams that’d be happy to fork out for them.

Biggest difference is there’s a lot more money on the line to be moving for than NRL.

I’m not particularly for a draft in the NRL - and tanking talk and celebrating wins from team I follow are putrid to me (and a lot of US supporters too though). It just also is a system that can work fine.
Suddenly introducing it would be very tough though.

 

[Guardshark]

From a fans perspective, I love the idea of a draft. It's awesome off season content, and something for the teams in a rebuild to be excited for. I get the arguments against from a player and club perspective, but I'd absolutely be for it if we could find a way to make it work.

Honestly I think it's dogshit. Clubs are succesful from good admin and training staff not just talented players. The tigers have had Moses, Teddy, Sharon Woods and Luke Br(c)ooks all at various points and they're still total flops. As far as I can tell all this draft will do is force players to play certain clubs which they'll probably hate.

Imagine Stonestreet and Brailey don't get to play for their local club in the sharks and have to f**k off to NZ/Titans/Tigers/Dolphins or WA/PNG (when they come around) and either lift them off the bottom of the ladder or watch their careers tank.

 

[Vichyssoise]

I think the important point is if it can be done right.

I believe there is value in further trying to equalises the competition via a draft. I also think it serves to shine a stronger light on junior systems and those coming through. And the NBA/NFL/NHL drafts are great.

I don't know all the answers, as you definitely can't afford to disincentive teams developing players. They mentioned a system in which all teams could lock out one player per year or something? It's possible there just isn't enough junior talent coming through to make it work.

But as you well know, the thing is none of these leagues or their chartered teams control junior development. It's not their role. It's mostly down to schools and universities within the NCAA or similar organisations.

Here, given the current structure of the sport, a draft might work if teams were able to "protect" some of their juniors from the draft (say for example, based on the strength of a particular clubs catchment area, 5 or 10% of the players) while the rest could be picked by other teams in a system akin to what happens with expansion teams in the US... And that's a big IF.

That said the AFL seems to be doing a good job running a draft so maybe the NRL could just copy that.

 

[Proud Shark]

How? It disadvantages clubs that produce juniors / develop juniors over teams that have minimal junior development.

All it does is reward ********.

I did say I don't know how to go about smoothing out those issues. I just like the idea of it existing if they can do it right.

The NRL would have to invest massively in the development part of the game to negate this. They talked about teams potentially being able to protect some juniors, which would still give us incentive to work at it and keep the best ones.

Equalise by making it less fair?

Rewarding mediocrity and punishing success to me doesn’t sound like a good idea. Why does the team that ran dead last get to pick the best young player. Wouldn’t teams prefer to get the wooden spoon rather than finish 16th if that’s the case?

Not to mention the player involved having presumably no say in the matter? Seems like it shouldn’t even be legal

Is it currently fair that different clubs have different nursery's to draw from? The fact that more kids play league in western sydney than anywhere else in the country isn't down to Penrith, but more down to demographic and socio economic factors.

Yes they do well to develop those juniors, so the NRL would have to take over a lot of this investment.

On tanking, I know the NHL use a raffle system for first pick, so you're most likely to get first pick coming last but it's by no means guaranteed. I'm sure this doesn't negate it completely, but it helps.

The AFL also have a draft here. I'm not exactly sure of the details of how they make it work, but they aren't paying US sport money and it works for them.

 

[stormshark]

Concepts good, the devil will be in the detail. Comp needs evening up a bit imho.

 

[Vichyssoise]

Concepts good, the devil will be in the detail. Comp needs evening up a bit imho.

Quite frankly, I think it's fine. 4 different teams have faced Penrith in their 5 GF and 3 of them hadn't been to that stage of the season for at least 7 years.
I think the recent dominance of Penrith and the consistency of Melbourne for 20 years is skewing the perspective.
Sure some teams really suck, like the Tigers, but it's not like either West or Balmain were powerhouses even before the merger.

Edit: My point is some organisations are better than others and the draft won't change that fact. If clubs don't improve their setup, the draft is just another crutch that won't help the basket case clubs beyond papering some cracks.

 

[MrDravid]

That said the AFL seems to be doing a good job running a draft so maybe the NRL could just copy that.

The AFL seem to have some allowance for junior development, with academy picks getting priority for the clubs that "developed" them (although it seems like a lot of times, it comes down to kid A grew up and played in this area, so we get to claim him). For most kids though, I imagine the development happens at a school or local level, without a lot of club input.

Most kids are also drafted into AFL teams when they turn 18, so they finish school and get drafted into an AFL team and continue their development there.

I do wonder how that would all translate into NRL land... would clubs step out of u18s development? You would hope they would get rewarded for their development in the draft, but does this make it viable to keep doing it to the same extent? How many 18 year olds who get drafted, would slot straight into first grade? Or do you just give them a year or two and poach them anyway?

 

[Born&bred]

Equalise by making it less fair?

Rewarding mediocrity and punishing success to me doesn’t sound like a good idea. Why does the team that ran dead last get to pick the best young player. Wouldn’t teams prefer to get the wooden spoon rather than finish 16th if that’s the case?

Not to mention the player involved having presumably no say in the matter? Seems like it shouldn’t even be legal

Pretty sure it was ruled to be a restraint of trade when it went to court last time.

 

[MrDravid]

Pretty sure it was ruled to be a restraint of trade when it went to court last time.

Yeah it was something like that... although how the AFL can basically do the same thing has always puzzled me. Has no one ever taken them to court?

 

[Born&bred]

Yeah it was something like that... although how the AFL can basically do the same thing has always puzzled me. Has no one ever taken them to court?

I'd say all parties must in agreement in that case.