2023 NRL General Discussion

[HaroldBishop]

Glad it is a coincidence and not a sign we have another 28 seasons to go for next premiership.

Who says it's not?

 

[Proud Shark]

Who says it's not?

Me.

 

[HaroldBishop]

Me.

Longer?

 

[Proud Shark]

Longer?

My magic 8 ball didn't elaborate.

 

[Western Sharkie]

My magic 8 ball didn't elaborate.

What about your crystal ball then?

 

[bort]

At least Sifa keeping Riccio on side

Triple M NRL on Instagram: "Referees, Mad Monday updates and the worst journo in the NRL...🤔 | @woodsy2040’s epic Red Carpet tour!"

1,006 likes, 11 comments - triplem_nrl on September 29, 2022: "Referees, Mad Monday updates and the worst journo in the NRL...🤔 | @woodsy2040’s epic Red Carpet tour!"

www.instagram.com

 

[BurgoShark]

This one is not Rugby League specific, but is relevant.

A Canadian concussion expert has recommended that bodychecking is introduced at 18. Currently it is 14 for some leagues.

Very similar to the discussion around raising the age for introducing tackling in Rugby League. Currently it is half way through u8’s, with safe play code until my the end of u15’s. A concussion expert recently recommended that this is changed to after a player’s 14th birthday (no tackling until 15’s).

There is a slightly different focus in the research. RL guy was looking at CTE (long term effects) whereas hockey guy is looking at PCS (short to medium term effects).

New study recommends youth hockey leagues ban bodychecking until age 18 | TSN

Canadian neurosurgeon Charles Tator says too many young players are suffering the effects of brain trauma from permitted bodychecking, Rick Westhead writes.

www.tsn.ca

I think it is inevitable that these changes will be made. Just a matter of time. Could be 5 years, could be 25, but it will happen.

This is probably the most interesting quote. Imo this is the same for tackling.

“There is a common misconception that introducing bodychecking at an early age can help prevent injuries such as concussion by ensuring that children are skilled in how to withstand a bodycheck, when in fact there is no data to support this,” the study said.

 

[Sparkles]

This one is not Rugby League specific, but is relevant.

A Canadian concussion expert has recommended that bodychecking is introduced at 18. Currently it is 14 for some leagues.

Very similar to the discussion around raising the age for introducing tackling in Rugby League. Currently it is half way through u8’s, with safe play code until my the end of u15’s. A concussion expert recently recommended that this is changed to after a player’s 14th birthday (no tackling until 15’s).

There is a slightly different focus in the research. RL guy was looking at CTE (long term effects) whereas hockey guy is looking at PCS (short to medium term effects).

New study recommends youth hockey leagues ban bodychecking until age 18 | TSN

Canadian neurosurgeon Charles Tator says too many young players are suffering the effects of brain trauma from permitted bodychecking, Rick Westhead writes.

www.tsn.ca

I think it is inevitable that these changes will be made. Just a matter of time. Could be 5 years, could be 25, but it will happen.

This is probably the most interesting quote. Imo this is the same for tackling.

Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing mate.
My gut is thinking that introducing tackling at that late age might create safety issues of it's own. It's really late to be developing such a core skill and I can't see tackling bags and videos making up the difference.

I think it'd end up having a negative effect on junior participation too. Sounds odd... but I don't think you'd get more parents opting in (as the pathway is still to contact) and you'd lose some of the base. Let's face it, there's plenty out there who put their kids into league because they think it's tough and they're old school in their thinking.

I think Gus mentioned that more HIA's we're occurring with the defenders... Not sure if that's right.

Fwiw, I think it's inevitable too, and necessary, but I don't see it helping the game grow

 

[Capital_Shark]

I think Gus mentioned that more HIA's we're occurring with the defenders... Not sure if that's right.

How many ball carriers do you see left stiff & twitching after hitups compared to defenders collecting shoulders & hips? Its absolutely true IMO.

 

[BurgoShark]

My gut is thinking that introducing tackling at that late age might create safety issues of it's own. It's really late to be developing such a core skill and I can't see tackling bags and videos making up the difference.

This hockey study says otherwise though. No evidence to suggest that early exposure to the contact/technique decreases injuries later on.

There is also mountain of research across many sports that says sport-specific skills don't really matter until you are 16-17. It is counterintuitive I know, but the research says that you are more likely to be good at "sport x" from 17-up if you play multiple sports to develop a range of skills. If you have good flexibility, timing, reaction time, coordination, fitness, strength etc. when you are 16, learning how to tackle is just a small step. Teaching a 12yo kid to tackle when he doesn't have those skills already is... challenging.

There definitely would need to be a staged approach to it, like there is in u8's now. Going from "no tackling" to "everyone tackles at the start of u16's" is not the way to go.

I think it'd end up having a negative effect on junior participation too. Sounds odd... but I don't think you'd get more parents opting in (as the pathway is still to contact) and you'd lose some of the base. Let's face it, there's plenty out there who put their kids into league because they think it's tough and they're old school in their thinking.

It's actually the reverse. When they introduced no-tackle footy in Qld in 2019 for u6-u8, there was a massive social media outcry, and a slight drop in participation for young boys aged 5-6 (which could indicate the "old school" mentality you mentioned) but there was increased participation in boys 7-11, and steady numbers for u12. There was also a 20+ % increase in participation for girls across all ages 5-12.

 

[Capital_Shark]

If you been tackling with technique and honing that from 8 I can't believe you're not gonna be better than the lad who starts at 16.

