2022 NRL General discussion

bort

Jaws
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Maybe, and maybe not. There were 18 other players in that squad whose team couldn't turn them in to a regular NRL player, 20 if you count Dargan and Schonig who were added to the squad later.

Of course those players had "some development" prior to that. They didn't pop out of an egg the day before being signed. The question is how much of that is attributed to the NRL team who had them previously? Maybe Nat Butcher had a fantastic u14 B's coach who put him on the path to success. Maybe he's still pissed off about Butcher missing a game because the Bunnies made him.

Matt Gillett was once cut by the Broncos NYC team because he wanted to go play the local u20's Grand Final with his mates. Broncos said no, he played anyway, so they cut him. I'm going to go ahead and say that the Wests Arana Hills coaches had a fair bit of input in to Gillett's development. No Broncos input required.
And no evidence Roosters could have or would have done anything for those other players in the squad either. Maybe they just ID'd one of/the best guys.

If they had an substantially higher % HM, SG and Flegg (and Qld equivalent) to NRL conversion rate there is an argument to be made.
Until I can see something like that I have no real evidence Roosters can develop a mid to late teen into an NRL player any better than another club.
And even then talent ID plays a big part.

Their pre Rooster development plays some part - different for many different people of course - and that is somewhere Roosters do seem to be weaker with a smaller junior pool (more a region issue than a fault of theirs).

There's also the questions about how relevant the NRL club is to the non-affiliated clubs in the region. Super hard to judge also.
(I have no idea where Arana Hills is, for sake of example it is in Brisbane area) Maybe Arana Hills has that good coach and an attractive team for Matt Gillett to join and stick with league for (important as teen retention can be bad) due to the influence of the Broncos. In that case does it still count as Broncos contributing to his development?

Without any evidence in front of me I can't agree with Gould the Roosters are some powerhouse who deserves extensive credit.
They may well be, I just haven't seen anything concrete.
 

apezza

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And no evidence Roosters could have or would have done anything for those other players in the squad either. Maybe they just ID'd one of/the best guys.

If they had an substantially higher % HM, SG and Flegg (and Qld equivalent) to NRL conversion rate there is an argument to be made.
Until I can see something like that I have no real evidence Roosters can develop a mid to late teen into an NRL player any better than another club.
And even then talent ID plays a big part.

Their pre Rooster development plays some part - different for many different people of course - and that is somewhere Roosters do seem to be weaker with a smaller junior pool (more a region issue than a fault of theirs).

There's also the questions about how relevant the NRL club is to the non-affiliated clubs in the region. Super hard to judge also.
(I have no idea where Arana Hills is, for sake of example it is in Brisbane area) Maybe Arana Hills has that good coach and an attractive team for Matt Gillett to join and stick with league for (important as teen retention can be bad) due to the influence of the Broncos. In that case does it still count as Broncos contributing to his development?

Without any evidence in front of me I can't agree with Gould the Roosters are some powerhouse who deserves extensive credit.
They may well be, I just haven't seen anything concrete.
I think it's all a moot point really. It's more important to have a strong culture that can attract talent and retain them (without having to spend overs). Do that, with a good talent scout to get a variety of players to the club will go a long way to success.
 

Sparkles

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Here is the Australian Schoolboys side that Butcher played in Bort.

24 players

While most of them played an NRL game at some point, just 5 of them went on to debut with and become established players with the team who had them at 18, and only two were still with that team at the start of the 2020 season (5 years later).



**

Tom AMONE
Jayden BRAILEY
Nat BUTCHER
Oliver CLARK
Jack COGGER
Tevita COTTRELL
Tyrell FUIMAONO
Gideon GELA-MOSBY
Regan GRIEVE (R.I.P.)
Keegan HIPGRAVE
Jacob HOST
Robert JENNINGS
Brock LAMB
Luciano LEILUA
Jacob LIDDLE
Latrell MITCHELL

Ashleigh NISBET
John OLIVE
Braden ROBSON
Hame SELE
Bailey SIRONEN
Connor TRACEY
Jayden WALKER
Keenan YORSTON


***

.. and here is the team the following year. Again, this time just 4 players who ended up becoming established players at their current club.

1 Ryan PAPENHUYZEN
2 Tyronne ROBERTS-DAVIS
3 Curtis SCOTT
4 Reuben GARRICK
5 Tre WILLIAMS
6 Nathan CLEARY
7 Scott DRINKWATER
8 Jye CHALLENOR
9 Blayke BRAILEY
10 Jayden BUTTERFIELD
11 Cameron MURRAY
12 Adam KEIGHRAN
13 Reuben COTTER

14 David FAUID
15 Ray STONE
16 Bayley FAULL
17 Daniel VASQUEZ

***

Same story every year. Of the highest-rated players, a handful go on to become regulars for the team that "discovered" them, but the rest move on or never make it.