 

[bort]

This hockey study says otherwise though. No evidence to suggest that early exposure to the contact/technique decreases injuries later on.

The rest of the argument/research aside and I'm no hockey expert but bodycheck seems like a less technical thing to learn than good tackle technique?

In saying that I never had good tackle 'technique' and my defence was pretty good

If you been tackling with technique and honing that from 8 I can't believe you're not gonna be better than the lad who starts at 16.

Double down and play two sports but also learn to tackle

 

[Sparkles]

This hockey study says otherwise though. No evidence to suggest that early exposure to the contact/technique decreases injuries later on.

Interesting. Happy to defer to people who have looked into this with scientific rigour, it's great to see we already have so much research taking place.

There is also mountain of research across many sports that says sport-specific skills don't really matter until you are 16-17. It is counterintuitive I know, but the research says that you are more likely to be good at "sport x" from 17-up if you play multiple sports to develop a range of skills. If you have good flexibility, timing, reaction time, coordination, fitness, strength etc. when you are 16, learning how to tackle is just a small step.

The cross-skills idea defininely feels like it makes sense. Different skills, experiences and perspectives, that sort of thing.

Teaching a 12yo kid to tackle when he doesn't have those skills already is... challenging.

I don't think I would have been able to tackle in the forwards at 18yo if I hadn't grown up doing it... probably due to a lack of the aformentioned... my eyes shut and go to my happy place approach relied purely on muscle memory.

There definitely would need to be a staged approach to it, like there is in u8's now. Going from "no tackling" to "everyone tackles at the start of u16's" is not the way to go.

Seems to work in AusKick for the AFL. My boy can't wait for the grappling(?) next year.

It's actually the reverse. When they introduced no-tackle footy in Qld in 2019 for u6-u8, there was a massive social media outcry, and a slight drop in participation for young boys aged 5-6 (which could indicate the "old school" mentality you mentioned) but there was increased participation in boys 7-11, and steady numbers for u12. There was also a 20+ % increase in participation for girls across all ages 5-12.

I refuse to have QLD'ers represent me in any way.

 

[Sparkles]

The rest of the argument/research aside and I'm no hockey expert but bodycheck seems like a less technical thing to learn than good tackle technique?

In saying that I never had good tackle 'technique' and my defence was pretty good


Double down and play two sports but also learn to tackle

Not sure if you know this, but you're not using full stops anymore...

 

[Sparkles]

The rest of the argument/research aside and I'm no hockey expert but bodycheck seems like a less technical thing to learn than good tackle technique?

In saying that I never had good tackle 'technique' and my defence was pretty good


Double down and play two sports but also learn to tackle

Interestingly, the 'body check' is outlawed in Rugby League as being too dangerous.

 

[Capital_Shark]

Double down and play two sports but also learn to tackle

Bull rider

 

[bort]

I don't think I would have been able to tackle in the forwards at 18yo if I hadn't grown up doing it... probably due to a lack of the aformentioned... my eyes shut and go to my happy place approach relied purely on muscle memory.

That's a good point, with lower participation rates here we have joint U15/16 and U17/18

I played hooker until around U15 when I started playing edge or lock even though I was still one of the smallest kids playing (skinny in particular)
Being a late birthday didn't help either
But Defence was no issue, I was completely used to tackling

The size discrepancy between some Islander 16 year olds (and one big ginger) and scrawny 14 year old me feels like it would have mattered a lot more the later tackling was introduced

Not sure if you know this, but you're not using full stops anymore...

That's because I never fully stop talking ****

 

[BurgoShark]

I don't think I would have been able to tackle in the forwards at 18yo if I hadn't grown up doing it... probably due to a lack of the aforementioned... my eyes shut and go to my happy place approach relied purely on muscle memory.

Probably confidence rather than technique though. If you'd started at 15 do you think you still would have kept up?

I refuse to have QLD'ers represent me in any way.

I'll check again on Nov 1 after you are a Dolphins fan...

The rest of the argument/research aside and I'm no hockey expert but bodycheck seems like a less technical thing to learn than good tackle technique?

I think with hockey it is almost always the player on the receiving end. The argument is that getting used to being hit will lead to less injuries later.

Hockey injuries are exacerbated by other factors too. Ice and plexiglass are not known for their squishiness.

Sports everywhere are getting on board with this though. Hockey start hitting at 14-18, soccer in UK has no headers until 14/15, NFL have introduced flag for younger ages. Rugby League having full contact at 8 years old has become an exception. The Safe Play rules (up to u15) are good idea, but in practice they are not being applied. Maybe it will just take a few more years and a few dinosaurs moving on.

 

[Thresher]

I remember when our high school banned tackle rugby league for a while. A guy knocked himself out during the first game of touch footy.

 

[Sparkles]

Probably confidence rather than technique though. If you'd started at 15 do you think you still would have kept up?

Hard to say. I mean, I was willing to do it at one point. If Dad was there telling me there'd be no Timezone if I didn't try then I would, for sure. There was plenty more technique than talent or brute strength in play, and I could imagine a lot of kids who wouldn't have had the chance to learn would be put off by getting steamrolled and bashed about. Plus I think you need to be conditioned into it, and 15 is a tough age to get that conditioning. The naturally talented kids would probably beat you to a spot too... it'd be pretty disheartening for a lot of kids.

I'll check again on Nov 1 after you are a Dolphins fan...

I am definitely not speaking with Wayne...