Seems to me this is a league-wide thing and not a “Roosters” problem. Roosters for Butcher but lost Drinkwater.
Any idea what the average debut age is for first grade? Or the avg age of hitting a decent number of first grade games... there's a few running about now that you wouldn't call 'ready' but are filling injury or form gaps.
 

BurgoShark

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Any idea what the average debut age is for first grade? Or the avg age of hitting a decent number of first grade games... there's a few running about now that you wouldn't call 'ready' but are filling injury or form gaps.
Neil Henry says 21-22.

(Yeah. **** name drop I know).
 

BurgoShark

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And no evidence Roosters could have or would have done anything for those other players in the squad either. Maybe they just ID'd one of/the best guys.

If they had an substantially higher % HM, SG and Flegg (and Qld equivalent) to NRL conversion rate there is an argument to be made.
Until I can see something like that I have no real evidence Roosters can develop a mid to late teen into an NRL player any better than another club.
And even then talent ID plays a big part.

Their pre Rooster development plays some part - different for many different people of course - and that is somewhere Roosters do seem to be weaker with a smaller junior pool (more a region issue than a fault of theirs).

There's also the questions about how relevant the NRL club is to the non-affiliated clubs in the region. Super hard to judge also.
(I have no idea where Arana Hills is, for sake of example it is in Brisbane area) Maybe Arana Hills has that good coach and an attractive team for Matt Gillett to join and stick with league for (important as teen retention can be bad) due to the influence of the Broncos. In that case does it still count as Broncos contributing to his development?

Without any evidence in front of me I can't agree with Gould the Roosters are some powerhouse who deserves extensive credit.
They may well be, I just haven't seen anything concrete.
Yeah. We don’t know what the conversion rate is for any team so it’s really just speculation.

I was moreso addressing your point about defining development than the original “Roosters are beasts at development” convo.

Brisbane is very different btw. Q Cup clubs run development for 15 and under now (which is open to everyone) and rep starts at 16’s which is also Q Cup run. QRL are following the research. ;)
 
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Sparkles

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Neil Henry says 21-22.

(Yeah. **** name drop I know).
Hmm... That's four odd years the Roosters need to put into a player (on average) to make him a first grader. Tips the pendulum in their favour a little
 

Capital_Shark

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I was reading that the NRLW players were hitting out against people "body shaming" players online. I thought they must have been picking on a fat bird but dead set look at the specimen these insecure ****s are tryna bag:
beastbitch.jpg
 

BurgoShark

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In the least surprising news of the year, The Dolphins announce an affiliation with CQ Capras.
 

Sharkmate

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It would be unwise for NRL to move GF to QLD. Yes NSW does not have the money now for ground upgrades as flood victims is a priority, however this will turn around in a few years and honour the agreement. If NRL moves GF then there is no need for state government to invest in these even in a few years time when financial resulting in our grounds going backwards or NRL finding the funds. Queensland have all new grounds.
 

CrazyMatt

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The longer this drags on, the more I think its likely its staying Sydney. I reckon the NRL know they’re not moving it from Sydney and are right now trying to find a way spin the situation to make it look like Vlandy’s hasn’t been mugged off by the NSW Government because they’ve called his bluff. ****ing egos.
 

apezza

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The longer this drags on, the more I think its likely its staying Sydney. I reckon the NRL know they’re not moving it from Sydney and are right now trying to find a way spin the situation to make it look like Vlandy’s hasn’t been mugged off by the NSW Government because they’ve called his bluff. ****ing egos.
Never a chance of leaving Sydney. Penrith wouldn't allow it
 

MrDravid

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So do we now get the privilege of experiencing this circus every year?
 

MrDravid

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Apparently we're going Super Bowl style (highest bidder wins) from next year.

Just saying, be a good way to celebrate the new leagues club opening...
 

bort

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https://www.reddit.com/r/nrl/comments/wns7ht
NRL rich list for this season

Yes, take it with a grain of salt, it may or may not be accurate. Just like every other bit of news and opinion we discuss.
If you don't want to discuss numbers because they aren't from the players mouth so how could anyone know then no stress, otherwise something some might find interesting for reference.

Apparently Riccio says it is pulled together from enough reliable and suitable sources that it is believed to be mostly accurate.
 
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